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What Might Civil War Be Like?

mariomike

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Weinie said:
You are now claiming maybe it is a false flag.

Brad Sallows said:
No, but there are never enough conspiracy theories. 

I keep an open mind,

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01MV_RdZHgyac6QaGvlemuQkTvapQ%3A1599076482195&ei=gvhPX57FC8yoytMPlvCB8AE&q=%22false+flag%22+trump+bombs&oq=%22false+flag%22+trump+bombs&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQA1CFEFiFEGCJIWgAcAB4AIABc4gB1QGSAQMxLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiejsKNoMvrAhVMlHIEHRZ4AB4Q4dUDCAw&uact=5#spf=1599076483995

 

CBH99

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I don't think we are quite at the false flag level of organization yet MM. 

However, in civil war scenarios, they do happen and as sadistic as it is, they do serve a purpose.  (Germany, Balkans, Syria, the coup in Turkey, etc.)



False flag scenarios aren't so much a conspiracy theory, as much as they are a very cruel and dishonest way to manipulate a population into supporting something you are doing.  What makes them fodder for a conspiracy theory label is that, if done well & if no evidence is discovered, they are incredibly difficult to prove. 
 

Brad Sallows

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At some point it will start to penetrate minds that with all of the violence going on and so many leftists present, it is likely that most of it is due to the leftists. 
 

Weinie

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mariomike said:
I keep an open mind,

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01MV_RdZHgyac6QaGvlemuQkTvapQ%3A1599076482195&ei=gvhPX57FC8yoytMPlvCB8AE&q=%22false+flag%22+trump+bombs&oq=%22false+flag%22+trump+bombs&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQA1CFEFiFEGCJIWgAcAB4AIABc4gB1QGSAQMxLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiejsKNoMvrAhVMlHIEHRZ4AB4Q4dUDCAw&uact=5#spf=1599076483995
Whilst quoting an anti-Trump Goggle search
 

mariomike

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Weinie said:
I will refrain from the multiple comments that have wracked through my grey matter.

Right, Weinie.
 

Donald H

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CBH99 said:
I don't think we are quite at the false flag level of organization yet MM. 

However, in civil war scenarios, they do happen and as sadistic as it is, they do serve a purpose.  (Germany, Balkans, Syria, the coup in Turkey, etc.)



False flag scenarios aren't so much a conspiracy theory, as much as they are a very cruel and dishonest way to manipulate a population into supporting something you are doing.  What makes them fodder for a conspiracy theory label is that, if done well & if no evidence is discovered, they are incredibly difficult to prove.

False flag in the sense of a civil war in which both sides wave the same flag. That pertains to America's foreign wars quite often too, for example. The Kosovo war was Clinton's war and was pretty hotly opposed by the Republicans. The R's even went as far as accusing Clinton of false flag provocations in some cases.

It would seem to be pretty bold for either political side to try to pull off a false flag incident of any proportion against the opposing side.

In any case, if Trump loses it's not going to be pretty! Americans could reenact Guy Fawkes day in high style!
 

OldSolduer

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reverse_engineer said:
Both right and left can conduct false flag operations.  :boring:

Correct sir, another false flag is an intelligence operation. It's a successful ploy that sees the target spy for what they think is a friendly nation they may have sympathy for (ie Israel) but in actual fact is run by an enemy country (ie Russia).
 

shawn5o

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Donald H said:
False flag in the sense of a civil war in which both sides wave the same flag. That pertains to America's foreign wars quite often too, for example. The Kosovo war was Clinton's war and was pretty hotly opposed by the Republicans. The R's even went as far as accusing Clinton of false flag provocations in some cases.

It would seem to be pretty bold for either political side to try to pull off a false flag incident of any proportion against the opposing side.

In any case, if Trump loses it's not going to be pretty! Americans could reenact Guy Fawkes day in high style!

Hi Don

A little  candle light came in my grey mush for a brain with the word Kosovo.  I was in Wainwright training with my unit and was in camp to pick up some canex goods for our pl. My buddy and i stopped at Canex when a reporter (I think from the CBC) appraoched us and asked when we are going to Kosovo. Dave and I were dumbfounded as nothing came up in orders. Upon return to the field, we reported the strange encounter to higherups.

