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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Guess it would really stuck if a majority government did agree to it. If that's the way it works?
Like different voting systems that would lead to nobody getting majorities, I'd bet my loonie on none of the parties wanting to change the laws/rules to loose control of nomination processes, even if they would become more secure, so to speak. Who wants to give away power?
 
Like different voting systems that would lead to nobody getting majorities, I'd bet my loonie on none of the parties wanting to change the laws/rules to loose control of nomination processes, even if they would become more secure, so to speak. Who wants to give away power?

Looking at other countries with alternate systems do we want them to give away power?

And how long does it take the power brokers to figure out how to game the new system?
 
So last week the LPC and the NDP went DEFCON A (Abortion) on the premise of 47 signatures on a private members bill warrants the claim that this spells the end of a women's right to choose. As Jenn and Matt at the Line says, it seems to be very early for the "progressives" to trot out this trop so early.


Since the Morgentaler decision in the last century the Liberals have had ample opportunity to enshrine abortion rights into law but have failed to do so. Why?

Also the Conservatives under Mulroney and Harper have had majority governments that could have pushed limits to abortion but have never done so. Why?

Well for the Liberals, why would they pass an abortion rights law and lose their most effective cudgel to beat their political opponents over the head when their election prospects seem dim?

And the conservatives know in their heart of hearts that the abortion file is a lose lose proposition for them. Yes they can keep the path for private members bills to placate their social conservative wing (that despite bleating from the NDP and Libs is not in ascendance) but they know they'd be dead meat if a conservative cabinet ever considered an abortion limitation bill. But that is the price they need to pay to keep their coalition together, and the LPC/NDP will use that "hidden agenda" threat whenever they need to.

So IMHO the Liberals are assholes here because they go on and on about how they are feminists but have done nothing to enshrine access to abortions, or to help the provinces improve access to abortions.
 
So last week the LPC and the NDP went DEFCON A (Abortion) on the premise of 47 signatures on a private members bill warrants the claim that this spells the end of a women's right to choose. As Jenn and Matt at the Line says, it seems to be very early for the "progressives" to trot out this trop so early.


Since the Morgentaler decision in the last century the Liberals have had ample opportunity to enshrine abortion rights into law but have failed to do so. Why?
Likely because of the successful charter challenge. No need to create a law that by default exists. As to enshrining it as a right spelled out, probably because of the procedural nightmare to get it done.
Also the Conservatives under Mulroney and Harper have had majority governments that could have pushed limits to abortion but have never done so. Why?
Mulroney did try after the decision. Twice. The senate shot down the last try and they opted not to push their luck given the other issues they had going on.
Well for the Liberals, why would they pass an abortion rights law and lose their most effective cudgel to beat their political opponents over the head when their election prospects seem dim?
Possible sure. It certainly gives them bait and fodder. But the simple fact is no law is required.
And the conservatives know in their heart of hearts that the abortion file is a lose lose proposition for them. Yes they can keep the path for private members bills to placate their social conservative wing (that despite bleating from the NDP and Libs is not in ascendance) but they know they'd be dead meat if a conservative cabinet ever considered an abortion limitation bill. But that is the price they need to pay to keep their coalition together, and the LPC/NDP will use that "hidden agenda" threat whenever they need to.
The rational ones do. The ones that want to stand on principle don’t care and will try (private members bills etc) and as long as they do they will be giving ammo to their opponents.
So IMHO the Liberals are assholes here because they go on and on about how they are feminists but have done nothing to enshrine access to abortions, or to help the provinces improve access to abortions.
Again, no need to enshrine any laws.

The thing is, that PP made a statement about using the not withstanding clause if he gets elected to make things “constitutional”. When he was asked if he would use it on other things beyond crime and punishment, he did his normal evade the question and didn’t answer. So of course the media highlighted that and only after it started causing damage did the CPC come out and say that it was only as far crime and punishment and nothing else. But by then the LPC seized on the opportunity.

