What is a Veteran?
- Thread starter Acorn
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
Acorn said:
Thanks Acron you beat me to it
Please Spr039 elaborate, as it touches a nerve for me.
tess
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
yes please tell me how loading four friends on an aircraft , having your exploded armoured car recovered . making 2.4 km shots is differnt then any other war from what ive seen its always been 23 hours and 56 minutes of boredom then 6 min of panic as your leveling a house with a .50 cal
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Spr039 said:
Brother, having your comrade, your best friend sent home in a body bag is in my book a "tough moment" regardless of the lenght of time on tour. Would you like me to pass on to my friends that Cpl Murphy and his fellow soldiers shouldn't be vets. Cmon man that's asking for trouble.
[fixed your quote box - Infanteer]
S
Spr
Guest
Whoa everyone breath..take a look at my cap badge. You think I'm in a bubble here? I've loaded friends and bits of friends into body bags, been in the "two way shooting gallery", picked through mass graves, even passed the funeral flag to a mother of a dead Sapper, I could go on. So I think I have earned the right to my opinion and in no way do I mean to take away from the sacrifices of others. My point is Veteran is strong word and brings with it some privilege and respect, which I don't think fully qualifies for the vast majority of pers that deploy on 6 month tours, there's a lot of strap hangers out there riding the coat tails of the few guys that actually experience "high-intensity" events in theatre.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
Absolutely no one is questioning your experience, but that experience, does not give you the right to make those comments. If you wanted to make a statement about the vast majority on 6 month stint, then point those people out and maybe give some examples.
You paint a broad stroke like that, just to take a dig at someone on this thread, then be prepared to have people questioning you.
tess
BTW I was a reservist who gave up school to go on my "6 month" tour too.
dileas
A
aesop081
Guest
the 48th regulator said:
You, spr039 and myself served on the same tour......
- Reaction score
- 5,514
- Points
- 1,360
This brings up a good [I think] question, "What, by definition and general consensus, is a vetran nowadays?
I think in the "olden" days it was pretty easy compared to the situation we have now.
I know the way I am leaning but must get yard work started so I will think while raking and try and put it on later tonight. I definitely do not consider myself a veteran [no tours] but an ex-military guy with 10 years service.
Bruce
EDIT: if this grows into a new topic we will split it off later, so, if inclined post away.
I think in the "olden" days it was pretty easy compared to the situation we have now.
I know the way I am leaning but must get yard work started so I will think while raking and try and put it on later tonight. I definitely do not consider myself a veteran [no tours] but an ex-military guy with 10 years service.
Bruce
EDIT: if this grows into a new topic we will split it off later, so, if inclined post away.
S
Spr
Guest
I agree with Bruce..."Veteran Status" warrants it s own thread.
I just brought up the subject over coffee with some guys I work with, a good cross section of experience and trades ... Medac Pocket, Afgahnistan, FRY, Somalia, Rawanda...Reg Force/Ress, Snr NCO's and Officers and it invoked lots of discussion, opinion and a ring of passion.
48th Regulator,
I'm thinking we've walked some of the same ground and I actually think that experience, does give US the right to make comments as opposed to those that heard/read about it or worse studied the concept for a course. WRT you giving up school to go an a tour, great, I wish more young Cdns would do the same it would make our country & society a better place. What about the reg force guys that give up seeing lots of firsts (born, steps, words, day of school,etc)? There's lots out there now that measure time away in years not months.
Quote"If you wanted to make a statement about the vast majority on 6 month stint, then point those people out and maybe give some examples". My informal poll over coffe a few minutes back, I brought this up beacause I didn't want to think I had some tainted view, and my sentiments were universal to the group. So where does the line get drawn for Vet Status? Do ground crew in Trenton loading a herc get the same credit as a rifleman in theatre? What about the guys in trg establishments that coord the trg event for the deplying unit? How about the guys manning the leave center, or the rear party guys that run top cover over the families of deployed pers? The list goes on...Everyone does their bit to make the big machine work.
