• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

Teeps74

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
jollyjacktar said:
Oh how about manure brown...

ROFL!  Thanks gents!

Now, perhaps they can eventually dye themselves a more regal colour in the future... At the moment though, brown would be a really good colour.
 

exbirdgunner

Guest
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Prior to sending this letter I was a RCL member for twenty years. The lack of support for CVNDOP and the long talk I had with the Service Officer(no military experience) in relationship to assisting ALL Veterans with VAC led to a decision that as of today I don't regret.

It's the RCL's own fault for where they are today. No respect at all. When I transferred my RCL membership to the Selkirk branch the first newsletter showed a picture of seven Associate members being welcomed to the Legion....YET the one Ordinary member(myself) did not receive an invite......I can see where their priorities are.



November 17th 2010


Royal Canadian Legion
Selkirk Branch 42
403 Eveline St.
Selkirk MB
R1A 1N8


Non-support Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest-Resignation


Royal Canadian Legion Branch 42,

It is disappointing that the Royal Canadian legion must stand behind the decision it has made. Many Veterans and Legion members were counting on the Royal Canadian Legions support, even if it was only with word, to allow them to attend this protest knowing the organization that we belong to stands behind them and beside our Veterans.

The support requested was meant to allow the Royal Canadian Legion the flexibility to take a stand without it going against it's own constitution. By once again stating that the Royal Canadian Legion does not support the Canadian Veterans National Day Of Protest can only be defined as supporting the Government of Canada.

By standing by and allowing illegal practices by Veterans Affairs Canada regarding the privacy act, the endorsement of Manulife Financial even though they are the key culprit in the SISIP clawback, allowing the Government of Canada to clawback pensions, and now the open non-support of the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest, a protest of Veterans who have had enough. I can only conclude that the Royal Canadian legion is no longer the Veterans advocate organization I believed I had joined.

One can only look at current membership numbers to know what is occuring at Royal Canadian Legions across Canada. It is no longer the place for Veterans but in a sense a union hall catering to the “old boys club”. The current executive of Royal Canadian Legion Selkirk Branch 42 is a prime example of Associate members taking over the ranks within the Royal Canadian Legion. One executive member is an actual Veteran, which is on par with the membership numbers across Canada, 370,000 members of which only 70,000 are Veterans.
This does not give the Royal Canadian Legion automatic privelige to say they are the voice and representation of Veterans, I would say Veteran Voice is more of a “voice for the Veteran” than the Royal Canadian Legion and with a current membership well over 110,000 and growing. Veterans have found a new home.

It is imparative that the Royal Canadian Legion change it's attitude immediately and stand side by side with all Veterans. Without new memberships coming in and a revolt bulding how is the Royal Canadian Legion going to attract actual Veterans for their membership numbers? In the month of October Royal Canadian Legion Selkirk Branch 42 welcomed three new Associate members and another 19 members who I believe are Associate members. So where are the Ordinary members? By continuosly allowing non-Veterans to access the sacred halls only shows how out-of-touch they really are.


Therefore, I wish to inform the Royal Canadian Legion Selkirk Branch 42 I am resigning as a member of the Royal Canadian Legion effective 18 November 2010. I will, at this time, ask any other Legion members who feel the same betrayal do likewise.

Good luck in the future. I wish only the best for our Veterans and pray one day the organization known as the Royal Canadian Legion never views 6th November 2010 as the day that began their downfall.



Lest We Forget.













 

2010newbie

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
exbirdgunner said:
the endorsement of Manulife Financial even though they are the key culprit in the SISIP clawback, allowing the Government of Canada to clawback pensions,

I am unfamiliar with this situation; can you expand on Manulife's wrongdoings?
 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/09/facebook-replaces-legions-for-new-vets


Facebook replaces legions for new vets

By Jessica Murphy ,Parliamentary Bureau

First posted: Friday, November 11, 2011 02:00 AM EST


1319120743588_ORIGINAL.jpg

Afghanistan war veteran Shaun Arntsen marches in Banff's Remembrance Day parade. (Larissa Barlow/ QMI Agency)

OTTAWA - Modern vets say the best place to find someone who can talk you in off the ledge at 3 a.m. is Facebook.

"You can't sleep because you're trying to deal with the nightmares - what do you do?" said retired coporal Shaun Arntsen.

"You go on Facebook like every other 26-year-old."

For the Afghanistan generation, the pale glow of computer screens have filled the void left by the former heavy hitters of veteran's advocacy, analog organizations left in the dust of the digital revolution.

