What were the greatest battles for Canada in WW1/WW2?

[onecat]

"Was it Currie? Anyone else? How about intellect - did McNaughton beat them all"

My choice is Currie, he developed the tactics needed to win at Vimy, stood up to Haig and told him we would go when we were ready. And if the war had lasted one more year, he going to replace to haig as lead general. Now I don‘t think any other Canadian commander has come that close to leading other armies.

 

[onecat]

"To my way of thinking, anyone that served overseas willingly and ably was a hero. Some of those poor *******s went to the UK in 1939 and didn‘t come home until 1946. Home leave didn‘t exist for the vast majority of the Canadian Army in this period."

I‘m not sure if I would agree with that. Just signing up and going overseas doesn‘t make you a hero. Does it take guts, yes but that doesn‘t make you a hero. In some cases going oversea would of been easier, then staying home. Life in a factory isn‘t fun and to keep up with war production I‘m sure they worked over-time and lost of it. In some ways that might be harder than being a soldier being overseas and being carefree when your not at the front. Being a hero takes a special action and selfless act, and going overseas isn‘t one of them in my books. My grandpa was there from 1939 on, and he joined to get out of Acton, and see things he would be never see again. And from talking to him most of his mates joined pretty much the same reasons.

Answer to the question can never be really answered as everyone has own ideal of a hero.

 

[Marti]

My choice is Currie, he developed the tactics needed to win at Vimy

most of the tactics used at Vimy were already developed and practiced by the French, including locating German artillery positions using hearing stations. but, i guess Currie should be commended for braking away from British practices and building on what the French had learned.

i think Simmonds was more innovative than Currie, among other things, he developed some good ideas for combined operations (although this was while he was at staff college) and tryed to implement these during the landings in Sicily.

as far as being a hero is concerned i‘m going to have to agree with radiohead. i think a hero goes above and beyond the sacrifice that everyone else makes just by being there, and deliberately puts themselves in danger for the bennefit of the others in the unit.

 

[Jungle]

most of the tactics used at Vimy were already developed and practiced by the French, including locating German artillery positions using hearing stations. but, i guess Currie should be commended for braking away from British practices and building on what the French had learned.

The French had been working on "sound ranging" but with limited success. The British had worked on "flash spotting" again with limited success. McNaughton took both techniques, developped them to a point where they could pinpoint individual guns and take them out.
The CDNs at Vimy also invented indirect fire with machineguns, they were the first to issue orders down to the rifleman, the first to carry out large scale rehearsals, they perfected raiding techniques, and the list goes on...
Two men are responsible for all this: Currie and McNaughton.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

radiohead said:

Being a hero takes a special action and selfless act

marti said:

i think a hero... deliberately puts themselves in danger for the bennefit of the others in the unit.

I dunno, enlisting for six years, or even the simple act of not running away when the going got tough, seems to be a "special action" or "selfless act" to me. They all had a choice until November 1944 about whether they would go over or not.

What about the poor old grunt who served for months in a frontline unit, solid, reliable - never won any bravery medals, and had his leg taken from him the day before he came home? I still think he deserves to be remembered with the same amount of respect and gratitude as the "hero" who throws himself on a grenade.

I guess I never bought that "cult of individual" stuff that American movies sell to us. Given the dearth of comic-book treatment of Canadian "heroes" (think Rambo) I‘d have to think I‘m not alone in that respect in this country, but the point about all of us having our own definition of "hero" is apt.

I‘m all for giving our VC winners their due - they had that extra something special - but I hate the thought of reducing the sacrifices of those other unnamed thousands to nothing by comparison.