BTW I've got just short of 3.5 years of 20 deployed on missions (and a few months on Dom Ops) and I don't consider myself a Veteran. I get all the compensation I need each mid/end month.
I just brought up the subject over coffee with some guys I work with, a good cross section of experience and trades ... Medac Pocket, Afgahnistan, FRY, Somalia, Rawanda...Reg Force/Ress, Snr NCO's and Officers and it invoked lots of discussion, opinion and a ring of passion.
48th Regulator,
I'm thinking we've walked some of the same ground and I actually think that experience, does give US the right to make comments as opposed to those that heard/read about it or worse studied the concept for a course. WRT you giving up school to go an a tour, great, I wish more young Cdns would do the same it would make our country & society a better place. What about the reg force guys that give up seeing lots of firsts (born, steps, words, day of school,etc)? There's lots out there now that measure time away in years not months.
Quote"If you wanted to make a statement about the vast majority on 6 month stint, then point those people out and maybe give some examples". My informal poll over coffe a few minutes back, I brought this up beacause I didn't want to think I had some tainted view, and my sentiments were universal to the group. So where does the line get drawn for Vet Status? Do ground crew in Trenton loading a herc get the same credit as a rifleman in theatre? What about the guys in trg establishments that coord the trg event for the deplying unit? How about the guys manning the leave center, or the rear party guys that run top cover over the families of deployed pers? The list goes on...Everyone does their bit to make the big machine work.
BTW I've got just short of 3.5 years of 20 deployed on missions (and a few months on Dom Ops) and I don't consider myself a Veteran. I get all the compensation I need each mid/end month.
- Reaction score
- 4,818
- Points
- 1,060
We can discuss this back and forth. It's one opinion against another. However, I think the point has to be made that Veterans and Veteran Status is/are defined by the Royal Canadian Legion, Dominion Command, the Legion bylaws and the DVA. The change to all the new inclusions was made some years ago. It was done because the exisiting definition at that time was very restrictive. Given what it used to be, there would be very few Veterans left in a few more years. There are few enough (the original ones) as it is that survive and belong to the Legion anymore. It was looked as a way to bolster the ranks and provide an honour to the current crop of Servicmen for what they do. The decision was agonized over for some time, and I for one am not going to second guess them.
S
Spr
Guest
Recceguy,
Well said..
Well said..
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Just a question, but are the former members of the various non-combatant branches who served during the second world war also considered veterans? I dont mean the zombies who never left Canada, but the mechanics, supply troops, clerks etc who were deployed overseas, and may or may not have been exposed to fire during operations?
edited for spelling mistake
edited for spelling mistake
- Reaction score
- 4,818
- Points
- 1,060
Yes.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
again,
this is not to hijack the thread. But, to be candid it does fit within the theme. Maybe the lads who's names we have used, will read this and understand what it is to serve and be proud...anyhoo
Spr039
Chimo brother, and yes we did walk the very same tortured lands (man that sounds very poetic eh, part of my goal to add in old English words and verse to my vocabulary..)
Fair enough on your ideas. I did not take a poll with the people I have coffee with, the guys I have served with, or, for that matter the people I share my views with on a website.
You see, I have had to deal with that kind of feeling from alot of people after my time overseas. I only have gone on 1 (count that one) tour. That's it Thats all. Exact same one you went on actually. UNPROFOR 94/95, OP HARMONY. I have already chirped about that.
But why did your post irk me? Well, you see, after I was injured I had the "undeserved" privilege of having to carry a Veteran Affairs card. Every time I have to seek medical attention for my disabilities, I am questioned about me being a "Veteran". I am told I don't look like one. Too young to be one.
Hmmm every morning I wake up and I have a splitting headache, because of the rounds embedded in my head reminds me why they are there.
Everytime I have to ask people to repeat their words... well I remember why that happens...as my left ear was blown off...
Every time I have to stop because of the aches an pains for the missing pieces in my body..I know why...
Everytime I wake up in a cold sweats in the middle of the night...I remember why...
