Was I wronged?

[Paul Gillman]

Hey there. Ex-Gunner..75-81.
In 1981 after my return to Camp Shilo Manitoba from Lahr Germany I was told I had 6 months till my medical release kicked in. I was shocked. There was no warning, other than a medical condition that had been on going since my enlistment.

The reason for my release was Hemophilia. I was never diagnosed previously to joining the Army and on my entrance physical they said I was in A-1 shape for the military.
Hemophilia is a genetically blood clotting disorder you are born with and can't acquire any other way. My parents never knew.

I received a sports injury in basic that sidelined me for a while and the doctors there were a bit baffled as to why my injury took so long to heal.
I received my posting to Shilo after cornwallis and things were going well............then another minor injury that took a long time to heal. Now, the army had on my file, unresolved medical issues no over-seas postings. I know this because I volunteered for Islamabad and was refused. A few months later they asked if anyone wanted to go to Lahr W\Germany..I again volunteered and was accepted...Note that my medical condition that they knew about was still unresolved and apparently I shouldn't have gone over-seas with that status..

While in Germany I got in a horrific 5-ton accident and again damage in my leg, and knee took ages to heal...They did more tests and decided I had some blood problem that they thought was von-willibrands disease..A blood disorder similar to Hemophilia..Anyway...months later my 4 year tour was up and I got re-patted back to Shilo...And thats where I was told, Bombadier Gillman, your on a medical discharge effective 6 months...

Shocked, I started to find out how I could fight this discharge...I saw many doctors, civilian and military in Winnipeg..To the man they all said yes you have Hemophilia but not severe. You could re-muster into ANY trade other than combat arms...The army refused to give me remuster..I was getting the feeling I was being fast tracked out...They realized that I should never have been admitted into the Forces and that they were probably liable if anything happened and this came to light..Also, I should never have been posted over-seas with a un-resolved medical condition...Dang, back then they wouldn't even ship you out with a cavity till it was fixed...

No matter how hard I fought, no matter how many doctors forms I had stating that I was totally employable the army wouldn't listen..

After my release, which I never received a medical pension for..they said I had my problem before I joined so they were not liable for that..Nice.
I went through the pensions advocacy program but again was turned down for a pension, or a chance to re-inlist in another trade..

I wrote letters to politicians, got all my medical docs sent to me, basically tried everything I knew...

Years later I heard about the Human Rights Commission..I told them my story and was told I had a very good case against the Military.....but........I had waited to long and the statute of limitations had run out..basically saying, "if you had contacted us 2 years earlier we would have resolved this case". I was so frustrated, one no one told me about the Human rights commission earlier, and 2, I felt the Military were hiding behind trivial legalities to avoid owning up to their responsibilities....

I've since developed Hepatitis C from tainted blood I received through one of my blood product needs..I'm unable to work due to the sever side-effects I have and now Ive been told I have Chirosis of the Liver...

This will sound melodramatic but I have always felt abandoned by my Country because of this. I was willing to die for Canada during the height of the cold-war. I was considered a front line soldier in the event of war for 4 years.....I considered that a tremendous honor and didn't regret a moment of my time in Lahr..

Then to have the Army deny me re muster and a pension..then to rub salt into the wound by saying, well it's not our responsibility you did have this condition before you joined.......was just too much.

They endangered my life by posting me over-seas into a potential front line situation with a un-resolved medical condition...They told me at the recruit physical I was in excellent shape...etc, etc....

I probably sound bitter and angry..and I guess to a small degree I still am...but believe me not nearly as frustrated as I once was....

At times I still can't believe the Canadian Government didn't step up to the plate for me on this one...

Stuff happens in life..I realize that, but if I owed the Government something they sure as all get out would make sure I payed up...

Anyway, just curious if this has happened to anyone else and what was the outcome...

Thanks for reading...

 

[Synthos]

A friend of mine is getting released because he gets sea-sick below deck. Nothing serious by any means. Even I get sea sick if the conditions are nasty enough.

Medical reasons seem to be really touchy with the military.