Online is where soldiers posted overseas connect with family and former colleagues.

It's where the Royal Canadian Legion's scrappy and outspoken grassroots counterparts have set up camp.

It's where Arntsen first heard a colleague he'd soldiered with in Afghanistan - Cpl. Byron Greff - died in a suicide blast in Kabul last month.

And if your neighbours triggered your post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) with an impromptu back yard fireworks display, well, there's another ex-soldier awake somewhere with a laptop and a cooler head who can talk you down.

"Now you've got healing for operational stress injuries immediately," said the 35-year-old third-generation soldier.

Facebook also offers an emotional buffer for ex-army tough guys uncomfortable with admitting they're still haunted with the ghosts of war.

Meanwhile, membership at the legion has been dropping steadily for over 15 years - and the organization is only now mulling whether to launch a social media strategy.

The legion's failure to recruit freshly battle-scarred vets like Arntsen is top of mind for national spokesman Bob Butt - in part because with dwindling membership comes dwindling influence.

"The stronger the membership we have, the more force we have in government circles," Butt conceded.

Ex-servicemen and women from Canada's decade-long war in Afghanistan make up a tiny percentage of the population compared to the surviving soldiers who flooded home when the Second World War ended, argued Butt.

So in a bid to shore up its membership numbers, the legion opened its doors to civilians, leaving ex-soldiers like Arntsen fresh from conflicts overseas with little in common with those occupying branch bar stools.

"The Afghanistan generation doesn't identify with dart leagues, meat draws and Canasta tickets," he argued.

The Department of Veterans Affairs, however, has been more web savvy.

"This is really where things are moving towards at lightening speed," said Peter Yendall, the department's talkative and cheerful communications director.

Publishing information on federal services on Facebook and through Twitter is just the first move in the department's grand plan to reach out to its clients online.

"Then the next step is to increase the engagement, to have more conversations on what the needs are, meeting those needs and opening up that dialogue," he said.

Whether Veterans Affairs and organizations like the legion can move fast enough to catch up with modern vets now home from Afghanistan and transitioning to civilian life remains to be seen.

But guys like Arntsen have a good head start.

The online community already pulled him away from his post-service struggle with PTSD and cocaine where traditional help fell through.

"I walked down a road where the outcome could have been very bad," he admitted.

"But there are guys online right now. If I was having an issue, I'd be talking to them for sure."

People are apparently gangbusters for the feds' “Canada Remembers” Facebook page.

The page, launched in 2010, allows Canadians to share Remembrance Day memories and stories, along with videos and pictures.

“Instead of bringing people out to the brick-and-mortar war memorial — which is still very important — we're trying to actually bring remembrance and commemoration to them,” said Peter Yendall, director general of communications for the Department of Veterans Affairs.

It's has than 500,000 'likes' so far, and if past experience is anything to go by, those numbers will ratchet up during Remembrance Day celebrations.

Last year, the federal government promoted the page through the social media network in the week leading up to Remembrance Day.

“It just snowballed,” said Yendall, recalling watching the page follows swell by 200,000.

“It's created this massive remembrance community. You've got a mix of (Canadian Forces) members and veterans but you also have Canadians, like you or me, on there.”

Yendall is also cheered by the reach it appears to have with younger Canadians, including his own 14-year-old son.

“It's really nice to know the next generation has really gleaned on to this and will continue to carry the torch,” he said.

Copyright © 2011 mention All rights reserved mention    The Toronto Sun is a member of the canoe network

 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
Nice to see for those who do Facebook.  Sadly, I'm not one and won't join the crowd at Facebook for many reasons.  And nothing against FB either but for those who do I think it's the perfect place as opposed to the RCL.
 

Michael OLeary

Army.ca Fixture
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
1
Points
410
Facebook is one method to connect with fellow soldiers* on line, but it does open people up to everyone else they know trying to communicate with them as well. Another alternative is for regimental associations to support the establishment of virtual branches based on units and periods of service or even specific operational tours. It's not just the RCL that has to broaden its approach to assist serving and retired soldiers in building the connections they seek. The old models were formed as the best option at the time, aspects of them are outdated and they need to evolve with the changing communications environment (because that, in my opinion, is their fundamental purpose).


* or sailors, airmen, etc.
 

Edward Campbell

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
278
Points
910
Michael O'Leary is right.

Like jollyjacktar I am not a FB user nor am I likely to become one. I suspect age has as much to do with it as anything else.

