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Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

Will the CAF's new pistol be a:

  • the new US service pistol, the Sig Sauer P320 (M17/M18)?

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • the British version of the Glock 17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Beretta APX?

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • a Canadian designed Black Creek Labs PX17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Norinco?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • something else?

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

brihard

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Why would the RCMP have 4 different types of pistols?!
General duty (S&W 5946), general duty with tiny hands (S&W 3953- single stack mag), Emergency Response Team (Sig P226 with a light) and a compact for some whose role necessitates it. The last one may not be affected. The first three could all be consolidated with a modular and railed frame.
 

Haggis

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There should be significant forward movement on the RCMP pistol acquisition this year. Similar issues- federal procurement, GBA+ requirements, desire to move to ‘same pistol for everybody’ (right now they have at least 4)…
Hopefully they learned lessons from the CAF's last attempt at purchasing a new pistol. :)
 
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Good2Golf

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How would having boots for office/social wear help determine what's best for the field force? Clearly, you've forgotten all about Garrison Dress.
Oh, I remember it well…especially the boots!
…especially from 1:18 on…

G2G's suggestion would have helped end the fiasco that is the RCAF Temperate Boot before it started.

Most RCAF members don't need a heavy steel-toed boot, and no one needs one that feels like it's designed to blood-let you through your heels.

But I digress.
Dimsum, Haggis was subtly and indirectly hinting as quite possibly the worst boot in CAF existence… 😉
 

KevinB

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The amount of redesign work required to bypass the magazine safety already makes it not Worth it. You would have to redesign the frame so the triping leaver stays in the raised position. Redesign the drills, etc, the CAF may waste money from time to time but finding a firm to do a mop on a 70 year old pistol would waste resources.

Parts wise, barrels, firing pins, and a few other parts are our issue. Can't recall what part off the top of my head, think it might be the sear, we have none left. If yours is done, send the pistol to depot and order a new pistol from war stocks. Parts could atleast band aid us till this procurement gets sorted out.
You can punch the plunger - and remove the Mag Safety - it takes an Armorer who knows the BHP about 2 min.
It does then leave a longer take up on the trigger - - solution that units who did that came up with was to weld up but on the sear/trigger bar - and that made the trigger actually nice - not a mushy POS.

I showed some CF Gun Plumbers how to do that in the 90's - and a mat tech or two may have done some welding ;)
But I agree at this point in time - there is zero need to do anything to that pistol.

Last number I heard on War Stock was still more than the number of No2 Mk1* currently issued.
So instead of buying spares - they should scrap the N/S guns and pull them out of stock -- most still have the British/Chense/Candian Decal on the front strap -- sadly it peels and cracks as soon as one starts to clean the preservative off it. We drew 40 some odd of them in the early 90's and they where cherry mint all with the decal - for about 5 min :cry:

My personal option is the CAF should get the Glock 19 and call it a day.
I don't think the Sig P226/P239 etc are a good choice - as the DA/SA transition - and the decocker takes some time to get used too. Also I am less enamored with the Sig 320 - which while the trigger box design makes modularity easy from a S/N aspect - the lifespan of the gun is somewhat less than one would probably like for a duty gun.
 

Colin Parkinson

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We could sell the unissued BHP's in the US market and pay for about 2/3rds the cost to replace them. they are collectors pieces. Same with the RCMP marked 5946's.
 

dimsum

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We could sell the unissued BHP's in the US market and pay for about 2/3rds the cost to replace them. they are collectors pieces. Same with the RCMP marked 5946's.
Interested Go On GIF by reactionseditor
 

KevinB

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We could sell the unissued BHP's in the US market and pay for about 2/3rds the cost to replace them. they are collectors pieces. Same with the RCMP marked 5946's.
You could sell unissued BHP's down here for 2-3x the cost of a new pistol.
The .gov price on a G19 with night sights and 5 mags is pretty low...
While a BHP down here is a $700+ gun - and ANIB with Decal over 2k.

Same with the RCMP marked Smith's.
 

brihard

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No way the feds will allow police marked firearms to go out for resale. That’s an optics disaster as soon as one is used in a murder. Domestically, of course, the RCMP 5946s are also prohibited. Could be interesting if they at least allowed the option of irreversible conversion to display pieces.
 

KevinB

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No way the feds will allow police marked firearms to go out for resale. That’s an optics disaster as soon as one is used in a murder.
LE does it down here all the time - some State Police laser marked guns fetch 50% more than normal versions due to collectors.
They sell them thru Distributors - but the guns sales are still Fed regulated - so the Department/Agencies just default to the fact it was legally disposed of etc if something like that occurs.
Domestically, of course, the RCMP 5946s are also prohibited. Could be interesting if they at least allowed the option of irreversible conversion to display pieces.
Tell the Commissioner I could get him around 1k a gun for those ;)
 

quadrapiper

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G2G's suggestion would have helped end the fiasco that is the RCAF Temperate Boot before it started.

Most RCAF members don't need a heavy steel-toed boot, and no one needs one that feels like it's designed to blood-let you through your heels.
Was looking for this comment. Possibly the least comfortable workboot I've ever worn.
 

