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Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

ArmyRick

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I think the writing is on the wall, the RCL will not transform fast enough to absorb modern day veterans.
 

Lightguns

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recceguy said:
It is a VETERANS organisation. I appreciate that civilians wish to support us. However, civilians, should not have a vote or be qble to hold executive positkons.

If you need a reason why Veterans won't join, it's  because the Legion is not ours. It's now a  civilian club that uses veteran support as their raison dêtre for existence.

You want Veterans back? Revert back to past practice where you need to be a Veteran to vote. I have a  history of over 40 years of Legion membership  as an Ordinary (Veteran) member. I go in at the NY Levee and pay my dues. I go in the following NY levee and pick up my expired cards and pay for the.next year.

It used to be where you could find me. It would, now, be the last place to look for me.

Restore ownership to us that own the title of Veteran and the RCL will restore itself.

Agree completely with the additional proviso that a veteran is defined as someone who completed his engagement honourably, or medically released or not NES with a reserve unit. 
 

mariomike

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Lightguns said:
Agree completely with the additional proviso that a veteran is defined as someone who completed his engagement honourably, or medically released or not NES with a reserve unit.

ArmyDoc said:
The RCL definition of "veteran" is anyone who has served and has completed basic training ie BMQ.

From,

What is a Veteran?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/29033.75.html
5 pages.
 

Lumber

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Lightguns said:
Agree completely with the additional proviso that a veteran is defined as someone who completed his engagement honourably, or medically released or not NES with a reserve unit.

What? You mean you wouldn't consider someone who was in sea cadets from ages 14-15 as a Veteran deserving of Ordinary membership???

:sarcasm:

(apparently I need to do this now..)
 

Halifax Tar

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I don't know, is someone who completes their BMQ and 3 or 5 year BE really a veteran ? 

I find the term, personally, veteran thrown around allot for people who "meet the standard" per say but that I have a hard time viewing as veterans. 

I don't know maybe I'm a dick or something but a 20 year old kid with veteran plates who's never been outside the local armouries or training area irks me somewhat.

In my mind there has to be more added value to the "qual", i.e. must they should have  to have earned the CD or at least 1, 6 month deployment (e.g. NATO, UN ect). 

I am sure I will get flak for the above so fire away...

 
 

Lightguns

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Halifax Tar said:
I don't know, is someone who completes their BMQ and 3 or 5 year BE really a veteran ? 

I find the term, personally, veteran thrown around allot for people who "meet the standard" per say but that I have a hard time viewing as veterans. 

I don't know maybe I'm a dick or something but a 20 year old kid with veteran plates who's never been outside the local armouries or training area irks me somewhat.

In my mind their has to be more added to the "qual", i.e. must have the CD or at least 1 6 month deployment (e.g. NATO, UN ct). 

I am sure I will get flak for the above so fire away...

Veteran plates irk me PERIOD. The issuing authority gives them away like candy or makes a profit of it as a specialized plate. 
 
J

jollyjacktar

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Damn skippy.  I know I'm special, my mum always told me so.

:sarcasm:
 

runormal

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Halifax Tar said:
I don't know, is someone who completes their BMQ and 3 or 5 year BE really a veteran ? 

I find the term, personally, veteran thrown around allot for people who "meet the standard" per say but that I have a hard time viewing as veterans. 

I don't know maybe I'm a dick or something but a 20 year old kid with veteran plates who's never been outside the local armouries or training area irks me somewhat.

In my mind their has to be more added to the "qual", i.e. must have the CD or at least 1 6 month deployment (e.g. NATO, UN ct). 

I am sure I will get flak for the above so fire away...

I have a similar feeling towards the issue myself. I wouldn't even begin to consider myself a veteran until I went on a tour or did some serious time in the reg-f.

Which is also why I'd never even consider joining the legion. At least not for the next 40 or so years. Maybe when I'm retied.
 

CountDC

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VAC: http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/definition-veteran

VAC considers any former member of the Canadian Armed Forces who releases with an honourable discharge and who successfully underwent basic training to be a Veteran.