So yep,
I did not see my buddies die. My children did not grow up while I was away. I do not have to be pushed in a wheel chair, or have too many grey hairs (OK I lied I have a head full of 'em).
But I still do not see why we do not qualify as vets. What is it we got to do? Tell me. I Will show up to your coffee club and have a chat. I don't want to be feted, far form that. I just want this piss poor attitude to go away. I think I have explained the BS I have to to go through, even to just get a new prescription for glasses, let alone being accepted by civvies who have to deal with vets. That attitude is only promoted by my brothers in arms, "yep yer not a vet".
To be a vet does not mean being a super hero, by a simple definition it means to experience something. I gave myself to my country. I served it proudly, and love it. I almost died form my country, with half my head sitting in my lap. So ya I do get pissed when the likes of a soldier, one who even served on the same tour as I , claims that what we did really does not add up to a veteran' service for our country.
Spr039 , I don't need you to respond to this post. Hey, we can start a new one and go on. But, from the response you have received, by others, as well as myself, your opinion is in the minority in this coffee club.
As for the Reserve, and school punch I took, it was in response to your dig at Bkells;
So thanks for the compliment of me taking time off, and I do commend your dedication to the reg force.
Chimo and Dileas Brother.
Bruce
I apologize for hijacking this thread, but in the context, maybe it is good for the deserters to see what we consider a soldier, veteran and a yellow bellied coward to be, all in one thread....
tess
this is not to hijack the thread. But, to be candid it does fit within the theme. Maybe the lads who's names we have used, will read this and understand what it is to serve and be proud...anyhoo
Spr039
Chimo brother, and yes we did walk the very same tortured lands (man that sounds very poetic eh, part of my goal to add in old English words and verse to my vocabulary..)
Fair enough on your ideas. I did not take a poll with the people I have coffee with, the guys I have served with, or, for that matter the people I share my views with on a website.
You see, I have had to deal with that kind of feeling from alot of people after my time overseas. I only have gone on 1 (count that one) tour. That's it Thats all. Exact same one you went on actually. UNPROFOR 94/95, OP HARMONY. I have already chirped about that.
But why did your post irk me? Well, you see, after I was injured I had the "undeserved" privilege of having to carry a Veteran Affairs card. Every time I have to seek medical attention for my disabilities, I am questioned about me being a "Veteran". I am told I don't look like one. Too young to be one.
Hmmm every morning I wake up and I have a splitting headache, because of the rounds embedded in my head reminds me why they are there.
Everytime I have to ask people to repeat their words... well I remember why that happens...as my left ear was blown off...
Every time I have to stop because of the aches an pains for the missing pieces in my body..I know why...
Everytime I wake up in a cold sweats in the middle of the night...I remember why...
So yep,
I did not see my buddies die. My children did not grow up while I was away. I do not have to be pushed in a wheel chair, or have too many grey hairs (OK I lied I have a head full of 'em).
But I still do not see why we do not qualify as vets. What is it we got to do? Tell me. I Will show up to your coffee club and have a chat. I don't want to be feted, far form that. I just want this piss poor attitude to go away. I think I have explained the BS I have to to go through, even to just get a new prescription for glasses, let alone being accepted by civvies who have to deal with vets. That attitude is only promoted by my brothers in arms, "yep yer not a vet".
To be a vet does not mean being a super hero, by a simple definition it means to experience something. I gave myself to my country. I served it proudly, and love it. I almost died form my country, with half my head sitting in my lap. So ya I do get pissed when the likes of a soldier, one who even served on the same tour as I , claims that what we did really does not add up to a veteran' service for our country.
Spr039 , I don't need you to respond to this post. Hey, we can start a new one and go on. But, from the response you have received, by others, as well as myself, your opinion is in the minority in this coffee club.
As for the Reserve, and school punch I took, it was in response to your dig at Bkells;
So thanks for the compliment of me taking time off, and I do commend your dedication to the reg force.
Chimo and Dileas Brother.
