Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘

[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:59:37 -0700
IIRC CWO MacFarlane, feel free to jump in 21 guns are for Queen, or
Governor/Lieutenant-General. Heads of State get 19 guns. I don‘t believe Pte
Bloggins, or Bdr Jones, or Sgt MacFarlane gets any guns.. we would get the
rifle volleys. Its been awhile, and I didn‘t do many.. any of the Gunners,
or others, feel free...
Ubique
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:48 PM
Subject: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> > If Pte Bloggins catches one, at his formal funeral do we not give a
21
> gun salute?
> Any enlightenment out there?
> Thanks,
> -Matt
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:17:20 -0500
Hi Matt
The "Gun salute" was a naval custom, emptying the live cannon barrels while
out of range to display non-hostile intent read some "Hornblower"
As for funerals, et al.
The Royals get 21 gun salutes.
The Vice Regals Governor Generals et al get 19 gun salutes
Goes down to
Representatives of a Gov/Gen get 17 guns
A Consul General gets 11 guns
A Consular Aent for his country gets five...the lowest on the list
This is 18th/19th century stuff..I know, and back to the "three mile limit",
the range of naval cannon of the day...the Navy of Great Britain, being the
so called "senior Service"...Question to ex servers only...did men with
rocks and/or pointy sticks not hurl or thrust them at one another on land
before they tried it on boats? But anyway imposed it on Land Forces.
Would take a clear night at home and am doing 16 hour days lately...the
reason for this post is I actually got to sleep yesterday...and God be
Praised, my Mom was walking today to go through the General/Admiral ranks.
But having done a number of service men‘s funerals yes, no service women‘s,
but that‘s just how my ‘career‘ unfolded.., they got three rounds of blanks
from the service rifle of the day. And had wide experience, from
Diefenbaker to a Captain youngest ever, as it turned out, dead or alive,
who was a family friend...a CWO, an MWO both good friends..a Pte a Cpl,
and so on...None of the families, or friends, thought three rounds of rifle
fire, as opposed cannon, a come down...it came from the people who served
with them...their friends.
You‘ll understand that a lot better, when you get the chance to have the
camraderie, and service, its not all easy, but once you‘ve done it, you‘ll
"dis-understand" those that either have not, or will not...
John
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:48 PM
Subject: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Alrighty.
> Got a question here for those of you ‘in the know‘ about this sort of
> thing.
> I was reading ‘Reader‘s Digest‘, clumsily leafing through in hopes
of
> finding‘Humour in Uniform‘, it was a mission failed when I stumbled upon
> some info about gun salutes.
> There was a Mr MacFarlane working at a Military Heritage Museumor
> something in/around Ottawa, and he was asked, by Reader‘s Digest, the
> meaning of a gun salute.
> He said, in a nutshell, that to salute was to deliberately display
> defencelessness in the face of a respected superior. So, seeing as
reloading
> weapons formerly was rather time-consuming process, all the men under a
> commander would fire off their rounds, leaving them completely defenceless
to
> the passing Officer/Official, or whatever. From what I understand, if
> somebody‘important‘ was approaching a fortified building, the weapons from
> the castleor whatever would all fire off, once again leaving it
defenceless
> to the incoming personel, as a sign of trust and respect.
> Now, ‘they‘, in Reader‘s Digest, say the people of certain
appointments
> are given a certain number of ‘shots fired‘. The higher the appointment,
the
> more shots, all the way up to 21 for Royalty, or so methinks.
> In no place in the article did it mention anything about gun salutes
for
> fallen troops.
> I was under the impression that if a unit lost a member, they would
> provide a 21 gun salute, in honour of the dead comrade. Is that the
> commercialised, Americanised version of things, or what?
> If Pte Bloggins catches one, at his formal funeral do we not give a 21
> gun salute?
> Any enlightenment out there?
> Thanks,
> -Matt
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[army]

Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:26:32 EST
Rifle Volleys?
That‘s what I thought a 21 gun salute was.
7 men, 3 rounds each.
?????
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[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:33:10 -0700
Sorry. You will learn..... a "gun" is a far different cat, than a
"rifle"..... :-
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Rifle Volleys?
> That‘s what I thought a 21 gun salute was.
> 7 men, 3 rounds each.
> ?????
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[army]

Posted by Juno847627709@aol.com on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:35:04 EST
Thanks, John.
I‘m sure I will.
You said 3 rounds from the rifle of the day for the Average Joe.
Do you actually mean 1 rifle, or a number of them? Gotta use training wheels
for me I guess.
Thanks again,
-Matt
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:46:53 -0500
Well, I saw PF Sgts‘s "training" both Reservists and Cadets by chasing them
around the perimeter of the parade square, FNC1 overhead, **** out, singing
"This is my Rifle, this is my gun..."
Ask Don...s******
But I believe my post to be true, all the same...artillery came to the Navy
quicker, if only because they needed help much more...
And am greatly educated in "guns" and "rifles"...with books to debate
from...-
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "The MacFarlanes‘"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Sorry. You will learn..... a "gun" is a far different cat, than a
> "rifle"..... :-
> MacF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
>
> > Rifle Volleys?
> > That‘s what I thought a 21 gun salute was.
> > 7 men, 3 rounds each.
> > ?????
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:48:46 -0500
Yes, three rounds, together and it takes some practise! from a number of
weapons...
And it sounds empty...
John
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Thanks, John.
> I‘m sure I will.
> You said 3 rounds from the rifle of the day for the Average Joe.
> Do you actually mean 1 rifle, or a number of them? Gotta use training
wheels
> for me I guess.
> Thanks again,
> -Matt
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:07:34 -0500
Wrong!!
Re-read the post
John
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Rifle Volleys?
> That‘s what I thought a 21 gun salute was.
> 7 men, 3 rounds each.
> ?????
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[army]

Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:28:09 -0700
I wonder if some of us aren‘t confusing or overlooking gun salutes with a
feu de joix done with rifles.
Interesting to see the latter done with SMGs on single round rather than
C7s or FN C1s
OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a fire
of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other, ie.
in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular type
of weapon.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Yes, three rounds, together and it takes some practise! from a number of
> weapons...
>
> And it sounds empty...
>
> John
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[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:36:51 -0700
Don‘t they do a similar thing with tanks?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
> OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a
fire
> of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other, ie.
> in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
> dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular
type
> of weapon.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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[army]

Posted by "Bruce Williams" <Williabr@uregina.ca> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:50:53 -0600
Yes they do.
> Don‘t they do a similar thing with tanks?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
>
> >
> > OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a
> fire
> > of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other,
ie.
> > in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
> > dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular
> type
> > of weapon.
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:47:00 -0500
Again, you are right...but then again, t was an anti-tank platoon tasking...
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "The MacFarlanes‘"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Don‘t they do a similar thing with tanks?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
>
> >
> > OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a
> fire
> > of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other,
ie.
> > in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
> > dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular
> type
> > of weapon.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
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> > message body.
> >
>
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[army]

Posted by "John Gow" <jgow@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:55:57 -0500
Excellent reply, Ian.
Unfortunately, only if you‘ve never been the guard on a funeral.
But nice try. Get some time in on the serving men‘s oops! we have Joan on
the Listdo kick our butts, missybring your drill book time...
Really, you are a long way out to lunch on this one.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Edwards"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> I wonder if some of us aren‘t confusing or overlooking gun salutes with
a
> feu de joix done with rifles.
> Interesting to see the latter done with SMGs on single round rather
than
> C7s or FN C1s
>
> OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a
fire
> of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other, ie.
> in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
> dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular
type
> of weapon. Hey Ian, you are firing ball ammo...serving twenty
years...never did that...you must be one of a single happenstance...most of
us 99.999 had Blank firing attachments BFA‘s, so the recoil operating
mechanisms would work...but what the f*** do I know, drill meister?...
Sometimes knowledge comes with age...and somethimes it just doesn‘t come at
all...
You gave Joan your vote.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Gow
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:48 PM
> Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
>
> > Yes, three rounds, together and it takes some practise! from a number
of
> > weapons...
> >
> > And it sounds empty...
> >
> > John
>
>
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[army]

Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:46:48 -0700
Do I look like I‘m a tanker? :-
As far as I recall they dip their gun barrels in a manner somewhat
resembling a sword salute. As if you didn‘t know!
----- Original Message -----
From: The MacFarlanes‘
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Don‘t they do a similar thing with tanks?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
> > OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a
> fire
> > of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other,
ie.
> > in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
> > dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular
> type
> > of weapon.
> >
>
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[army]

Posted by "Ian Edwards" <iedwards@home.com> on Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:53:29 -0700
I don‘t understand, John. As a matter of fact I have been on the guard on a
funeral. Very sad occasion, when one of our members was killed on the
Wainwright grenade range. But at the family‘s request we didn‘t fire a volly
at the cemetary.
But that was 1966 and I haven‘t been a Sr NCO since 1972, so must bow to
your more current membory, but please explain where I was "excellent" and
where I erred, as others may now be confused too.
And yes, I‘ve been in a party firing a feu de joix many times, as have you I
would expect.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Excellent reply, Ian.
>
> Unfortunately, only if you‘ve never been the guard on a funeral.
>
> But nice try. Get some time in on the serving men‘s oops! we have Joan
on
> the Listdo kick our butts, missybring your drill book time...
>
> Really, you are a long way out to lunch on this one.
>
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ian Edwards"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:28 PM
> Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
>
> > I wonder if some of us aren‘t confusing or overlooking gun salutes
with
> a
> > feu de joix done with rifles.
> > Interesting to see the latter done with SMGs on single round rather
> than
> > C7s or FN C1s
> >
> > OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a
> fire
> > of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other,
ie.
> > in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
> > dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular
> type
> > of weapon. Hey Ian, you are firing ball ammo...serving twenty
> years...never did that...you must be one of a single happenstance...most
of
> us 99.999 had Blank firing attachments BFA‘s, so the recoil operating
> mechanisms would work...but what the f*** do I know, drill meister?...
>
> Sometimes knowledge comes with age...and somethimes it just doesn‘t come
at
> all...
>
> You gave Joan your vote.
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Gow
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> >
> >
> > > Yes, three rounds, together and it takes some practise! from a
number
> of
> > > weapons...
> > >
> > > And it sounds empty...
> > >
> > > John
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > NOTE: To remove yourself from this list, send a message
> > to majordomo@CdnArmy.ca from the account you wish to
> > remove, with the line "unsubscribe army-list" in the
> > message body.
>
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[army]