I feel for you

 

[beach_bum]

The reason for my release was Hemophilia. I was never diagnosed previously to joining the Army and on my entrance physical they said I was in A-1 shape for the military.
Hemophilia is a genetically blood clotting disorder you are born with and can't acquire any other way. My parents never knew.

After my release, which I never received a medical pension for..they said I had my problem before I joined so they were not liable for that..Nice.

Years later I heard about the Human Rights Commission..I told them my story and was told I had a very good case against the Military.....but........I had waited to long and the statute of limitations had run out..basically saying, "if you had contacted us 2 years earlier we would have resolved this case". I was so frustrated, one no one told me about the Human rights commission earlier, and 2, I felt the Military were hiding behind trivial legalities to avoid owning up to their responsibilities....

I've since developed Hepatitis C from tainted blood I received through one of my blood product needs..I'm unable to work due to the sever side-effects I have and now Ive been told I have Chirosis of the Liver...

Stuff happens in life..I realize that, but if I owed the Government something they sure as all get out would make sure I payed up...

Wow.  I'm really sorry to hear of your troubles first of all.  That must be rough.  However, I don't understand what you feel you are owed.  The military is not responsible for your condition.  It is something you had prior to joining.  As far as them stating you were fit during the recruit medical, no one knew you had this condition, so, as far as they knew, you were.  You didn't get a medical pension because the army didn't cause your injury.

 

[chrisf]

A friend of mine is getting released because he gets sea-sick below deck. Nothing serious by any means. Even I get sea sick if the conditions are nasty enough.

Medical reasons seem to be really touchy with the military.

Wouldn't remustering to the army or airforce be a viable option?

 

[Paul Gillman]

Thanks for the replies:

Beachbum: One: Hemophilia is not some obscure disease. It's a simple blood test. Why wouldn't the Army have that incorporated into their testing?
Two: They shipped me over-seas with a unresolved medical condition when a few months previous turned me down for UN duty for the same reason????

Three: I received injuries whilst in the forces to to sever trauma to joints and muscles cause by my hemophilia..thus them saying I had a un-resolved Med condition.
Aren't they responsible for that at least?

Four: Why wouldn't they let me re-muster? I had top notch doctors saying I would be totally fine in a support role job...??

Five: ...Can't think of more at the moment, but I know there is others  :

 

[combat_medic]

Paul,

One: Blood testing is not part of the recruiting process, so there is no way they would have known about it. It is exceptionally rare that a person could have a disease like hemophilia and not be made aware of it until they became an adult.

Two: They obviously didn't think the condition serious enough to blacklist you for overseas service. Also, a UN tour is more dangerous than an overseas posting, so a medical condition that would prevent you from a peacekeeping operation may not be serious enough to prevent you from going on a posting. Not to mention, you volunteered to go overseas, they didn't force you. You knew you had an "unresolved medical condition" and made the decision to go overseas of your own free will, rather than staying at home and going for testing.

Three: The military is responsible for all the injuries you received while in their service. If you are still suffering from the injuries you received that are attributable to military service, you should be eligible for benefits from Veterans Affairs. If the injuries are because of a pre-existing medical condition, they may not be liable.

Four: Because any disease as serious as hemophilia bars you from service. Period. If would be the same if you were a diabetic - even if it were controllable with medication, you do not meet the minimum requirement for service, no matter what some civvie doc tells you. The medical standards are not flexible, and the military would be liable for all of your medications and treatments. Not to mention that if you were injured on your own time (let alone through military training) you are more of a liability because you are far more likely to bleed to death, and, as you already mentioned, take forever to heal


Your situation and condition are most unfortunate, and for that you have my sympathy. However, the CF did not give you this condition, and therefore are not liable for it. Not to mention, it is at their discretion whom they hire, and they have set the medical standards to not allow those with hemophilia in. It is their decision to make, and it has apparently been made.

 

[beach_bum]

Thanks Combat_Medic.    You got there before I did.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

A friend of mine is getting released because he gets sea-sick below deck. Nothing serious by any means. Even I get sea sick if the conditions are nasty enough.

Medical reasons seem to be really touchy with the military.


I feel for you

If you are sea sick enough and unable to do your job of course they will get you off a ship and either remuster or release you.

