5D Release

[exfirefighter]

Sorry to bother you guys again, does anyone know how often the Chief of defense Staff looks at and makes a decision on these "Waiver"s?

 

[agc]

That I'm not sure of exactly, sorry.  He's a pretty busy guy, so it doesn't happen over night.

 

[The_Falcon]

Sorry to bother you guys again, does anyone know how often the Chief of defense Staff looks at and makes a decision on these "Waiver"s?

Don't quit you day job, it may be a while.  Think logically, its the CHIEF OF DEFENSE STAFF, he has much bigger things to worry about (like I don't know running the CF) than looking at the handful of 5d/5f waivers that get sent up.

Edit to add, your recruiter already told you the answer, coming on here to find a different answer isn't going to happen. 

 

[Durga]

Hey, I just figured I would tag my question along in here. I was at basic last fall and failed my fitness test because I'll be honest I didn't prepare hard enough. I was released 5D as well, does anyone know if the same waiver applies if a 5D was for fitness? The warrent at CFLRS said it would not affect reenrolement but now I'm getting worried.

 

[The_Falcon]

Hey, I just figured I would tag my question along in here. I was at basic last fall and failed my fitness test because I'll be honest I didn't prepare hard enough. I was released 5D as well, does anyone know if the same waiver applies if a 5D was for fitness? The warrent at CFLRS said it would not affect reenrolement but now I'm getting worried.

I would tell you to search, but since your own words, indicate that you have a penchant for failing to prepare (which is why you were booted, not because your fitness sucked, but because by your own admission you failed to properly take the steps to ensure you would succeed, which tends to be a bigger issue.), I am providing the information for you.  The WO at CFLRS was either misinformed or didn't care what your release item was.  If you were released 5(d) then you require a CDS waiver to re-enrol.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-1-eng.asp

Former Service in the CF, Other Military Force or RCMP

In accordance with QR&O article 6.02, Action Prior to Enrolment of Persons with Former Service, an applicant with former service in the CF, any other military force or the RCMP is required to:

state the particulars of that service;
state the cause of their release; and
produce their release papers.
In accordance with QR&O paragraphs 6.01(2) and (4), unless special authority is personally obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS), an applicant with former service shall not be enrolled if released:

as medically unfit;
for inefficiency;
with a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act; or
for misconduct.
For applicants with former CF service, the above includes any release from the CF under Item 1 (misconduct), 2 (unsatisfactory service), 3(a) (medically unfit for further service), 5(d) (not advantageously employable) or 5(f) (unsuitable for further service) of the Table to QR&O article 15.01, Release of Officers and Non-Commissioned Member. For applicants with former service in any other military force or the RCMP, the above includes any reason analogous to one of these Items.

Note – All previous CDS orders, instructions and authorizations that provided authority for officers subordinate to the CDS to authorize the enrolment of applicants with former service have been revoked.

 

[sgt_stewart]

Thought I would weigh in on this one. I am going through something very similar right now. I was released on a 5F from the PRES, which I didn't know about until my VFS came back. I followed all the steps when releasing. I went through the chain of command, told my RSM at the time that I couldn't parade. Handed my kit in, signed all the paperwork, hands shook. Mugged out by my BSM and not the RSM, who was in the mess at the time. Prick didn't like me. Basically he didn't let the Orderly Room know I couldn't parade. He is now dead, how unfortunate.

Fast forward 15 years. I spent 3 months getting all my docs together, had a officer board at the unit, they really want me back supported by a letter from the CO. CFRC told me after 5 months of trying to find my personal file that the 5F needed to be reversed. The career officer at the recruiting centre tells me that 5F's are looked at very carefully and are generally unfavourable and they know that most of them are a mistake and the mean squat. So the next step is that it has to go to CFRHQ and if it is successful it goes to Ottawa. The process so far has taken 10 months.

I completely understand that things take time. When the waiver gets to Ottawa and the CDS's office, I don't believe that Walt himself will look at it personally. It will be one of his staff officers.

Hope this sheds some light on your dilemma.

 

[The_Falcon]

I completely understand that things take time. When the waiver gets to Ottawa and the CDS's office, I don't believe that Walt himself will look at it personally. It will be one of his staff officers.

One of his subordinates probably gives him the synopsis, but the DAOD is clear in that he is the only one who is going to sign off on it.

 

[The_Falcon]

We just had new directive come out straight from the CDS regarding re-enrolment waivers for unfavourable releases (such as 5d 5f). 

The basic gist of it is

1)  Due to reduced operational needs, smaller SIP and a higher number of people seeking waivers, CFRG shall only forward waiver requests to the CDS under EXCEPTIONAL circumstances.

