Future Armour

[Spencer100]

From this

to this

to

to this

With a couple of stops with these

To this

But then what is old is new again!

and

The Polaris is about the size of the first Jeeps


It was fun just to go through the progression from WWII, I know there are more some some dead ends too.

For Canada add

 

[daftandbarmy]

From this

to this

to
View attachment 75765
to this

With a couple of stops with these

View attachment 75766

To this

But then what is old is new again!
View attachment 75767
and

The Polaris is about the size of the first Jeeps


It was fun just to go through the progression from WWII, I know there are more some some dead ends too.

For Canada add
View attachment 75768

And don't forget the amazingly successful 'Toyota War'. Go Chad!

The Toyota War (Arabic: حرب تويوتا, romanized: Ḥarb Tūyūtā, French: Guerre des Toyota) or Great Toyota War[9] was the last phase of the Chadian–Libyan conflict, which took place in 1987 in Northern Chad and on the Libyan–Chadian border. It takes its name from the Toyota pickup trucks used, primarily the Toyota Hilux and the Toyota Land Cruiser, to provide mobility for the Chadian troops as they fought against the Libyans, and as technicals.[10] The 1987 war resulted in a heavy defeat for Libya, which, according to American sources, lost one tenth of its army, with 7,500 men killed and US$1.5 billion worth of military equipment destroyed or captured.[11] Chadian forces only suffered 1,000 deaths.[8]

The war began with the Libyan occupation of northern Chad in 1983, when Libya's leader Muammar Gaddafi, refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the Chadian President Hissène Habré, militarily supported the attempt by the opposition Transitional Government of National Unity (GUNT) to overthrow Habré. The plan was foiled by the intervention of France which, first with Operation Manta and later with Operation Epervier, limited Libyan expansion to north of the 16th parallel, in the most arid and sparsely inhabited part of Chad.[12]

Toyota War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RangerRay]

Don’t forget the Long Range Desert Group!

 

[Spencer100]

Don’t forget the Long Range Desert Group!

View attachment 75770

One up you then. the RAF armoured car corp even older
The Fordson

The Rolls Royce

I guess the take away is up armouring up and gunning trucks and car to fight in Iraq and the deserts is the way.....for over a 100 years. The up armoured Humvee is not really all that different to the RR of the 1922.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Those COA criteria start circling back on one another after a while. Mobility and Speed provide a kind of Security/Survivability of their own: You can get eyes and guns on faster than a lumbering column.

Interesting to see where this goes.

 

[FJAG]

Those COA criteria start circling back on one another after a while. Mobility and Speed provide a kind of Security/Survivability of their own: You can get eyes and guns on faster than a lumbering column.

Interesting to see where this goes.

I've always been a fan of the light and open concept as witnessed by this photo of a FOO course I ran back in the 1970s.


Unfortunately the Iltis issues we had in Afghanistan and the same issues the Brits had with Land Rovers and, to an extent, the American unarmoured HMMWV, made it a political touchpoint. It would take a very brave commander (outside of the SOF community) to bring these light vehicles back into play.

I'm actually very surprised that the ISV has gained traction in the States. Despite their limitations, I'm a fan but I'm probably in a minority.

 

[KevinB]

METT-TC

Mission
Execution
Terrain and Weather
Troops

Time Available
Civilian Considerations.



Certain missions are going to be best suited for Light fast mobile units. Others suited to Heavier Forces. Having a wide range of forces allow one the most flexibility for mission planning and the greatest chances for success.

If all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail…

 

[Spencer100]

I've always been a fan of the light and open concept as witnessed by this photo of a FOO course I ran back in the 1970s.

View attachment 75790
Unfortunately the Iltis issues we had in Afghanistan and the same issues the Brits had with Land Rovers and, to an extent, the American unarmoured HMMWV, made it a political touchpoint. It would take a very brave commander (outside of the SOF community) to bring these light vehicles back into play.

I'm actually very surprised that the ISV has gained traction in the States. Despite their limitations, I'm a fan but I'm probably in a minority.

Kind of point in pics

With the ISV being built by GM Defense things could really get interesting on the cost side. There bid was very competitive. The JLTV manufacturing rebid will be having everyone sharpen their pencils.

 

[Kirkhill]

I've always been a fan of the light and open concept as witnessed by this photo of a FOO course I ran back in the 1970s.

View attachment 75790
Unfortunately the Iltis issues we had in Afghanistan and the same issues the Brits had with Land Rovers and, to an extent, the American unarmoured HMMWV, made it a political touchpoint. It would take a very brave commander (outside of the SOF community) to bring these light vehicles back into play.

I'm actually very surprised that the ISV has gained traction in the States. Despite their limitations, I'm a fan but I'm probably in a minority.

But..... I'm horrified.

Where's the roll cage?
Where are the seat belts?
And the poor bugger in the back.... does he have an actual seat?