Merriam Webster Online Dictionary: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/veteran

Full Definition of veteran

a :  an old soldier of long service

b :  a former member of the armed forces

and just for fun the USA: http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/whatvet.htm

A veteran is defined by federal law, moral code and military service as "Any, Any, Any"... A military veteran is Any person who served for Any length of time in Any military service branch

So regardless of our own opinions that reservist that joins in April, completes basic over the summer and releases in Sept is considered a vet. Note that even the ones that are released NES are "honourably released" which I have shared my opinion on before. 
 

mariomike

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CountDC said:
and just for fun the USA: http://www.americanwarlibrary.com/whatvet.htm

A veteran is defined by federal law, moral code and military service as "Any, Any, Any"... A military veteran is Any person who served for Any length of time in Any military service branch

King of the Hill:

VFW is in dire straits as members are lost to the grim reaper. First, they're behind on their propane bill, then their fundraiser goes awry, and are finally evicted from their building. To Peggy's displeasure, Hank invites the VFW into their house. In order to get them back into their own building, Peggy suggests that the VFW should invite Vietnam vets to join their organization. Cotton and the WWII vets don't like this idea ("Vietnam boys?" says Cotton. "No goddang way! The VFW stands for Veterans of Foreign Wars, not reefer-smokin' losers!").

CountDC said:
So regardless of our own opinions that reservist that joins in April, completes basic over the summer and releases in Sept is considered a vet.

runormal said:
Which is also why I'd never even consider joining the legion. At least not for the next 40 or so years. Maybe when I'm retied.

If any Branches are still open.  :)

 

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Teager

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Teager said:
And some legions want to figure out what is going on. This is a survey from Branch 15 on this very question.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MJvDCVgnAL11I-dCXF3i2NVkxDcps23L1efPPxgmG68/viewform

For anyone that took the survey or interested in the results here they are.

http://rclbr15.com/wordpress/surveyreport/
 

PuckChaser

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Its a fantastic executive summary, and provides a lot of solid comments to the Dominion Command. After looking at the guys who have more Legion bling than real medals on the executive (or any actual military service), I highly doubt they'll entertain canning all Legion medals as recommended.
 

Teager

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PuckChaser said:
Its a fantastic executive summary, and provides a lot of solid comments to the Dominion Command. After looking at the guys who have more Legion bling than real medals on the executive (or any actual military service), I highly doubt they'll entertain canning all Legion medals as recommended.

I agree it is an extremely well done report with the data coming straight from vets and serving members themselves. Hopefully it brings some change in.
 

Lightguns

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Read the whole report, a number of interesting things that seem trivial but once gathered together show a pattern of petty jealousy between civilian legion members and veterans aspiring to be legion members.  The specialty badges was a good one.  Yes, democratically decided that badges would not be part of the legion uniform BUT the majority of the voters were people who would never earn said badges.  There is a pattern of the legion attempting in immortalize the WW1 and WW2 vets as the only true veterans. 

The Beznoski issue was obviously mis-handled and they attempt it in the report, finally. 
 

Halifax Tar

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That was excellent initiative by Br 15. 

They seem to be ahead of the curve in trying to figure out some fixes to their problems. 

I have a Legion about 75m from my house.  I should at least try...
 

mariomike

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Lightguns said:
There is a pattern of the legion attempting in immortalize the WW1 and WW2 vets as the only true veterans

According to VAC, their average age is 92.

CountDC said:
So regardless of our own opinions that reservist that joins in April, completes basic over the summer and releases in Sept is considered a vet.



 

Wrangler

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I'm very appreciative of what Br 15 has done. This will all be brought up at our next provincial convention and all branches will be made aware of the findings. Dominion Command can be difficult to deal with so rather than hope that change starts from the top and work down, we'll work at changing from the bottom on up.

If any members here wish to add their own comments in regards to Br 15's survey, please feel free to PM me. More specifically, if you have any issues directly related to any branches within Quebec Command, I would like to hear about them.

There are many of us trying very hard to right the wrongs and to change the culture of the Legion. It is not an easy process, but change has started.
 

Lightguns

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Hampton, NB Legion seems to have created a social media storm.  https://www.facebook.com/jamie.keating.92

Mr Keating attempted to be part of service to honour 9 fallen friends from Afghanistan and was told the laying ceremony was for dignities only.  His rant video is making the rounds of CFB Gagetown FB users last night and this morning. 
 
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