Current Dress Regs

[Arty119]

As a former member of the CAF I am completely disgusted with what I am seeing. I was a Battle School Instructor back in the day. Battle School was just that- preparation for what is inevitable. I see members walking around with mullets, red and green hair, and scratchy beards. This is not the military I signed up for. That being said, anyone behind a .50 can still execute the mission if properly trained regardless of what they look like and I tell myself this daily so I don’t lose it. The concept behind short hair and no beards is operational- look it up. Also, Members are public figures and we should be presentable when in public. I know some of you younger Members will say I’m just a crusty old prick and that is what is wrong with the Military. To those I say fuck you. Strap on some Mark II’s and let’s go for a ruck march. Sort yourselves out.

 

[MJP]

 

[Navy_Pete]

As a former member of the CAF I am completely disgusted with what I am seeing. I was a Battle School Instructor back in the day. Battle School was just that- preparation for what is inevitable. I see members walking around with mullets, red and green hair, and scratchy beards. This is not the military I signed up for. That being said, anyone behind a .50 can still execute the mission if properly trained regardless of what they look like and I tell myself this daily so I don’t lose it. The concept behind short hair and no beards is operational- look it up. Also, Members are public figures and we should be presentable when in public. I know some of you younger Members will say I’m just a crusty old prick and that is what is wrong with the Military. To those I say fuck you. Strap on some Mark II’s and let’s go for a ruck march. Sort yourselves out.

Settle down Sandy.

The number of mullets and died hair is pretty minimal, and guessing it will mostly go away when the novelty wears off. And (if the chain of command has a pair) people will be ordered to shave if there are operational reasons.

Morale is bottoming out, shit is busted, and a lot of people will get an effective pay cut this summer, all while we continue to get spread thinner to do even more with even less. If you want to rail energy into something focus on that. Remember the big operational pause we were supposed to get to rebuild? The GoC is directing us to do the opposite.

 

[Furniture]

As a former member of the CAF I am completely disgusted with what I am seeing. I was a Battle School Instructor back in the day. Battle School was just that- preparation for what is inevitable. I see members walking around with mullets, red and green hair, and scratchy beards. This is not the military I signed up for. That being said, anyone behind a .50 can still execute the mission if properly trained regardless of what they look like and I tell myself this daily so I don’t lose it. The concept behind short hair and no beards is operational- look it up. Also, Members are public figures and we should be presentable when in public. I know some of you younger Members will say I’m just a crusty old prick and that is what is wrong with the Military. To those I say fuck you. Strap on some Mark II’s and let’s go for a ruck march. Sort yourselves out.

A few points:

1) Commanders can still order short hair and clean shaves for operational reasons. When I'm sitting in a cubicle in Ottawa working on policy, or conducting inspections to ensure compliance with policy, I don't need to be ready to go to MOPP 4 in 15 seconds.

2) The dress standards were a mess of exceptions and different standards for men and women, the new rules fit that issue.

3) The dress standards were based on what was acceptable in the 1950s, we are no longer living in the 1950's, so the rules should reflect modern society.

I agree that there are a few people walking around who look unprofessional/sloppy, but it's not the norm. I suspect they are pushing the line just to see what they can get away with, or to annoy the people like you and I who think it looks unprofessional. Most will revert back to something closer to the old standards after they get tired of looking like the odd one out.

My guess is that we will see some tightening of the rules over the next couple of years, particularly if the public perception of the CAF suffers because of slovenly looking members.

 

[Arty119]

You obviously were not in the military in the late 80’s. We couldn’t even procure blank rounds for training. I continue to hear it is all your senior leaders that are the problem. That is bullshit. I will leave the Sandy comment alone for now.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You obviously were not in the military in the late 80’s. We couldn’t even procure blank rounds for training.

But you could load up those 113s with Bitburger and Pilsner.

 

[Blackadder1916]

But you could load up those 113s with Bitburger and Pilsner.