I am a member of a couple of regimental/corps associations and of another couple of less formal social groups - people who went to certain schools or did certain things gather on a periodic basis. Our regimental/corps associations all seem to suffer from the same disease, let's call it the 'Legion Disease,' the younger serving or recently retired members just don't show up - and it isn't a "we're not comfortable in the Officers' Mess" thing - one of our sister regimental associations moved its meetings to another place and there was no change.

The fact is that young vets like Shaun Arntsen, pictured above and, clearly a proud Patricia, doesn't have any more in common with old retired guys like me - most of whom retired before Afghanistan started or even before the Balkans operations - than he does with the old retired guys in the local Legion branch and we, the regiments and corps, like the Legion are not reaching out to him.

Maybe Milnet.ca can provide a 'place' for some.
 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
Agreed ER.  This is as close as I will get to FB and it suits me fine.
 

The Bread Guy

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
293
Points
1,130
E.R. Campbell said:
Maybe Milnet.ca can provide a 'place' for some.
Or, at the very, very least, a sort of bridge between the Twitter generation and the one a bit before it.  Excellent idea, E.R.
 

Edward Campbell

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
278
Points
910
But, jjt, we are exceptions not the rule. Young retired members like Shaun Arntsen, pictured above, and many members here are the rule and they are very comfortable with social media.

Those who want to support them must stop complaining that they don't join seedy old bricks and mortar clubs, filled with people of my age nor do they become associate members of regimental or garrison messes to hang out with folks like you, they go online and look for "friends," people with whole they have a shared bond of experience.
 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
E.R. Campbell said:
But, jjt, we are exceptions not the rule. Young retired members like Shaun Arntsen, pictured above, and many members here are the rule and they are very comfortable with social media.

Those who want to support them must stop complaining that they don't join seedy old bricks and mortar clubs, filled with people of my age nor do they become associate members of regimental or garrison messes to hang out with folks like you, they go online and look for "friends," people with whole they have a shared bond of experience.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.  In my household I am the only one who does not do FB.  At work, all of my  fellows also do FB.  I think that it is a fantastic way for them to keep in touch and feed the social fabric needs of their lives.  FB and the like is the wave of the future for networking socially, not the crypt of the RCL.  For me, I'll do my networking here.
 

GAP

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
8
Points
380
My sons often mention that they saw "such & such" on the FB page of one of my other sons....but I've avoided it like the plague....I dislike the premise that aspects of my life would be out there for anybody to garner....

I like my privacy, I'm comfortable with it, and do NOT wish to share with any and all....

 

Michael OLeary

Army.ca Fixture
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
1
Points
410
jollyjacktar said:
For me, I'll do my networking here.

And that, in my opinion, is the important part. You've found a vehicle for communication that works for you, and you should stick to it until you are convinced there's an alternative and functional option to explore. The "dying organizations" are the ones who are saying "we are the old guard, we are here, come to us" instead of building the vehicles over which young veterans will be comfortable communicating with each other even if the established members don't understand it or use it.
 

Edward Campbell

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
278
Points
910
GAP said:
My sons often mention that they saw "such & such" on the FB page of one of my other sons....but I've avoided it like the plague....I dislike the premise that aspects of my life would be out there for anybody to garner....

I like my privacy, I'm comfortable with it, and do NOT wish to share with any and all....


And we old farts are in violent agreement, but we are a shrinking minority. I just, in the past few days, skipped past a newspaper report about seniors on FB - another sign of old age: I read newspapers, the physical editions that someone leaves at my door every morning. The people that want to connect, including us, are using the Internet, and not the RCL or the garrison messes. As Michael O'Leary says this, Milnet.ca, is sufficient for some of us but younger people want the quicker and more public action of FB.

End of:  :deadhorse:

 

Spartan

Full Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I think a lot of the posts hit it squarely on the head - the emphasis on less drinking and private clubs has gone.

I also think that the infighting amongst the Legion, ANAVETS, et al has played a crucial role in the Legion's demise. I don't understand the resistance amongst the legion branches in amalgamating and becoming a better operation, and I don't understand why there are multiple veteran organisations in direct competition with each other, often in the same area.