Bruce
I apologize for hijacking this thread, but in the context, maybe it is good for the deserters to see what we consider a soldier, veteran and a yellow bellied coward to be, all in one thread....
tess
- Reaction score
- 3,104
- Points
- 1,160
Good post, Tess... I despise that frickin card too, especially out here in BF nowhere. A retired soldier is as rare as rocking horse poop out here. I always ask if that darn horn on my head grew back or something....
CHIMO, Kat
CHIMO, Kat
Trinity
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
If i reply.. you know a thread has been hijacked
First of all. I have government websites...
Can't find a definition of Veteran....
But The Veterans affairs site did mention the Pension act defines vets as anyone
who was injured during peace or war time service.. of course i lost that link..
I did find this
2. Veterans Disability Pension Program
Veterans Affairs Canada (HRDC) administers a disability pension program that is governed by the Pension Act. Pension payments are provided to individuals whose disabilities result from military service, during either wartime or peacetime.
Canadians may be eligible for disability pension benefits if they have a permanent disability resulting from an injury or disease that is attributable to, incurred during, or was aggravated by service during the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, a Special Duty Area or a Special Duty Operation.
Canadians may also be eligible for a disability pension if they have a permanent disability that arose out of, was aggravated by, or is directly connected with peacetime Regular or Reserve Force service in the Canadian Forces.
http://www.sdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=/en/hip/odi/documents/Definitions/Definitions007.shtml&hs=pyp
Is Bosnia and other tours Special duty ops?
hell.. the dictionary is even worse for being loose about the defintion... anyone who has served is considered a vet.
Especially in the American Army.. you serve, your considered a vet (please correct if thats wrong)
Point is.. IMO - if people want to shoot at you and are in uniform - you're a vet...
But i know Tess.... Vet status or not.. nothing is keeping him down.. He's kicked my rear end on a few
ruckmarches after his injury.
And if Tess isn't a Veteran... please tell me why there is a Museum display of him at the War Museum.
(my opinions are my own.. my spelling and grammer are your fault though)
First of all. I have government websites...
Can't find a definition of Veteran....
But The Veterans affairs site did mention the Pension act defines vets as anyone
who was injured during peace or war time service.. of course i lost that link..
I did find this
2. Veterans Disability Pension Program
Veterans Affairs Canada (HRDC) administers a disability pension program that is governed by the Pension Act. Pension payments are provided to individuals whose disabilities result from military service, during either wartime or peacetime.
Canadians may be eligible for disability pension benefits if they have a permanent disability resulting from an injury or disease that is attributable to, incurred during, or was aggravated by service during the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, a Special Duty Area or a Special Duty Operation.
Canadians may also be eligible for a disability pension if they have a permanent disability that arose out of, was aggravated by, or is directly connected with peacetime Regular or Reserve Force service in the Canadian Forces.
http://www.sdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=/en/hip/odi/documents/Definitions/Definitions007.shtml&hs=pyp
Is Bosnia and other tours Special duty ops?
hell.. the dictionary is even worse for being loose about the defintion... anyone who has served is considered a vet.
Especially in the American Army.. you serve, your considered a vet (please correct if thats wrong)
Point is.. IMO - if people want to shoot at you and are in uniform - you're a vet...
But i know Tess.... Vet status or not.. nothing is keeping him down.. He's kicked my rear end on a few
ruckmarches after his injury.
And if Tess isn't a Veteran... please tell me why there is a Museum display of him at the War Museum.
(my opinions are my own.. my spelling and grammer are your fault though)
- Reaction score
- 5,514
- Points
- 1,360
Tess,
No apology necessary,thank you for sharing that post.
No apology necessary,thank you for sharing that post.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Acorn said:
Canadian Forces has for many years been involved in undeclared Wars so to speak ergo the Definition of a Vet.
A Political declaration of War
If all our Militia and Reg under the U.S. system,we 10,000 would be considered Vets!!
(Bosnia)
Oh yes our system suck's to day as to benefits under the definition of "Veteran"
It's a play on word's!!
Similar threads