Posted by "Joan O. Arc" <joan_o_arc@hotmail.com> on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 06:10:27 -0000
Ian - Thanks for the explanation! I think maybe I saw this done at the
Edinburgh Tattoo years ago, though maybe not. Saw something that caused
flashes one right after the other up on the ramparts right word??? of the
castle, anyway. Never knew it had a neat French name, though.
- Joan
PS - Some one may have covered this already, but do prime ministers,
premiers, or other elected officials qualify for gun salutes upon death or
is it only regal, vice-regal, and military types? Already the Trudeau
funeral is a distant memory, I‘m afraid. Those blasted memory cells
again...
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ian Edwards"
Reply-To: army-list@CdnArmy.ca
To:
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:28:09 -0700
I wonder if some of us aren‘t confusing or overlooking gun salutes with a
feu de joix done with rifles.
Interesting to see the latter done with SMGs on single round rather than
C7s or FN C1s
OK, for Joan and newbys, the latter if I have it spelled correctly - a fire
of joy consists of each person firing a nano second after each other, ie.
in succession up one rank and down the other. Particularly effective at
dusk, depending on how good is the flash eliminator of that partucular type
of weapon.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gow
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> Yes, three rounds, together and it takes some practise! from a number
of
> weapons...
>
> And it sounds empty...
>
> John
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[army]

Posted by Beth MacFarlane <elljay@nbnet.nb.ca> on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:47:43 -0400
CWO MacFarlane concurs but is going to check his drill book tonight when he gets
home : He did mnetion that he didn‘t think you were supposed to use the BFA‘s
though, which is why he is going to research the whole thing.
Beth
The MacFarlanes‘ wrote:
> IIRC CWO MacFarlane, feel free to jump in 21 guns are for Queen, or
> Governor/Lieutenant-General. Heads of State get 19 guns. I don‘t believe Pte
> Bloggins, or Bdr Jones, or Sgt MacFarlane gets any guns.. we would get the
> rifle volleys. Its been awhile, and I didn‘t do many.. any of the Gunners,
> or others, feel free...
> Ubique
> MacF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:48 PM
> Subject: ‘Gun Salutes‘
>
> > > If Pte Bloggins catches one, at his formal funeral do we not give a
> 21
> > gun salute?
> > Any enlightenment out there?
> > Thanks,
> > -Matt
> > --------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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[army]

Posted by "Mathew Snoddon" <msnoddon@hotmail.com> on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:28:24 -0500
At the risk of replying to a sarcastic comment:
You don‘t use BFA‘s Blank Firing Attachments- It‘s a sort of plug that is
screwed on the barrel to be able to use blank ammunition for the feu de
joie. The drill movement requires you to cock the weapon after each firing.
Matt S
>He did mnetion that he didn‘t think you were supposed to use the >BFA‘s
>though, which is why he is going to research the whole thing.
>Beth
>
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[army]

Posted by "The MacFarlanes‘" <desrtrat@amug.org> on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:07:30 -0700
That was a joke. Many new Gunners in the Artillery, after being exposed to
the BFAs used on small arms, are sent as a gag to the BQMS, the TSM me,
or the BSM, in search of a BFA for the howitzer. I am pretty confident that
almost any of the MacFarlanes - a Bdr, a Capt., and an RSM are full aware
that they really aren‘t required on a howitzer. :-
For Joan, et al., a BFA is required usually for several reasons, when
firing blanks in small arms, for training purposes. They are yellow, and
serve to notify that the weapon is firing blanks, as opposed to real
ammunition. They keep most of the debris created from a blank round from
firing out and hurting others, and they help retain enough gas to assist in
cycling the action. Anyone else jump in, if I missed something. To put it in
perspective, being sent to fetch a BFA for the howitzer is akin to being
asked to retrieve a can of camouflage paint, or a box of frequencies.
Ubique
MacF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mathew Snoddon"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: ‘Gun Salutes‘
> At the risk of replying to a sarcastic comment:
>
> You don‘t use BFA‘s Blank Firing Attachments- It‘s a sort of plug that is
> screwed on the barrel to be able to use blank ammunition for the feu de
> joie. The drill movement requires you to cock the weapon after each
firing.
>
> Matt S
>
> >He did mnetion that he didn‘t think you were supposed to use the >BFA‘s
> >though, which is why he is going to research the whole thing.
> >Beth
> >
>
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[army]

Posted by "Bruce Williams" <Williabr@uregina.ca> on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:42:00 -0600
To put it in
> perspective, being sent to fetch a BFA for the howitzer is akin to being
> asked to retrieve a can of camouflage paint, or a box of frequencies.
> Ubique
> MacF
How about 100 yards or metres now of firing line?
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