This whole thing was an own goal. Saying you will use the not withstanding clause for whatever to get whatever passed was not wise. The LPC might have been a holes here but the CPC shots themselves in the foot, as per.
 
This whole thing was an own goal. Saying you will use the not withstanding clause for whatever to get whatever passed was not wise. The LPC might have been a holes here but the CPC shots themselves in the foot, as per.
I guess we want to see what we want to see. And why is the not withstanding clause in the constitution if it is not going to be use (which the Quebec Government routinely does without out any pearl clutching from the LPC)

I've been watching LPC hypocrisy since I was a wee child during the Trudeau Pere years. I just find it amusing that they are not called out on their bullshit more often.
 
I guess we want to see what we want to see.
Not at all. This is pretty cut and dry on how this came to be. The LPC was waiting for a chance to use the abortion issue and the CPC gave them an opening. Whether it works or not is another issue. It has worked before though which is likely why they took the opportunity.
And why is the not withstanding clause in the constitution if it is not going to be use (which the Quebec Government routinely does without out any pearl clutching from the LPC)
Just because something is in the rules doesn’t mean you use it. Or abuse it. The QC government does use it and it does get criticized for it. Basically it allows you to do what you want even though it breaks rules and violates rights. The reason it was included was as a compromise to the provinces.

No federal government has ever used it.
I've been watching LPC hypocrisy since I was a wee child during the Trudeau Pere years. I just find it amusing that they are not called out on their bullshit more often.
They are called on it quite a bit. Just depends on what and where you look for it.
 
Whether it works or not is another issue. It has worked before though which is likely why they took the opportunity.
Usually they wait until a crucial point during the election. That they are doing it so far out speaks of their desperation.

This is a change election coming up and unless Pierre defecates on the Canadian Flag in front of the Centennial Flame on Parliament Hill, he's got it in the bag. But there is also a warning, he's got 8-10 years max until its time to throw him out, because if a photogenic, LPC Royalty figure gets only 10 then PP has an even shorter lifespan IMO.
 
Usually they wait until a crucial point during the election. That they are doing it so far out speaks of their desperation.
The timing question is a valid one. But why now? It could be they want to frame him early and often. The next faux pas, the next mistake helps to reinforce it. They won’t wait until campaign time. And yes they are bottom of the barrel so with nothing to lose. My guess is you will see a summer of MPs spreading that narrative. They may be trying to put the CPC and PP on the defensive and on explain mode and take them of their bread and butter messaging.
This is a change election coming up and unless Pierre defecates on the Canadian Flag in front of the Centennial Flame on Parliament Hill, he's got it in the bag.
Possibly but fortunes can change. Trudeau went from 3rd to PM in 2015. Different times I get it. I’m of the same opinion that if he stays it won’t matter what happens but events can happen. And if he steps down, his replacement will use the same attacks they are using now.
But there is also a warning, he's got 8-10 years max until its time to throw him out, because if a photogenic, LPC Royalty figure gets only 10 then PP has an even shorter lifespan IMO.
He really needs a majority, anything less will put him in a precarious position.
 
Not at all. This is pretty cut and dry on how this came to be. The LPC was waiting for a chance to use the abortion issue and the CPC gave them an opening. Whether it works or not is another issue. It has worked before though which is likely why they took the opportunity.
👍🏼

Perhaps PP noted Notwithstanding on purpose to draw the LPC into it?

As much as that would please me, I’m not convinced that PP operates at that level…yet… 🤔
 
The Conservatives will likely run the same play they have been. Stick to their message and basically ignore all the barbs and challenges trudeau throws at them. So far, they all lose steam within a week or two and then drop to minor talking points. If pressed PP will just give a quick short restatement of their policy and move on. Trudeau has been trying to draw him into a pissing contest, but he won take the bait.
 
You realize the people in the convoy were Canadians, right?
In other news, Alberta police learned from the Ottawa occupation not to allow encampments to get too comfortable.

 
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