 

[Paul Gillman]

"Combat medic: Thanks for your input, but you're mistaken on a few points.

Over seas duty of ANY kind is verbotten with a un-resolved medical condition.


How do you know without blood test if someone you're recruiting has a highly contagious disease, such as Hep-C or HIV? A physical is just that , a physical.
When I have one with my doctor the first thing that's ordered is blood work. Why should the military be exempt from that?

Once they knew I had a medical problem they did NOTHING to help me with it. Instead the contradicted themselves.

I had Officers tell me off the record they couldn't understand why I was fast-tracked out. I was up for accelerated promotion, I had top scores in all my courses and was always praised for my performance on any crew.













I have medical records that clearly show that one medical officer sent a memo to another saying my release should be expedited to ensusre no further complications.
They obviously were worried about something..IE: If I got hurt seriously the repercussions for not resolving my condition for 6 years for one.

The human rights commision said they felt I was totally warrented to feel grieved, but because of time limitations couldn't help....

Sorry, but owning up to responsibility and liablility should be a mandate of any government agency.Especiall the Canadian Armed Forces.

After all they violated at least 2 of their own rules.

If they have rules about who to let in, medically speaking, then wouldn't it stand to reason to test people for that problem?

You don't want hemphiliacs in? Then you ensure you test for that..Make sense?

 

[DBA]

From eMedicine - http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3528.htm "The diagnosis of mild hemophilia may be masked by factors that elevate FVIII levels (age, ABO blood type, stress, exercise). Early diagnosis of HB may be complicated by physiologically low levels of all vitamin Kâ “dependent procoagulant factors. "

It's uncommon begin with and to have it undiagnosed into adulthood more so. A simple clotting test at the time  probably would miss it in your case. The more advanced tests are more likely to catch it but would probably not be done unless somebody suspected a problem which the simple test would make them think there wasn't.  After a history of multiple slow healing events, especially in joints that would  hint towards a problem and the more complex tests would be run.

You wouldn't get a pension for the hemophilia itself but if on release you were in worse shape than you joined up to the extent quality of life or ability to work is diminished should have been entitled to one. For example if after the accident you never recovered full mobility or strength. There are also CPP/QPP pensions available to hehemophiliacsfor Hep C there should be some money from the tainted blood settlements.

The re-muster denial seems odd. If your recovered enough from injuries sustained while in the CF to not be entitled to a pension you should then be fine for working in the CF at jobs that match the medical restrictions you would have after being diagnosed. Time limits on appeals can be challenged in court by a lawyer if some special circumstances can be shown to exist but it's hard and costly. Probably not worth the aggravation when you already dealing with hepatitis and hemophilia.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

dude! when were you in the army again? 80's well alot has changed since then esp. in the medical field. I agree with everyone thats says if you had it before the army the army has every right to turn you down , thats just the way it is! but they should have offered you a remuster , but back then the system didn't know how to handle special cases , so they just kicked good troops out! sorry!

 

[combat_medic]

Paul: It is not the responsibility of the CF to check your blood. Neither do they do lung capacity checks for those with asthma (or who are unaware) or allergy tests for those with severe allergy problems. You are required to disclose your entire medical history when you join. If you get in and find out later you have severe asthma, diabetes, schitzophrenia, or any pre-existing condition, you're out. Not to mention, I go for a medical every year, and have only had bloodwork taken at my own request, when there was something to be checking for.

It happens every now and then that people find out about a condition AFTER they join, and other times they lie about their medical status in order to enroll. Those who lie are subject to dismissal with disgrace and jail time. Those who find out later are subject for dismissal, and you agreed to this when you signed the dotted line.

As for your overseas experience, you're placing a lot of blame on everyone else. Yes, they probably should have run more tests on you, but you knew that there was something wrong and, rather than trying to find out what it was, VOLUNTEERED to go overseas, and knowingly subjected yourself to a dangerous environment rather than taking care of your own health.