A perfect example of "foraging" - the local acquisition of necessary supplies from civilian sources upon payment (without payment it is pillaging). We were following historical practice and being forward thinking. The USMC is now incorporating some basic lessons in their training.

Military Foraging: Historical Practice and Contemporary Advice

Gen. Ulysses S. Grant’s prudent navigation of nascent legal concepts to diminish his force’s reliance on supply lines and forage for provisions enabled battlefield success. Today, Grant’s actions provide a cogent legal blueprint for contemporary military leaders in future operational planning.

www.lawfareblog.com

. . . In modern warfighting posture, when forces deploy forward into austere environments and away from supply depots, maintaining lines of communication becomes increasingly adverse yet equally vital. Accordingly, forces may need to forage, or search for and garner provisions from private or public land, for sustenance in foreign locales to maintain operational capability and presence. . . .

 

[mariomike]

As a former member of the CAF I am completely disgusted with what I am seeing.

This has been debated many times. Of course, it matters if you can do your job.

Maybe that's all that matters to some. Opinions may vary from one extreme to the other.

How you present yourself in public may, or may not, be important to you. That's for you to decide.

It may be old-fashioned, but personally, I think it shows respect for those who support our uniformed services, and the pay, benefits and working conditions they deserve.

Depends if those taxpayers are, or are not, "completely disgusted with what I am seeing."

I don't see enough CAF people in uniform to comment one way, or the other.

 

[JLB50]

This has been argued many times. Of course, it matters if you can do your job.

Maybe that's all that matters to some. Opinions may vary from one extreme to the other.

How you present yourself in public may, or may not, be important to you. That's for you to decide.

It may be old-fashioned, but personally, I think it shows respect for those who support our uniformed services, and the pay, benefits and working conditions they deserve.

Depends if those taxpayers are, or are not, "completely disgusted with what I am seeing."

I don't see enough CAF people in uniform to comment one way, or the other.

Can’t see enough CAF people in uniform? Hmmmm…makes me wonder. Could it be that the Trudeau regime is embarrassed to have a military at all and that the lack of uniforms will contribute to the unpopularity of the Forces?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

You obviously were not in the military in the late 80’s. We couldn’t even procure blank rounds for training. I continue to hear it is all your senior leaders that are the problem. That is bullshit. I will leave the Sandy comment alone for now.

I was. We got stink-eyed by the Korean War vets…

Somethings were better: somethings were worse. Mostly, it was different. I recall really long hair, stuffed up under berets; big sideburns and porn ‘staches. This whole “high and tight” hair cut thing is relatively recent. Before WW1, literally no one cared what your hair looked like. Trench warfare changed that for hygiene reasons. And I can about guarantee that if we go someplace where hygiene requires short hair, short hair it will be.

But, as a private citizen, if you do not like what you see, feel free to write a letter to your MP and the MND with your complaints. If enough people complain, the politicians will listen.

 

[dimsum]

Can’t see enough CAF people in uniform? Hmmmm…makes me wonder. Could it be that the Trudeau regime is embarrassed to have a military at all and that the lack of uniforms will contribute to the unpopularity of the Forces?

Uh, no.

No one is telling folks not to wear uniforms to/from work. They are also not telling people to wear them to/from work. All the CoCs care about is that you wear a uniform while at work (unless on Fri in the NCR...)

Not everything is a conspiracy directed from the PMO. Sometimes folks just want to commute in civies because it's more comfortable and we don't want to sweat through our DEUs before getting to the office.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It is also a commonly misunderstood point that because hair grooming standards have relaxed, the uniform maintenance standards have as well. A few people where I work have found out, to their detriment, that an unkempt uniform will still get you an invitation to the Chief’s Office (or DCO for Officers…).

 

[dimsum]

Can CAF members be asked to shave their facial hair?