 

[FJAG]

But..... I'm horrified.

Where's the roll cage?
Where are the seat belts?
And the poor bugger in the back.... does he have an actual seat?

Roll cages didn't come into play until a few years into the M152 which had a penchant for rolling.

Did a BoI around that time into a M38 106 jeep that rolled on the Trans Canada with two fatalities. Roll cages have their uses.

 

[Kirkhill]

Roll cages didn't come into play until a few years into the M152 which had a penchant for rolling.

Did a BoI around that time into a M38 106 jeep that rolled on the Trans Canada with two fatalities. Roll cages have their uses.

Fond memory

Driving from Mewata to Currie barracks in January in the snow on a Friday night in an open top M152 in a parka. (Those old parrkas were great if they weren't wet.).

I was rushing to catch a chinook to Wainwright. Arrived to discover the ride was cancelled and the Highlanders had been bussed up. I drove up in my PMV and on arrival at about 21:00 got assigned OPI and Butts Party Officer for my efforts.

 

[Rifleman62]

Did a BoI around that time into a M38 106 jeep that rolled on the Trans Canada with two fatalities. Roll cages have their uses.

I remember that. A FGH trooper and a Rifleman. Newly qualified on a jeep but not one modified for the 106. There was another BoI and an apology from Minister. I did the funerals.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I seem to recall one or two things about the accident.through age dimmed memory , one was that a W/O ignored or overrode the troopers.protests that he was was unqualified to drive that particular vehicle sub type .
And that was at I believe that it took place fairly close to where I was living at the time.

 

[BrianWL]

I seem to recall one or two things about the accident.through age dimmed memory , one was that a W/O ignored or overrode the troopers.protests that he was was unqualified to drive that particular vehicle sub type .
And that was at I believe that it took place fairly close to where I was living at the time.

near Moosomin SK, east Saskatchewan........

 

[GK .Dundas]

OK , it's official the dementia is kicking in . Thought it happened not long after they'd gotten into Winnipeg.

 

[FJAG]

I remember that. A FGH trooper and a Rifleman. Newly qualified on a jeep but not one modified for the 106. There was another BoI and an apology from Minister. I did the funerals.

There was no special qualification required for a 106 jeep. The accident was a pure accident. A packet had pulled over for a halt on the road and as they started up a vehicle pulled onto the road and the jeep driver steered hard to avoid it. It was one of those steering while braking issues where the weight transfers to the one front axle and the wheel digs in.

 

[Kirkhill]

The Case For Turning Cybertruck Into A Militarized Unmanned Ground Vehicle

Cybertruck may be controversial, but it has an uncanny mix of features that could make it an incredibly cost-effective militarized drone.

www.twz.com

Interesting -

But why?

We are shown a vehicle that mounts offensive and defensive weapons systems as well as sensors. It also launches its own tethered drone.

Why?

The vehicle is still limited to movement in two dimensions. It is subject to the vagaries of the ground. It raises dust when it is dry. It gets stuck when it is wet. It is stopped by snow. It skids on ice. It needs bridges to get over rivers and boats to get over lakes. It doesn't do well with mines, trenches, wire and dragon's teeth. And tracks won't make things better.

It also makes a good sized target.

What does it offer that the drone itself doesn't offer?

The drone is small. Agile. Zippy. Hard to spot. A poor target.
It moves in three dimensions. It is independent of all terrain effects. It can fly high, low and in between. It can park itself in the sky out of sound and sight of the target while observing the target. It can land anywhere and go quiet and just observe. It can relocate easily.

It can penetrate and infiltrate. It can exploit narrow openings. It can advance over or through trees. It can deliver lethal payloads over distances that outrange any guns of any calibre. It can deliver payloads under overhead cover that guns and bombs can't breach.

It can act as a radio relay node. It can navigate relative to other drones. It can visually navigate the terrain independently. It can follow a pre-planned flight path if it is jammed. It can find its own targets. It can self-destruct.

And it is cheap.

How many MAVIKs or LAMs can you buy for the price of a recce vehicle? A tank?

The price of the drone is approaching the price of a round of ammunition in a tank, let alone the price of the gun, or the vehicle, or the ancillaries, or the crew, or the support.

8 more strike drone companies formed in Ukraine

Eight new strike drone companies have been formed in Ukraine; they were purchased within the UNITED24 platform and with the funds of the state budget.

www.pravda.com.ua

Ukrainian FPV Drones Hunt, Kill Russian Armor Inside Building

Footage of the strikes underscores the dynamic ways FPV drones are being used to seek and destroy in areas previously not possible.

www.twz.com

 

[KevinB]

Except the ‘CyberTruck’ sucks in its current form…

 

[Kirkhill]

 

[KevinB]

View attachment 83320 View attachment 83322View attachment 83321View attachment 83323

They are ‘A’ tool, not ‘THE’ tool. They have zero ability to stop an armored first rolling them, that is supported with artillery.