Not to mention, are you telling me that throughout your childhood, you never had any kind of injury? Hemophilia doesn't suddenly appear - you're born with it. You never broke a limb or had a serious injury and then noticed the same prolonged healing time? You or your parents never suspected anything when you would bruise easily and they wouldn't go away for months? Even with really mild hemophilia, it seems incredibly unlikely that you never had any symptoms until adulthood.

Finally, you cannot serve in the CF with a severe medical condition; CS/CSS trade or not, you are still required to go on exercise, do the PT tests, fire the weapons annually, and do generally more demanding work. Even in a sedentary job you are at a much higher risk to hurt yourself, and will be debilitated far longer than everyone else. The CF has every right not to hire you, and had every right to let you out. The army didn't give you hemophilia, and they, therefore, are not liable for it.

 

[armyvern]

Beachbum: One: Hemophilia is not some obscure disease. It's a simple blood test. Why wouldn't the Army have that incorporated into their testing?

Haemophelia is not obscure, but it is extremely rare to progress to adulthood without having it diagnosed.
Whay dont't all family doctors therefore incorporate this into their testing? Because tests are not run until symptoms/problems are detected. Again, I find it almost incomprhensible how a small child, as active and accident prone as they are, would not raise alarms bells with family/physicians when, in the case of even relatively minor injuries to the non-affected, such as scratched knees can cause severe bleeding even death in the haemopheliac.

Two: They shipped me over-seas with a unresolved medical condition when a few months previous turned me down for UN duty for the same reason????

Again, they did not suspect your on-going medical condition was haemophelia, nor did you. There is a huge difference between posting someone into an operational overseas theatre such as Cyprus etc, or posting them to CFE. Let's face it, CFE, specifically Lahr, had a very large operational Base Hospital which delivered chirldren, performed surgeries and provided hospital care to all military dependants during the time of your posting to Lahr. Not to mention the easy access to nearby US Military Hospitals in Heidelberg, Rammstein, Karlshrue etc should it be required. No offense, but Lahr was essentially just another Base and is /was not comparable to serving in an overseas operational theatre, despite it being 'overseas.'

Three: I received injuries whilst in the forces to to sever trauma to joints and muscles cause by my hemophilia..thus them saying I had a un-resolved Med condition.
Aren't they responsible for that at least?

"caused by your haemophelia" is the important part of your quote above. "Un-resolved" simply means they are still trying to figure out what exactly is causing the problem..and you admit that they were trying to find out (diagnose) and actually suspected von Willebrand syndrome (which commonly involves bleeding from the mouth and nose). Therefore you were obtaining proper medical care. They were treating your known injuries caused by the accident/sports injury, and were attempting to diagnose the issue of pro-longed healing. Pro-longed healing periods can be caused by many medical factors of which haemophelia is not even close to the top of the list to suspect in adults, due to the extreme rarity to surpass childhood without it already being diagnosed.

Four: Why wouldn't they let me re-muster? I had top notch doctors saying I would be totally fine in a support role job...??

Unfortunately, in the case of a brain tumor (that would be me), surgery corrected my problem (but left me deaf on the left). Haemophelia, to date, is still not 'curable' and therefore you were not retainable for further service once diagnosed. It sucks, but that's the nature of the disease and the long-term implications of it which decide suitability for service. In my case, I lucked out and you did not. I had something 'curable.'

Five: ...Can't think of more at the moment, but I know there is others    :

Should the CF run CT scans/MRIs on all applicants as well to rule out un-diagnosed brain tumors? After all they are just simple tests as well, a tad bit more expensive than most blood testing, but simple none the less. Rest assured, even though we are able to collect VAC benefits while serving, those benefits are related to injuries caused by Military service. I do not get a VAC pension due to my tumor as it was not caused by my service, diagnosed during my service yes, but not caused by it. I also do not believe that I should be entitled to a pension for the fact that I now suffer permanent hearing loss because the Military failed to diagnose my tumor earlier in my service before it led to deafness. When I went to the Hosp with a problem, they did many things to figure out what was happening, then sent me for surgery, and got rid of the tumor, and unfortunately I will be deaf, that is also not the Military's fault, it is the tumors. The Military did perform it's duty to me, and I believe they did perform their duty to you.

 

[GO!!!]

