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Which TSM?

SuperTrooper

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Well, I've been having this chat with some fellows and I have been reading Regimental Duties and have looked closley at Chapter 2.
Now that we have stream lined, we have 2 gunline TSM, recce TSM, FOO WO and a CP WO, that gives us 5 WO's in a bty.
My question is, who is the Senior WO amongst them, I have always said it was the gunline TSM as he would be relieving or replacing the BSM as required, others have mentioned the Recce TSM.
Real world now, we all know who is who in the zoo and respect each others knowledge and TI, just curious.
If anyone could shed some light that would be great.
 

Bomber

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I beleive that your BQMS is a deputy to your BSM, and would be the most senior WO  on the position.
 

Nfld Sapper

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well then the most senior arty guy/gal would be the next in the CoC. IMHO
 

Eye In The Sky

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If its like an Armd Sqn, the SQMS was the *usual* one to replace the SSM if he was not on ground.  I've never seen a SQMS that wasn't Armd but hey, I am only one guy.

*not a Herbie so, thats my 2 cents.
 

Old Sweat

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Guys,

Before we spiral out of control, the BQMS is not on the gun position. We also are not talking about replacing, as opposed to understudying, the BSM. The BQMS works in the rear area - in B echelon in my generation's talk - and rarely if ever visits the battery in action. And he is a gunner. The only non-gunner WO I ever saw in a field battery was the EME warrant who ran our maintenance organization in A Battery 1 RCHA in Germany over forty years ago.

The question is which of the warrants in a battery are the TSMs of the gun troops, with all that that entails in the running of the troops, ammunition control and a host of other duties. Hopefully someone who has current knowledge will answer it. 

 

Petard

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I'm not sure it really matters (see last sentence)

If it is the case of some kind of garrison thing, ordinarily the BC and BSM will designate who will fill in for the BSM while they're away, usually it is the most Senior WO in TI or in experience in that Bty.

In the Field it is very unlikely you will have all those WO's in one place. I'll take a swipe at this to try and make sense of it (and before I get dog piled, yes I'm well aware there's going to be a lot of variation to this from  one unit to the next). Anyhow I'll try and look at each WO Position in turn, in general terms.

The only WO postion I know of at the OP end is the Tech that works for the BC, usually situated at the FSCC though. OP Det Commander is a Sgt position.
The BQMS used to be the step up to the BSM, but that was long ago, back when BSM's went on Recce and an Echelon with BQ stores deployed with the Bty. Given the dispersed Ops of individual Tps' that goes on now it is just not very practical (or sensible) to take the BQMS away from their CSS duties for long. It's also very rare too to have anything that resembles an Ech.
The CP Det Commander is usually more junior to the gun line TSM, and may not have received Recce Training, so it is not very practical for that person to step up to even the TSM's postion in some cases. Oddly it doesn't work the other way either, there are TSM's out there now who are not trained in the CP and can't act as duty officer in CP.
This leaves the gun line and recce TSM as you've labelled them. In reality I would be surprised if you had both, but lets suppose you did, then generally they take turns as to who does Recce and who does gun line. More often than not you only have one, and if the TSM goes on recce then the Senior Gun Detachment Commander fills in. Recce is usually not too far away from the gun group now anyway.

Of course given the spasms of transformation that have been going on, what any Bty's ORBAT looks like at any given time can vary greatly.
 

Petard

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The next question should be, what does the BSM do?
Does he always stay with the BC as is done in HR units now? (Much like the CSM travels with an OC)

Given the recent TFA experience it might seem like it is the FSCC WO, but what happens when the Bty is deployed as a whole and there is an ech, and a lot of ammo being pushed, then what? Can the FSCC WO go down there to look after an Ech?

If not that, and we're talking about disciplinary matters or admin like HTLA decisions etc, then it really goes to who is appointed by the BC on the BSM's advice,and you ought to know that it is not always the FSCC WO that is tagged.

The BSM's responsibilities, like so many things these days, are changing a great deal in some ways and hanging onto legacy in another. Who fills in for the BSM while that person is away depends on what BSM responsibility needs looking after.
 

snowpuncher

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It is the BQ He/She  is the most senior WO  in the battery at least that is how 2rcha runs the show. I have also seen it doine in 1rcha to.
 

Petard

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You're coming to the party rather late snowpuncher, and I'm not so sure you read through the posts

As for how 2 RCHA, or any of the other Regiments for that matter, "runs" things when it comes to replacing BSM's, I would still say it depends mostly on what that particular Bty is doing at the time (high readiness training, deployed, reconstitution post tour, etc)
There is no set pattern and I would definitely challenge you on the notion that the BQMS is always the most senior WO anyway, I've just as often seen the BQMS role filled by a Sgt (pick any Regt), but it really doesn't matter given the original question was who should replace the BSM, and as I've said already it depends on where the Bty is, and what duties the BSM needs covered off.
 

GnyHwy

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It most certainly depends on the situation and it could vary day to day.  I will say that the FSCC WO is out.  He is 21/C to FSCCO and has far too much immediate responsiblity to be taken away.  That said, the FSCC in my experience absorbs some of the BSM duties ie. manning, ammo allotment.  As well we deployed an Adm O (jnr O) to take care of menial time consuming admin tasks.

For my Roto our BSM travelled with the BC and only missed a couple of  trips. 

If the Bty were deployed as a whole then you could potentially see a gunline TSM filling that role and the other TSMs covering the entire gunline but, likely only for a short time.  If the troops were dispersed, which is the norm for now the gunline TSM has a troop to look after and should not be distracted as his Officer is likely junior.

Leaving the BQ.  For our tour the BQ was the BSM's replacement.  The BQ should always be senior for a number of reasons.  Dealing with outside agencies, ammo ordering and a very good knowledge of all the needs of the Bty.  A Sgt could cover  for a BQ and  in training I did it as a Bdr but, to do that in theatre is a recipe for disaster.
 
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