I don't when the Kosovo mission was approved but I'm pretty sure it after the ex.
 

Weinie

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Donald H said:
False flag in the sense of a civil war in which both sides wave the same flag. That pertains to America's foreign wars quite often too, for example. The Kosovo war was Clinton's war and was pretty hotly opposed by the Republicans. The R's even went as far as accusing Clinton of false flag provocations in some cases.

It would seem to be pretty bold for either political side to try to pull off a false flag incident of any proportion against the opposing side.

In any case, if Trump loses it's not going to be pretty! Americans could reenact Guy Fawkes day in high style!

Or maybe they will carry on with mid-American life as they have for 244 years. The only ones using fireworks lately are the left.
 

Donald H

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Weinie said:
Or maybe they will carry on with mid-American life as they have for 244 years. The only ones using fireworks lately are the left.

fwiw, Guy Fawkes day is the next day after their election.
 

Jarnhamar

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Weinie said:
Or maybe they will carry on with mid-American life as they have for 244 years. The only ones using fireworks lately are the left.

Thats going to disappoint so many Canadians who are obsessed with Trump.

10 minutes after Trump looses he's going to announce he's writing a book and move on to his next business adventure.
 

MarkOttawa

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A series of interviews on the John Batchelor Show on WABC Radio, NYC with MIchael Vlahos (more below):

A New Civil War

The John Batchelor Show with Michael Vlahos: #NewAmericanCivilWar
Episodes:
2020: Jan / Feb / Mar / Apr / May / Jun / July / Aug /
2019: Jan / Feb / Mar / Apr / May / Jun / July / Aug / Sep / Oct / Nov / Dec
2018: Jan / Feb / Mar / Apr / May / Jun / July / Aug / Sep / Oct / Nov / Dec
Older

"#NewAmericanCivilWar" is an ongoing conversation between Michael Vlahos and John Batchelor on The John Batchelor Show. Since May 2017, they have considered the idea that we may already be in a new American civil war and not realize it. Drawing on various historical and literary examples, Dr. Vlahos and Mr. Batchelor offer many rich discussions that illumine the increasingly disturbing divisions in American politics and culture. We are happy to catalog their whole conversation.

Dr. Vlahos recommends reading the following two articles to better understand his argument:

We Were Made for Civil War

Michael Vlahos, The American Conservative - October 29, 2018
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-were-made-for-civil-war/

​Civil division and its conquests are the true makers of America, and continue to shape its national progress—or threaten its undoing. Indeed, the very founding of the United States advanced the principle of civil conflict over all others.

​Civil War Begins When the Constitutional Order Breaks Down
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/civil-war-begins-when-the-constitutional-order-breaks-down/

Michael Vlahos, The American Conservative - November 4, 2019

​A Georgetown Institute poll finds that two-thirds of us believe we are edging closer “to the brink of a civil war.” Yet Americans cannot properly analyze this “gathering storm.” We lack a framework, a lexicon, and the historical data (from other civil wars) to see clearly what is happening to us. Here is a quick template for how we might more usefully decipher how this nation gets to another civil war.


Michael Vlahos is a writer and author of The BLUE Sword: The Naval War College and the American Mission, and  Fighting Identity: Sacred War and World Change. He has taught war and strategy at Johns Hopkins University and the Naval War College and is a weekly contributor to The John Batchelor Show. His weekly conversations with John Batchelor have been very nearly uninterrupted since 2001. Follow him on Twitter @JHUWorldCrisis...[audio follows at link]
https://www.anewcivilwar.com/newamericancivilwar

Mark
Ottawa


 

Donald H

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MarkOttawa said:
​A Georgetown Institute poll finds that two-thirds of us believe we are edging closer “to the brink of a civil war.” Yet Americans cannot properly analyze this “gathering storm.” We lack a framework, a lexicon, and the historical data (from other civil wars) to see clearly what is happening to us. Here is a quick template for how we might more usefully decipher how this nation gets to another civil war.

Mark
Ottawa

If all the Americans who don't have white skin were raptured up into the clouds suddenly, the issue of a civil war would be defused. There's no other issue strong enough to cause them to kill each other.

So no wonder they can't find the framework, the lexicon, the historical data. Half the country doesn't accept that racism is their differences.