All these coupled together will see the Legion fall from being the CF's advocate, to, simply representing the old guard (which, unfortunately, there are less and less every year :-\)
 

tomahawk6

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
61
Points
530
Legion membership is cheaper than a what a shrink charges.The purpose of the Legion is to allow vets to socialize with others that have the same experiences.They also do community activities which are intended to stay relevant in the community.The younger vets dont much care for going to club which is why membership is down in the US.
 

kstart

Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
This was an unfortunate story, a 21 year Veteran and his wife were turned away from a Legion Branch in Lethbridge, Alberta on Remembrance Day:

http://www.globallethbridge.com/video/headlines+nov+13/video.html?v=2167229188&p=1&s=dd#top+stories

The Legion apologized. . . the staff member didn't know. . .

I guess it's some dialogue happening. . .



I've heard others at times recommend to others who are struggling with advocacy issues, to visit their local Legion branch for assistance, but what if they're being turned away at the door? 

What if they are at wit's end, struggling with the stress of medical conditions; while the paperwork is held up at VAC, which is delaying access to medical treatment that they need now; and they need support, but they're being turned away? 

How is that for younger CF members, facing recent post-deployment stress, or fears or crisis of disability, under stress.  Why would younger CF go to the RCL, given the NVC, SISIP claw-back which seems like it is punative to the younger generation, or newly disabled CF members (e.g. anyone making a claim, post-2006). 

It seems there is some disconnect?  How could they otherwise let the younger generation fall under the bus on issues of long-term disability coverage, not speak up, speak out on their behalf?  Why is this issue treated as"political" ("don't go there"), when they've had a long-standing record of Veteran's Advocacy for all these years, but not for younger generation CF?  Is it anger about lower membership, so punish the younger generation?

I know there are some very actively engaged RCL members who are reaching out to younger generations, doing outreach, schools, active in their communities, becoming contact persons. . . individuals. . .  I know also, there are other Veteran's Advocacy organizations, maybe having to pick up the slack?

Are they making themselves irrelevant?  Maybe it is just for the older folks, they treat as "their own". . .?  There is social media, advocacy help for younger generations.  It can work effectively, less distractions vs. in a bar, tools readily on hand to look into things, answer questions, and offer support.  I think Milnet here is positive, a mix of younger and older generations, opportunities for input, without the other distractions.  Time for others to look into things as well, hear multitude of perspectives on things.  I still feel it's positive for young and older to mix. 
 

Brasidas

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
160
tomahawk6 said:
Legion membership is cheaper than a what a shrink charges.The purpose of the Legion is to allow vets to socialize with others that have the same experiences.They also do community activities which are intended to stay relevant in the community.The younger vets dont much care for going to club which is why membership is down in the US.

I went to the legion a little bit ten years ago, and it was listening to stories about the army of fifty years before from guys who could have been my grandfather. They were sometimes interesting, but more often than not it wasn't a comfortable environment for me, so I stopped.

Today, there's hardly any of those guys left, and there's no reason for me to set foot in the place other than tradition on Remembrance Day.

My dad wasn't even born when Korea was over, and it was never a place he identified with the members of.

The legion does not now, and never has, had a real place for me and my father, nor anyone of either generation that I've known. When an institution loses touch with its purpose for two generations in a row, it deserves to die.
 

bossi

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
0
kstart said:
It seems there is some disconnect?  How could they otherwise let the younger generation fall under the bus on issues of long-term disability coverage, not speak up, speak out on their behalf?  Why is this issue treated as"political" ("don't go there"), when they've had a long-standing record of Veteran's Advocacy for all these years, but not for younger generation CF?  Is it anger about lower membership, so punish the younger generation?

I agree with other members here - the Legion is "broken".
(and I'll never forgive them for selling us out via the NVC ... they verged on being traitors ...)

However ... when something breaks, sometimes we can scavenge spare or usable parts
(i.e. rather than re-invent the wheel ...)

And, as others have also pointed out, the present-day membership has become part of the problem (i.e. normally veterans look out for each other - however, the Legion membership includes many civilians who've joined during the "dark" decades when public support for our veterans wasn't as visible as it is today - thus, there are civilian members of the Legion who'll never be entitled to VAC or CF benefits ... and even if it's only subconscious ... maybe they're not as willing to fight for veterans benefits as veterans are ...)

We dilute our enery and power if we divide ourselves between too many organizations
(NEVER forget the Romans and their "divide and conquer" - certain political parties here in Canada have perfected it, and used it to weaken any common Canadian identity or consciousness ... and you can be sure there are bureaucrats "somewhere" who are only too happy to see us fight anong or with ourselves, instead of presenting a common united voice supported by a majority of Canadians ...)

Give it some more thought, please - I think we can salvage some spare parts from the Legion ... once we get rid of the parts that aren't working for us ...
 
Top