Sorry Paul,

I feel bad for you, but your case is not the Army's fault.

While your service did take you overseas, Germany in the 80s was just like being posted to Canada. Big comfy quarters, PMQs, base hospitals, movie theatres, the works. That's why you could go there but not to Islamabad.

Your condition was present before you joined. No medical insurance co. on earth would pay out for a pre-existing condition, why should the CF?

There is no such thing as a support job. All soldiers can be killed and maimed, whether they be JTF assaulters or naval reserve cooks.

The army is responsible for any lasting effects you have from injuries sustained while employed by the CF, not before service, and not after.

 

[Paul Gillman]

I honestly appreciate all your posts, but I still hold to my belief the Army has a responsibility in this.

As for, "didn't you see that you were a bleeder(hemophiliac)before joining. The answer is a strong NO. And neither did my parents. They didn't believe me when I told them after the Army decided I was. Now, most of you only know what you hear about Hemophilia. Having it and Hep C I can inform you of certain aspects of it. One: They are varying degrees of the severity of Hemphilia. I am diagnosed as "mild". No, normal life and play didn't show it. I played hockey as a kid for crying out loud  hahaha, and that was before the limp wrists took the "bang" out of it.
Also, lets just say I grew up in Toronto in a area where you "needed" to defend yourself. Nope, didn't show up there either.

I'm not saying the Military owes me my life back..But if you saw the doctor's reports and their recommendations to the release board you would be scratching your head.
All the doctors I saw said the severity of my Hemophilia wasn't bad enough to be released. Some of you insisted that being posted to Germany was fine because of its hospital and peace time ease. I asked to be remustered into the Medical field........can you get much closer to care?

Sorry, but I was fast tracked and put out due to a over-sight in the military powers that be at the time.
I was also told be a ministers offcie that because of my case they were going to institute more stringent test in the entry physical. Whether they did or not, I have no idea.

Anyway, it's neither here nor there. What is, is.

We all have our handicaps....
Mine just happened to be so mis-treated that it left me without a career and feeling a bit cut off by my own country..Dramatic stuff huh?
:

 

[Blakey]

I'm sorry to hear about "your" unfortunate circumstances...That said.

The Army isn't responsible for every god damn thing that happens to people, suck it up.

 

[combat_medic]

Sorry, but I was fast tracked and put out due to a over-sight in the military powers that be at the time.

No you weren't, and statements like that are just placing blame elsewhere. You were fast tracked out because you have a serious and debilitating illness which does not allow you to serve. It doesn't matter if you have every doctor in the world say that they THINK you can serve; if you don't meet the medical requirements, you can't be in the CF, period. Mild hemophilia or not, you cannot have any kind of pre-existing medical condition that requires constant medication. Even as a medic you are often in the field, and most CF ambulances don't carry the kinds of anti-coagulants that a hemophiliac needs if they are injured. You are a liability as a soldier, like it or not, and so the CF won't allow you to be one.

Someone in a wheelchair could be a clerk, but are they allowed to be soldiers? How about someone with bipolar disorder; that's treatable with meds? You are not medically fit to be a soldier. The CF has set standards which you don't meet. Case friggin closed!

The army owes you nothing. They did not give you the disease. They did not make you sick. They did not force you to go overseas, nor did they cause the extent of your injuries. The army has no responsibility for you being a hemophiliac. If you want someone to place the blame on, try your parents - it's their genetics that gave you this.

 

[Trinity]

I honestly appreciate all your posts, but I still hold to my belief the Army has a responsibility in this.

OK.. I'm confused

you posted for what purpose?

We have people here in the field who are knowledgable and gave you sound advice and opinions
which is what you were asking for.

You then say, thanks, but I'm still right. 

Okay.  You received your feedback and because its not supporting your view your seemed
to have ignored it or set it aside so you can maintain your personal view.

No problem. But I think you have received your due process from the CF.  People here seem to
agree that you received your due process..


Question here asked and answered.

If you're looking for sympathy and understanding (which is totally ok and good) then by all means
get in contact with a counsellor or chaplain.

Question ASKED and ANSWERED. 

MODS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!