What other issue could there be? Their political differences aren't all that differing from one party to the other, if racism can be disqualified as a factor.

Really just the same as their last civil war.
 

FJAG

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Remius said:
Assuming he accepts defeat.

If it's close I see contention on both sides.  So maybe 10 mins after they figure that part out.  He won't be writing any books but I see him doing speaking circuits, interviews everywhere peddling whatever conspiracy he will blame for his loss.  Assuming he loses.

I'm not sure the US will carry on as normal though.

The man revels in attention.

My guess would be immediately that it's ultimately decided that he lost (and my guess is regardless, this will end up before the USSC) he'll start rallies to justify why he was cheated and start a campaign for 2024 - either for himself or Ivanka. As long as someone else ponies up the money for the rallies and advertising he'll continue to try to keep hold of the attention. There will definitely not be a graceful retirement to write his memoirs.

:worms:
 

Fishbone Jones

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Donald H said:
If all the Americans who don't have white skin were raptured up into the clouds suddenly, the issue of a civil war would be defused. There's no other issue strong enough to cause them to kill each other.

So no wonder they can't find the framework, the lexicon, the historical data. Half the country doesn't accept that racism is their differences.

What other issue could there be? Their political differences aren't all that differing from one party to the other, if racism can be disqualified as a factor.

Really just the same as their last civil war.

I don't  think it's about racism. That's a tool being used to demonise the other side.
I think it boils down to career politicians losing their influence to make money and being able to shape national/ international policy to further their personal finances and influence.
Just my 2 cents.
 

FJAG

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Donald H said:
Would you be agreeable to adding?: And incite violence.
Because that's what I think he would do, while being cautious enough to stay within the law.

You know, I'm not sure about that. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and, believe it or not, that includes Trump.

I'm simply not sure if he's deliberately inciting violence. I don't doubt that much of what he says emboldens his supporters and enrages his detractors and that, as a result, violence at the street level happens. I'm just not sure if he consciously does that or not or whether it's as a result of his being incapable of understanding the consequences of his words and actions.

On the other hand, more recently, he seems to think that he can gain an advantage in November if he successfully lays blame for all the violence at the feet of the Democrats (which many of his followers believe to be true) and therefore the more strife there is the better he will appear as the law and order faint white hope.

:dunno:
 

Weinie

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FJAG said:
You know, I'm not sure about that. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and, believe it or not, that includes Trump.

I'm simply not sure if he's deliberately inciting violence. I don't doubt that much of what he says emboldens his supporters and enrages his detractors and that, as a result, violence at the street level happens. I'm just not sure if he consciously does that or not or whether it's as a result of his being incapable of understanding the consequences of his words and actions.

On the other hand, more recently, he seems to think that he can gain an advantage in November if he successfully lays blame for all the violence at the feet of the Democrats (which many of his followers believe to be true) and therefore the more strife there is the better he will appear as the law and order faint white hope.

:dunno:

What role/responsibility will a headline-seeking media play/accept in the aftermath of a scenario where the current POTUS loses on Nov 3? How much conjecture, completely separated from reality, will consume tons of trees/pixels?
 

a_majoor

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Two interesting articles here. One purports to identify the structure of Antifa at the tactical level, and has details which resonate with my readings of insurgencies and Revolutionary Warfare Theory. What is missing in open source literature is the higher levels where planning and coordination are taking place - I suspect that if the Insurrection Act were invoked the street level rioters could be dealt with relatively quickly, but there are always useful idiots who could be recruited to replace them.

ht<removethis>tps://archive.st/archive/2020/9/www.americanpartisan.org/6xsz/www.americanpartisan.org/2020/06/from-a-reader-a-look-at-antifas-field-organization/index.html

The second article suggests how this is an "info op" and how the media picture is being manipulated. Certainly the use of hostile "journalists" is already well known to many of us, what seems to have changed here is the scale and scope of information bottlenecking:

https://reason.com/2020/09/04/youre-not-allowed-to-film-the-fight-for-control-over-who-reports-from-portland/

DS NOTE: When I clicked on the first link, Malwarebytes blocked it with a Trojan warning. If you wish to proceed, cut and paste the link into your browser and delete the <removethis>.
 
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