• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

Will the CAF's new pistol be a:

  • the new US service pistol, the Sig Sauer P320 (M17/M18)?

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • the British version of the Glock 17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Beretta APX?

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • a Canadian designed Black Creek Labs PX17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Norinco?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • something else?

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

Fabius

Jr. Member
Reaction score
6
Points
130
Reports by the media of 22,000 units are wrong I am pretty sure. They are confusing the currently unfunded CAF General Service Pistol Replacement project which is currently not programed to deliver anything for at least 10 plus years ( it would seem that when our last attempt failed we kicked the can really far down the road) and the ARMY interim Pistol project which apparently will be aiming at not more than 9000 units, more likely IVO 7000 units. It seems this interim buy is going to be a one off purchase with no long term support and is going to be lucky I think to get an RFP out in 2021.
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
123
Points
680
Reports by the media of 22,000 units are wrong I am pretty sure. They are confusing the currently unfunded CAF General Service Pistol Replacement project which is currently not programed to deliver anything for at least 10 plus years ( it would seem that when our last attempt failed we kicked the can really far down the road) and the ARMY interim Pistol project which apparently will be aiming at not more than 9000 units, more likely IVO 7000 units. It seems this interim buy is going to be a one off purchase with no long term support and is going to be lucky I think to get an RFP out in 2021.
All I have to go by is articles like this,, the interim buy is part of the GSP replacement.

"An RFP for the General Service Pistol replacement project will be issued in winter 2021 and a contract should be awarded by next summer, an official with the Assistant Deputy Minister (Materiel) branch confirmed.

The intent is to acquire a minimum of 9,000 full-frame, modular automatic pistols in an “initial buy” to support Army requirements. First delivery would be by the summer of 2022. However, the total contract could involve between 15,000 and 20,000 pistols."
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
102
Points
630
Could someone briefly clarify this matter of 2 separate pistol contracts, as referred to above? The upcoming competition to be announced this year, and then the unfunded CAF General Service Pistol down the road?

Why 2 different projects?
 

Fabius

Jr. Member
Reaction score
6
Points
130
I suspect that the official is either being misunderstood or was unclear in the conversation.
There are still two programs according to DLR. The first is being run by the Army for the Army so to speak. This is the 9000 pistols to replace the pistols in the front line ground combat units. The second program is run by the Army on behalf of the CAF so to speak. This is the CAF General Service Pistol Replacement which is again according to what I have seen is unfunded due to CAF priorities (Note that I did not say Army priorities) being else where for those funds. The CAF program when it comes around may/or may not buy the same pistol as the Army Program but there is no guarantee.
Basically the two programs come down to different dollar amounts which link to different funding envelopes which lead to different authority levels. Least that's how I understand this whole thing.
I think for us in the field force either way we will get a new pistol sometime in the next 2-3 years and then maybe another new pistol about 10 years out, or at least in service support for the pistol we just bought? :cool:
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
102
Points
630
Goodness gracious. The cost difference between buying 9,000 pistols for the Army field force, and 15,000 to 20,000 for a CAF wide pistol replacement wouldn't be all that different. This isn't exactly a 'huge budget' program.

Why not just skip ahead and buy the CAF replacement pistol instead?
 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
123
Points
680
Goodness gracious. The cost difference between buying 9,000 pistols for the Army field force, and 15,000 to 20,000 for a CAF wide pistol replacement wouldn't be all that different. This isn't exactly a 'huge budget' program.

Why not just skip ahead and buy the CAF replacement pistol instead?
Wake up, CHB, it's already 10:30 AM here in Ontario... smell the coffee, wake up, mate. Dream time is over.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
102
Points
630
Yeah, take that Haggis!!

Just going to glide right over the fact that I didn't notice that myself...
 
Reaction score
0
Points
60
The talk of replacing the Hi Power has been going on for years, when I joined the reserves in 81, there was talk of the Baretta 92 being adopted, but an armourer told me that Canada has a huge stock of surplus Brownings left over from WW2. When I transferred to the regular force, there were rumours that the Glock was being considered. There are half a dozen excellent pistols Canada could buy off the shelf, pistols that have gone laborious evaluation elsewhere, why reinvent the wheel? The Sig 320 or the HK USP would be perfect, right out of the box.
 

johnmorgan

Guest
Reaction score
0
Points
10
Hi everyone. Can anyone exlain me what is the British version of Glock 17? I know the only Austrian one.

 

OldSolduer

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
175
Points
680
The talk of replacing the Hi Power has been going on for years, when I joined the reserves in 81, there was talk of the Baretta 92 being adopted, but an armourer told me that Canada has a huge stock of surplus Brownings left over from WW2. When I transferred to the regular force, there were rumours that the Glock was being considered. There are half a dozen excellent pistols Canada could buy off the shelf, pistols that have gone laborious evaluation elsewhere, why reinvent the wheel? The Sig 320 or the HK USP would be perfect, right out of the box.
Because that is what we do - extensively test something combat proven, modify the sh*t out of it to make it "Canadian" and then wonder why the bloody things won't work.
 

PuckChaser

Army.ca Fixture
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
135
Points
780
Draft RFP has been released: Soldiersystems.net

Attached is the technical performance document from Buyandsell.
 

Attachments

  • C22 MPP 600 DOC Annex C Pistol Technical and Performance Specification.pdf
    438.5 KB · Views: 9

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
485
Points
830
  • Striker fired.
  • 9x19mm.
  • 17 round double stack mag.
  • 5.5-6lb trigger pull.
  • No external safety.
  • Loaded chamber indicator.
  • No decocking switch.
  • Must be able to fire with no mag inserted.
  • Must be ambidextrous, but this can be by lefty to righty conversion.
  • M1913 rail.
  • Must have an available conversion kit to make it .40 cal with the same trigger group.
  • Must be able to swap barrels for one that accepts a suppressor.
  • Must be able to replace the slide with one that mounts a red dot.
  • Must be able to be disassembled without pulling the trigger.

So, pistol people: what’s in play?
 
Last edited:

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
123
Points
680
  • Striker fired
  • 9x19mm
  • 17 round double stack mag
  • 5.5-6lb trigger pull
  • No external safety
  • Loaded chamber indicator on the top of the slide
  • No decocking switch
  • Must be able to fire with no mag inserted
  • Must be ambidextrous, but this can be by lefty to righty conversion
  • M1913 rail
  • Must have an available conversion kit to make it .40 cal with the same trigger group.
  • Must be able to swap barrels for one that accepts a suppressor
  • Must be able to replace the slide with one that mounts a red dot.
  • must have a striker deactivation button or other mechanical mechanism that will allow the shooter to disassemble the pistol without having to pull the trigger.

    That rules out Glock.
 

PuckChaser

Army.ca Fixture
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
135
Points
780
Quick look through CZ's offerings, only the P-10 looks like it could be close to meeting the specs, but not enough detail to know for sure. Everything else they offer has either a manual safety or decocker.
 
Top