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Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

Will the CAF's new pistol be a:

  • the new US service pistol, the Sig Sauer P320 (M17/M18)?

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • the British version of the Glock 17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Beretta APX?

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • a Canadian designed Black Creek Labs PX17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Norinco?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • something else?

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

dapaterson

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One of many pieces of urban myth perpetuated. They are long out of warranty now; maintenance is contracted to local dealers, and paid out of the National Procurement budget.
 

Maxman1

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This is the MSVS-Navistar? How is that possible? The trucks are taken off road for commercial vocational use all the time without any warranty issues.

I figured it was referring to the Navistar's replacement, the Mack Kerak.
 

Bluebulldog

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Springfield Armoury is now manufacturing the Hi-Power as Mod SA-35.

I wonder if that might be a consideration / wrinkle....?
 

KevinB

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Springfield Armoury is now manufacturing the Hi-Power as Mod SA-35.

I wonder if that might be a consideration / wrinkle....?
No.

No Army is going to buy a metal frame single action gun these days, it is cost prohibitive.
Not to mention not the ideal choice in terms, of weight, function, safety etc.
 

Bluebulldog

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No.

No Army is going to buy a metal frame single action gun these days, it is cost prohibitive.
Not to mention not the ideal choice in terms, of weight, function, safety etc.

Thinking less of a procurement, than parts are being manufactured in NA again.
 

KevinB

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Thinking less of a procurement, than parts are being manufactured in NA again.
Parts really aren't the issue.
The issue is the No2 Mk1* isn't a viable service pistol anymore.

The safety is terrible. I'm a BHP fan, but the issue safety is small and hard to remove easily with gloves (Nomex tight fitting)
The Mag Safety leads to a number of problems - but the CAF wouldn't authorize the plunger to be removed for that (all my BHP's have that done)
No Light Rail -- for many many reasons, you want a light on a pistol - as a lot of the time you are using the pistol it is in a dark confined space.
Sights - the iron sights on the No2 Mk1* are awful - I know at one point in time there was an effort to have slides milled for a modern dovetail sight - so a front tritium dot could be used at minimum.
Magazines - while 13rds was revolutionary at the time - it isn't now, and construction and materials of them are generally pretty poorly designed in terms of todays.
 

Bluebulldog

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Parts really aren't the issue.
The issue is the No2 Mk1* isn't a viable service pistol anymore.

Makes sense. My understanding was the procurement was more about there not being a viable source of parts to keep the current stock functioning. It would seem under that logic that a manufacturer who is now producing new BHPs may alleviate that issue.

I'm a fan of the 226, and 320. Would love to see something happen that end.

Cheers.
 

MilEME09

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Parts really aren't the issue.
The issue is the No2 Mk1* isn't a viable service pistol anymore.

The safety is terrible. I'm a BHP fan, but the issue safety is small and hard to remove easily with gloves (Nomex tight fitting)
The Mag Safety leads to a number of problems - but the CAF wouldn't authorize the plunger to be removed for that (all my BHP's have that done)
No Light Rail -- for many many reasons, you want a light on a pistol - as a lot of the time you are using the pistol it is in a dark confined space.
Sights - the iron sights on the No2 Mk1* are awful - I know at one point in time there was an effort to have slides milled for a modern dovetail sight - so a front tritium dot could be used at minimum.
Magazines - while 13rds was revolutionary at the time - it isn't now, and construction and materials of them are generally pretty poorly designed in terms of todays.

The amount of redesign work required to bypass the magazine safety already makes it not Worth it. You would have to redesign the frame so the triping leaver stays in the raised position. Redesign the drills, etc, the CAF may waste money from time to time but finding a firm to do a mop on a 70 year old pistol would waste resources.

Parts wise, barrels, firing pins, and a few other parts are our issue. Can't recall what part off the top of my head, think it might be the sear, we have none left. If yours is done, send the pistol to depot and order a new pistol from war stocks. Parts could atleast band aid us till this procurement gets sorted out.
 

Bluebulldog

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Parts wise, barrels, firing pins, and a few other parts are our issue. Can't recall what part off the top of my head, think it might be the sear, we have none left. If yours is done, send the pistol to depot and order a new pistol from war stocks. Parts could atleast band aid us till this procurement gets sorted out

That was my understanding as well.

No one is saying a new service pistol isn't due. Seems that is the SIG 226 and 320 are already being issued in limited use, that a larger buy should be easier...

But then again, PSPC.....:cautious:
 

Haggis

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Parts really aren't the issue.
The issue is the No2 Mk1* isn't a viable service pistol anymore.

The safety is terrible. I'm a BHP fan, but the issue safety is small and hard to remove easily with gloves (Nomex tight fitting)
The Brits had an ambidextrous oversized safety on theirs.
The Mag Safety leads to a number of problems - but the CAF wouldn't authorize the plunger to be removed for that (all my BHP's have that done)
The CAF's PROVE drills for the BHP are designed almost to encourage an ND, IMO.
No Light Rail -- for many many reasons, you want a light on a pistol - as a lot of the time you are using the pistol it is in a dark confined space.
A deep dive into pistol use by the mainstream CAF (not CANSOF, MTOG, MP or CP) would likely show that a lot of time you're only using the pistol on a range or in an office. :) In order to use a pistol in low light the training would have to change dramatically. We can't even allow members to draw and fire from a holster during PWT 1, 2 or 3 yet!
Sights - the iron sights on the No2 Mk1* are awful - I know at one point in time there was an effort to have slides milled for a modern dovetail sight - so a front tritium dot could be used at minimum.
Decent pistol training is a cheaper solution IMO.
Magazines - while 13rds was revolutionary at the time - it isn't now, and construction and materials of them are generally pretty poorly designed in terms of todays.
No Canadian should ever carry more than ten rounds in a pistol magazine. Ever. Anywhere.
 

Haggis

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Make people in Treasury Board and Public Works wear the boots for a year, to appreciate why their policies aren’t always the best for the troops…
How would having boots for office/social wear help determine what's best for the field force? Clearly, you've forgotten all about Garrison Dress.
 

SeaKingTacco

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The Brits had an ambidextrous oversized safety on theirs.

The CAF's PROVE drills for the BHP are designed almost to encourage an ND, IMO.

A deep dive into pistol use by the mainstream CAF (not CANSOF, MTOG, MP or CP) would likely show that a lot of time you're only using the pistol on a range or in an office. :) In order to use a pistol in low light the training would have to change dramatically. We can't even allow members to draw and fire from a holster during PWT 1, 2 or 3 yet!

Decent pistol training is a cheaper solution IMO.

No Canadian should ever carry more than ten rounds in a pistol magazine. Ever. Anywhere.
Try eight rounds…
 

dimsum

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How would having boots for office/social wear help determine what's best for the field force? Clearly, you've forgotten all about Garrison Dress.
G2G's suggestion would have helped end the fiasco that is the RCAF Temperate Boot before it started.

Most RCAF members don't need a heavy steel-toed boot, and no one needs one that feels like it's designed to blood-let you through your heels.

But I digress.
 

brihard

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There should be significant forward movement on the RCMP pistol acquisition this year. Similar issues- federal procurement, GBA+ requirements, desire to move to ‘same pistol for everybody’ (right now they have at least 4)… I see no reason the characteristics of the firearms being sought shouldn’t be pretty similar. Maybe twitch the exception that CAF will insist on an external manual safety. Still, should be interesting to see if the one procurement informs or assists the other.
 
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