 

[Coniar]

I‘m not sure if I would agree with that. Just signing up and going overseas doesn‘t make you a hero. Does it take guts, yes but that doesn‘t make you a hero

Spending 6 years of your life away from home for your country is in many ways a heroic thing, not worthy of a VC mabey but I hope if you ever meet a veteran who drove supplys around for 6 years in whales that you would treat him with the same respect you would treat a soldier with a VC. In my mind both did something that had to be done for the war effort, if that guy hadnt stayed back and driven that truck mabey the soldier who won the VC would have had to...

we dwell on Dieppe (which accomplished nothing)

I think that something was acomplished at Dieppe, not much and I dont belive it was worth the price but it did in many ways set the stage for Normandy. Going back to my original post where I mentioned Pachendale, that in many ways set the stage for Vimy, but at a resonable cost in men and munitions, whereas Dieppe cost the lives of to many for to little advancment. In both cases we learned from our mistakes.

 

[Art Johnson]

Conair the Battle of Passchendeale was after Vimy Ridge. Vimy was in April of 1917, Easter weekend, Passchendeale didn‘t begin till July of 1917.

 

[Marti]

this issue of heroism is just a matter of semantics. i agree that all those who participated in the war effort deserve our highest gratitude and respect, but as M. Dorosh said of VC winners "they had that extra something special" and that something special is what i associate with heroism.

about Vimy, most retellings of the battle downplay the influence of the French on the tactics used, i just wanted to bring that out. i should‘ve used ‘some‘ instead of ‘most‘ when quantifying these.

 

[Coniar]

It was??? well if that is in fact the case im exxtremly sorry and emmbarassed Im going to have to sign that book out of my local library again because I swear that was one of the main points in the book...

 

[Veteran`s son]

Were there any battles especially notable for the Royal Canadian Engineers serving with the Third Canadian Division in World War 2?

Did the Royal Canadian Engineers earn any battle honors in World War 2?

 

[Art Johnson]

I don‘t believe the Engineers have Battle Honours. There motto is Ubique (pardon my spelling if I am wrong) just like the Artillery they are part of every battle.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Art is right, we have been part of every battle, so therefore technicaly we carry every battle honour that the CF has. Can you imagine what our flag would look like with all of them on it.

That is the reason why our motto is "UBIQUE".

 

[Veteran`s son]

I believe that the 18th Field Company, Royal Canadian Engineers(as part of the Third Canadian Division) were involved in the Battle of the Scheldt(my spelling may be incorrect) and Leopold Canal.

Does anyone have information about these battles and what part the Third Canadian Division(and the 18th Field company, RCE) had in the battles?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Keep in kind that a regiment’s list of battle honours are not inclusive of every engagement in which the regiment was in action. They are the ones selected by the Regiment against the terms and conditions established in the appropriate Army Orders following each War.

For example, for the Second World War:

Participation in Operations
12. A battle honour will not be awarded merely because a unit was present in an operation. To qualify, the unit must:
(a) have been committed in the locality and within the time limits laid down for one of the individual operations defined below; (the full listing of possible Second War battle honours was included in the Army Order)
(b) Have been actively engaged with enemy ground troops;
(c) have taken a credible part on the operations;
(d) be proud of its part in the operations.


As for the Engineers hypothetically having a potentially busier flag [Colour] than other regiments, there were also strict guidelines on how many battle honours from each war could be emblazoned on a Regimental Colour:

… the list of Honours for the Great War for emblazonment on the Colours may not exceed ten, …. - Conditions for the Award of Battle Honours for the Great War 1914-1919, General Orders, 1 Feb 1928

Limitation of Honours to be Emblazoned.
Para 17. A maximum of ten Second World War honours, either battles, actions, engagements or theatres, may be emblazoned on the colours or appointments. - 33-1 Battle Honours – The Second World War, part “A” Supplement to Canadian Army Orders, 10 Sept 1956

2. (a) not more than two battle honours may be emblazoned. These may be either the theatre honour “Korea”, with approproiate year-ends dates added, and one other, or two named operaions; ….. - 33-1 Battle Honours – United Nations Operations – Korea, part “A” Supplement to Canadian Army Orders, 31 Mar 1958


Mike

 

[Nfld Sapper]

thanks for the clarification Mike.