2) Exceptional circumstances mean, from the time of release to application, you the applicant have shown a consistent high achievement, and maturity in what ever it is you have been doing since you released. 

The are more details obviously (and no I won't put them here).  But the basic take away is, if you are just looking for a second kick at the can, and you have basically had a mediocre history in the inbetween, CFRG has been told not to waste the CDS' time looking at your file. 

 

[ZacLeChasseur]

Hi,

When I left the reserve in 07, they gave me a 5d ( because apparently thats what they were giving, it was a voluntary release, not during a course, etc)

What I want to know is : Will I need the CDS to sign my application to go in the Reg (rtop, deo) like in the reserve or is it different if I do my application for the Reg ?

Thanks and sorry for my english.....

 

[The_Falcon]

Hi,

When I left the reserve in 07, they gave me a 5d ( because apparently thats what they were giving, it was a voluntary release, not during a course, etc)

What I want to know is : Will I need the CDS to sign my application to go in the Reg (rtop, deo) like in the reserve or is it different if I do my application for the Reg ?

Thanks and sorry for my english.....

This is covered in a thread on this sub-forum, granted its near the bottom, and would take a bit of effort to look down (or search for that matter).  DAOD 5002-1 is your reference, read that, read the other thread.  In short you are in for a LOOONGGG wait. 

 

[aesop081]

they gave me a 5d ( because apparently thats what they were giving, it was a voluntary release, not during a course, etc)

A 5(d) release is not something given out just because "that's what they were giving". You already started a thread about your 5(d) so regardless of why you were released with this item, the fact is that you were released 5(d). So we have a frame of reference, that item means:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qro-orf/vol-01/chapter-chapitre-015-eng.asp

(d) Not Advantageously Employable

Applies to the release of an officer or non-commissioned member:

because of an inherent lack of ability or aptitude to meet military classification or trade standards; or

who is unable to adapt to military life; or

who, either wholly or chiefly because of the conditions of military life or other factors beyond his control, develops personal weaknesses or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces.

DAOD 5002-1 provides direction for your situation:
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-1-eng.asp

In accordance with QR&O paragraphs 6.01(2) and (4), unless special authority is personally obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS), an applicant with former service shall not be enrolled if released:

as medically unfit;

for inefficiency;

with a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act; or

for misconduct.

For applicants with former CF service, the above includes any release from the CF under Item 1 (misconduct), 2 (unsatisfactory service), 3(a) (medically unfit for further service), 5(d) (not advantageously employable) or 5(f) (unsuitable for further service) of the Table to QR&O article 15.01, Release of Officers and Non-Commissioned Member. For applicants with former service in any other military force or the RCMP, the above includes any reason analogous to one of these Items.

Yes, you will need the approval of the CDS.

 

[aesop081]

This is covered in a thread on this sub-forum,

This one ?

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/106325/post-1149791.html#msg1149791

 

[The_Falcon]

This one ?

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/106325/post-1149791.html#msg1149791

No this one http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103716.0.html   But good to see in almost 3 months, the OP didn't learn to use the search function.

 

[Sapper659]

Hello there

I'm brand new to this site so please forgive me if similar threads already exist.

Here's my story;

I joined the regular forces in January 2002 as an infantry officer. I was 21 at the time and didn't have a degree. I think my entry program was CEOTP or something like that. I had to finish my degree part time over my 9 year contract.

I did BOTC at St-Jean and graduated in May 2002. I then went to Gagetown and did CAP, I managed to pass. Then I went on phase III infantry in winter 2003 and failed during the last week. I didn't deserve to pass anyway so I won't dwell on that. I asked for an appointment with the BPSO and he basically told me that I couldn't do anything else since I didn't have a degree. So I was recoursed and went to University part-time for the summer and fall. I re-did phase III infantry in winter 2004 and got hurt during the 5th week. I met the BPSO again and tried to get a transfer. I even asked if I could go NCO and once again, I was stuck and couldn't do anything. I went to university part-time again during fall 2004.

I submitted my release in january 2005. My reason was that I wanted to finish my degree and that I wasn’t a good person military-wise (yeah I know, stupid me). I got accepted at Bishop's University and my semester was starting on the 3rd of September 2005.

In late July I finally received my release package which stated that I was to be released under item 5d)

5d) Not Advantageously Employable:  “who, either wholly or chiefly because of the conditions of military life or other factors beyond his control, develops personal weaknesses or has domestic or other personal problems that seriously impair his usefulness to or impose an excessive administrative burden on the Canadian Forces".

The platoon 2IC told me that I could fill a "complaint" (there was a specific name for that document but I can't remember it). But of course, doing so was gonna push my release date and I was 6 weeks away from starting university, so I signed to thing and officially got released on the 7th of august 2005.