Yes, Commanders of Commands, Task Force Commanders, Formation Commanders and Commanding Officers retain the right to order restrictions on the wearing of facial hair to meet safety and operational requirements. This instruction does not supersede Federal or National safety codes or regulations.

That should answer your question about facial hair.

This is not the military I signed up for.

Nope, it is not...and frankly it doesn't matter if it is or it isn't.

As someone looking pretty close to the 25-year mark, I know that the military of 2060 won't be the same as the military of 2000 or 2023. Many things have changed since I joined in the early 2000s and each one had a bunch of pearl-clutchers claiming the professionalism is gone because of beards, marijuana, women onboard ships, whatever.

What matters is whether it should be the military that reflects what Canada should be at the time, not what people signed up for when they did.

 

[Furniture]

Uh, no.

No one is telling folks not to wear uniforms to/from work. They are also not telling people to wear them to/from work. All the CoCs care about is that you wear a uniform while at work (unless on Fri in the NCR...)

Not everything is a conspiracy directed from the PMO. Sometimes folks just want to commute in civies because it's more comfortable and we don't want to sweat through our DEUs before getting to the office.

I don't wear my uniform to and from work because I don't enjoy being stared at by people on the bus, and because my uniform (3B) will become wrinkled by wear before I set foot in the office.

 

[Quirky]

The number of mullets and died hair is pretty minimal, and guessing it will mostly go away when the novelty wears off.

Couple dudes did the purple hair thing but got bullied and harassed by the locals (civies in town) constantly. They went back to their normal hair color shortly after. CAF might be accommodating but society will tell you how they really feel.

 

[mariomike]

Can’t see enough CAF people in uniform?

No. I said, "I don't see".

Probably because there is not a Base in my neighborhood.

As others have mentioned, not everyone ( myself included ) wears their work clothes / uniform to and from work.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

@Arty119

You served in a different CAF, much like everyone else who has joined at different points in time.

I am pretty certain your standard of dress and grooming would have been abhorrent to a soldier from 1942, or 1902, or 1812

Did you maintain a moustache as required prior to 1916? Master rifle drill with your Snider-Enfield? No powdered wig and breeches? I'm certain a Sergeant Major from 1867 would have lost in on you for wearing khaki into battle vice the Scarlets of old.

Societies evolve, acceptable dress and grooming standards evolve, and thus so do military dress and grooming standards.

Thank you for your service, but this isn't going to affect you unless you let it.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Couple dudes did the purple hair thing but got bullied and harassed by the locals (civies in town) constantly. They went back to their normal hair color shortly after. CAF might be accommodating but society will tell you how they really feel.

Similarly, bad moustaches in November are self correcting, because partners/prospective partners aren't blind. Similarly the same will happen with most mullets and dyed hair.

We don't make NHL money for hockey hair to be okay.

And @Arty119 the number of times I've been in a ship where people are yelling 'bang' for a weapons firing is sadly not zero, so things are just a different kind of bad. Legitimately not buying replacements for safety critical equipment that we use regularly for day to day issues to replace the items for the CAF because budget cuts, and no idea if the roll out that is already 3-5 years delayed will get bumped again. But I guess people will just touch things to see if they are hot in a fire or feel around for casualties instead of using TICs.

 

[daftandbarmy]

@Arty119

You served in a different CAF, much like everyone else who has joined at different points in time.

I am pretty certain your standard of dress and grooming would have been abhorrent to a soldier from 1942, or 1902, or 1812

Did you maintain a moustache as required prior to 1916? Master rifle drill with your Snider-Enfield? No powdered wig and breeches? I'm certain a Sergeant Major from 1867 would have lost in on you for wearing khaki into battle vice the Scarlets of old.

Societies evolve, acceptable dress and grooming standards evolve, and thus so do military dress and grooming standards.

Thank you for your service, but this isn't going to affect you unless you let it.

Or unless you see something like this

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Or unless you see something like this

I'm certain, with or without HAIRFORGEN, if we left the RCAF to their own devices long enough this would be the norm.