Good2Golf

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Was looking for this comment. Possibly the least comfortable workboot I've ever worn.
Perhaps the scale of issue wasn’t right (in the same way the initial boot articles were less than satisfactory), but I can personally attest to the usefulness of having a suitably designed and comfortable Grade 1 boot for some RCAF personnel (aircrew certainly in aircraft where heavy things moving around them is an issue). I appreciated having a composite/non-metallic safety boot when I got a bit close to a pallet with a bit of momentum. I don’t know what the composition of the boot was/is, but it was cockpit friendly (non-metallic/ferrous), good sole even in the CWWB-environment, and not uncomfortable (did have ‘old guy’ semi-orthotic inserts).

$0.02
 

dimsum

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I don’t know what the composition of the boot was/is, but it was cockpit friendly (non-metallic/ferrous), good sole even in the CWWB-environment, and not uncomfortable (did have ‘old guy’ semi-orthotic inserts).
Thing is, there are other CSA-approved boots which don't feel like wearing concrete shoes.

Also, for whatever reason, the Temperate boot had a heel cup that would literally gouge just above my ankle - I wasn't kidding about the bloodletting. The CWWB didn't do that and was comfortable, but obviously was too warm for temperate weather.

And a minor but hilarious point - the sole and uppers would squeak down hallways. You could never sneak up on anyone indoors because it sounded like a pack of mice :ROFLMAO:
 

dimsum

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That. Extremely inflexible.

Are the CWW seaboots as aviation-friendly? Certainly more comfortable.
Probably? Both environments need safety toe and fire retardancy. I'd say the FOD sole was the big difference but they don't even have that with the current boots, so that's a wash.

I recall something about needing a full-leather boot with no zipper, which made no sense to me since you'd want to get in (and more importantly, out) of your boot in a hurry.
 

daftandbarmy

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And a minor but hilarious point - the sole and uppers would squeak down hallways. You could never sneak up on anyone indoors because it sounded like a pack of mice :ROFLMAO:

Because Peacekeepers don't need to 'sneak' anywhere ;)
 

Maxman1

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LE does it down here all the time - some State Police laser marked guns fetch 50% more than normal versions due to collectors.
They sell them thru Distributors - but the guns sales are still Fed regulated - so the Department/Agencies just default to the fact it was legally disposed of etc if something like that occurs.

Tell the Commissioner I could get him around 1k a gun for those ;)

Chretien outlawed that with the Firearms Act. No government firearms can surplussed to the public. Even the Rangers' No. 4 Mk 2s can't be sold off, but they may or may not be ignoring the law for those.
 

KevinB

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Chretien outlawed that with the Firearms Act. No government firearms can surplussed to the public. Even the Rangers' No. 4 Mk 2s can't be sold off, but they may or may not be ignoring the law for those.
There are always go arounds. You sell them to a Local Department that doesn't have that rule - who then has them transferred to a Distributor south of the border. Or depending upon how the verbiage is with "Public" you may just be able to go direct with the Distributor, and have a provision they cannot be re-exported to Canada.
 

Haggis

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There are always go arounds. You sell them to a Local Department that doesn't have that rule - who then has them transferred to a Distributor south of the border. Or depending upon how the verbiage is with "Public" you may just be able to go direct with the Distributor, and have a provision they cannot be re-exported to Canada.
You cannot import a prohibited firearms into Canada under any circumstances, even as a 12(X) licence holder, so that's not an issue in your proposal.

Export of a prohibited firearm and/or components requires a permit from the Global Affairs Canada and the receiving state.

US law, specifically, also places restrictions on the re-importation to the US of US manufactured firearms that were permanently exported from the US. So, if the firearms in question were manufactured in the US and deemed permanently exported when sold to the GoC/RCMP, they may be ineligible for re-importation.

TANGENT: This, IMO, is one of the more disgusting things about the May 1st, 2020 OIC gun ban. The Liberals included the possibility of exporting banned firearms knowing full well that US law prohibits this in most cases and that the Minister of Foreign Affairs may deny any Canadian export permit application.:mad: TANGENT ENDS
 

KevinB

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You cannot import a prohibited firearms into Canada under any circumstances, even as a 12(X) licence holder, so that's not an issue in your proposal.
But you could theoretically add a 106mm barrel - and thus it wouldn't be a prohibited 12(6) handgun anymore (in the case of the Mountie Smiths)
Export of a prohibited firearm and/or components requires a permit from the Global Affairs Canada and the receiving state.

US law, specifically, also places restrictions on the re-importation to the US of US manufactured firearms that were permanently exported from the US. So, if the firearms in question were manufactured in the US and deemed permanently exported when sold to the GoC/RCMP, they may be ineligible for re-importation.
Pistols (for the most part) don't fall into that category - generally just AR's and other Modern Sporting Rifles, which really pissed me off - as when I moved down here, I had some nice AR's that couldn't come down - and my fire sale pricing hurt.

I know some folks who just imported a few former LE made in Smyrna Glocks from Canada.
TANGENT: This, IMO, is one of the more disgusting things about the May 1st, 2020 OIC gun ban. The Liberals included the possibility of exporting banned firearms knowing full well that US law prohibits this in most cases and that the Minister of Foreign Affairs may deny any Canadian export permit application.:mad: TANGENT ENDS
I am sure the Canadian Government would love to get rid of all those hateful things - especially if it is a good deal.
 
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