I graduated with a major in psychology and a minor in Spanish. After I graduated, I taught English in South Korea for a year. I then travelled over 3 continents for 5 months. I’m 29 now and I work as a social worker. I speak French, English and Spanish fluently (French being my mother tongue), and I can also get by in Korean. I’m healthy, in good physical shape, no criminal record and my credit is good.

I re-applied as an Intelligence officer for the navy reserve a few weeks ago. All of my tests went well and I didn’t have to redo the aptitude test because it was still valid and I qualified for every trade.

However, during the interview, the captain (a vandoo guy) told me that my file had to go to Ottawa to get an “enrolment exemption” due to my 5d release (exemption d'enrôlement dû à votre libération 5D). He told me that I had a really good interview and strongly suggested that I’d be re-enrolled, but that’s only what he said, doesn’t mean much in the military world I know that.

So anyone could tell me what my chances are? Anyone had a similar story?

Cheers

Dude your story is extreme, i have witnessed your story first hand in recruit school and have heard of many ppl getting the same fate. however i wouldnt bother trying to get into the CF after all this stuff that happend. plus these instructors are the front lines of defense to the military they have to make decsions based on your actons and obviously you made a bad impression but really man who cares move to alberta get a job on the rigs and make a boat load of money that is the best advice i can give you right now. Just stay away from the CF or police.

 

[mariomike]

<snip> that is the best advice i can give you right now.

The Original Poster has not been active here lately.

Last Active: April 27, 2012

 

[srvn2sv]

My situation. 

5D in 1989 at age 19.  Now 44, a veteran paramedic applying as a semi-skilled Med Tech.  Medical, interview, PLAR, references, CFAT all done and passed without issue.  Now waiting on 5D re-enrolment waiver.

What is the likelihood that the CDS will accept my 25 years of personal and professional growth and my semi-skilled (I am exempt from most of the QL3) status and grant a waiver?

This topic's has been quiet for almost a year and I'm looking for newer intel if it exists.

Thank you.

 

[ghander]

my story is similar to some of the ones posted here. i was released on a 5d in 1995 for "chronic personal problems that brought discredit to the force". translation: i was an immature jerk who partied too much. i loved the army though, and thrived off of the challenges both mental and physical. boot camp was incredible & i still have the twin scars on my elbows from the leopard crawl. my troop was awesome. but i was 22/23 undisciplined and just didnt know how to be a social drinker. one night i got into a bar fight and was charged with assault, this is the straw that broke the camel's back and my CO met with me and let me know i was getting close to being in real trouble. the whole way of it, the unit leadership was trying to reach me but i was just too immature. they even said i could appeal the 5d, but something in me knew i wasnt ready so i let it go. its been 20 years and ive long since worked the wild oats out of my system and my life has been highly positive. ive matured and learned how to take responsibility for my own behavior and choices, ive earned several degrees and basically leveled out to be a productive, contributing member of society. ive played team sports like rugby and football as well as soccer along the way and learned a lot about teamwork and being responsible not just for myself, but for respecting my role as part of a team & respecting the collective goals of the team. now i am wanting to re-enlist because im about to graduate with my master's degree and have always had a special place in my heart for the army. i feel that i am in a far better place & have a whole lot more to offer to the CF than i did when i was in my erly 20s....i have contacted a recruiter about learning more around the issue of 5d re-enrolment but haven't heard back yet so i thought id post here and see what others have to say about the situation.

thanks for your time

 

[MAJONES]

The PSO at the recruiting centre can apply for a waiver to re-enrole you, if you can convince said PSO that you really are a new you.  At least that is how it worked when I was in recruiting 7 years ago.

 

[Jay4th]

Hello, I am looking for some advice.  Trying to administer a student that has trains running on several different tracks and I don't know which train he should get on.

-Less than 1 yr in CAF
-submitted a memo for a VR
-has a PCAT pending unfit op environment (addiction issues)
-just recieved notice of a 5d release (missing too much school, unlikely to ever be able to succeed)

Member is concerned that he will not be able to access addiction treatment and counselling after VR or 5d.
5d happens uber fast around here if student does not object.
I recommended to my CofC that he be assigned an assisting Officer right away as he only has 14 days to make objections if he wants to.
Are any of these trains on a collision course with each other?  ie) is the pending PCAT a barrier to a 5d ?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[ModlrMike]

A PCAT for addiction issues would lead me to two broad conclusions:

1. this was a pre-enrollment condition; or
2. he was unwilling to undertake treatment.

It is highly unusual for someone with less that one year of service to wind up on a PCAT for what should be a correctable issue.