Videogames and the Army?

[Argyll]

I was playing  a game called Hidden and Dangerous 2, which is a squad-based FPS, and was wondering if the lessons I learned from the game could be used at work?  Same goes for games such as FSW and Rainbow 6 regarding urban ops and room clearing.  My personnal answer is that while some lessons can be taken, most of the time the fluid nature of the battlefield makes it difficult to apply a single standard, but that's obvious.  Thanks for your responses in advance.

 

[Blakey]

â Å“First to Fightâ ? will be used as a learning tool to teach Marines about close combat in urban terrain. The player leads a four-man fire team in close quarters urban combat in the streets of Beirut. The game incorporates many doctrines that are currently in use by infantry units deployed around the world. More than 40 active-duty U.S. Marines, ranking from privates to colonels, who recently returned from frontline fighting in the Middle East assisted in the creation of the game, according the game's official website.

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/0/49F2CC9331184B7C85256F43006F3395?opendocument

A while back they were also using a different game, (Quake I think) to teach these same principals.

[edit]Some screen shots of the game    http://media.pc.ign.com/media/673/673930/imgs_1.html   [/edit]

 

[Yeoman]

we play ghost recon 2 at work, we have a room full of xboxes
I haven't played in a couple of weeks though, can't till april at the earliest now, we should get online playing capability so we can play 3vp
Greg

 

[Blakey]

Is this "room full of xboxes" just for passing the time?, or does the unit actually use it for some kind of training value, ala the SAT Room?
Would be intersting if it was used for some sort of collective training, ive never heard of that sort of thing in the forces before.

 

[Yeoman]

Is this "room full of xboxes" just for passing the time?, or does the unit actually use it for some kind of training value, ala the SAT Room?
Would be intersting if it was used for some sort of collective training, ive never heard of that sort of thing in the forces before.

well always try to have some actual training. moving around in squads, there's a seperate room designated for just the enemy force guys. I say it's alot more fun of training then using the FATS system in my mind, but both are just as good training in my mind.
Greg

 

[GerryCan]

Well Greg I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.  Playing Ghost Recon at work doesn't really contribute any training value at all in my eyes. You can't really do too much in terms of coordinating thought out attacks, defenses or anything of the like with a Tom Clancy game, whereas the FATS/SATS trainer does a lot more for training value. ie; Marksmanship principles (which are always good to work on as much as possible) ROE training, and section based operations with real weapons. Sure the graphics aren't as good as your X-Box or computer at home, but big deal, it gets the point across.
In my opinion, Xbox's are among the first things that should never enter unit lines for the sole welfare of the troops. Guys play enough of that at home (I too am guilty), we dont need to do it at work too.

As for the Xbox's being brought into the unit: they were paid for out of our canteen fund to be used as a training aid of some sort. But like I said, I don't believe they're much of one. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[chriscalow]

Is that just 1 RCR?  Or is it a Regimental "training aid?"  I can't help but chuckle that at the fact that I'm getting such a hard time at the CFRC trying to join, just to get in and play Ghost Recon 2 (which I don't mind at all).  Obviously there is harder work to be done, but man, how am I supposed to tell my buddies at home, I play xbox and get paid to do it.  That just rules.  Cheers guys.

 

[GerryCan]

No it's not a Regimental training aid or any type of army wide training.

As I said, we have them because it was paid for by the troops out of the canteen fund.

 

[Fusaki]

Playing Ghost Recon at work doesn't really contribute any training value at all in my eyes.

You're not the only one.

For the record folks, 1RCR - as a whole - is NOT right outv'er. The general opinion among the troops is that the xbox room was a total waste of money. Who knows who's bright idea it was to make that purchase, but these days its more of a running gag then anything else.

 

[Chags]

I just left the great first Battalion, and never got the opportunity to "play" with the Xboxes.  That being said, the are a good (not great) training aid, IF USED PROPERLY.  The one thing that it is good for, is for communication at section level.. Well, that's about it.  The US Army uses "America's Army" as a recruiting tool and as a training aid.  Its an online game as well, with more detailed play (you have to relax your breathing in order to get a good sight picture, and you have to fix stoppages)

That all being said..  these are games, and nothing beats getting out to the field and shooting real bullets down range..  Or coming to CMTC and firing lasers at each other.. 

 

[JimmyPeeOn]

What about a pl/Coy level paintball game?  Thats pretty good for FIBUA.  Or maybe a snowball fight?  Another game you guys might wanna look at is Rainbow Six 3 Raven Shield. In that you can kit out your troops a lot better, theyre standard is an 8 man section, the AI is better and it can contain about 20 pers on a game without any serious lagging. There is also a lot of custom levels on the internet and a level making tool, so you can simulate any type of terrain/buildings you want.

But for me, if i get busted playing games at work, I think my Sgt would cut it off and put it in my pocket. 

Cheerz

 

[McAllister]

'Slicing the Pie' is a good little tactic learned in video games.  Sniper rifles are never done right though, even in 'Americas Army'. Yeah, in that game you can fix stoppages but all the guy does is tap the mag and pull the charging handle when you hit a key, if only it were that easy.

 

[48Highlander]

You can't really do too much in terms of coordinating thought out attacks, defenses or anything of the like with a Tom Clancy game

Actually, the original ghost recon is all about "coordniating thought out attacks", otherwise known as tactics.  In my opinion, it's a good simulator for section/platoon commanders, although it should be used more to develop already existing skills.  A civvie, or even your average rifleman, isn't going to get anything really useful out of it.

 

[DJFC2-5-2]

DRDC Ottawa or Toronto (Defense Research & Development Canada) are using video games to study communications at section level in asymmetric environment like urban warfare. Players are not right beside each others and wear headset and microphones to communicate. This is not for training but to analyse which difficulties are involves in this kind of warfare and build hypothesis on how to help solve the different issues.

 

[GerryCan]

Actually, the original ghost recon is all about "coordniating thought out attacks", otherwise known as tactics.  In my opinion, it's a good simulator for section/platoon commanders, although it should be used more to develop already existing skills.  A civvie, or even your average rifleman, isn't going to get anything really useful out of it.

I beg to differ. Regardless of how you decide where you're going to put your troops in the game, doesn't do anything to further develop already existing skills or 'tactics.' A 10 year old can do that. But I guess we are a different generation and some will defend precious video games over actual training in a heart beat.

 

[48Highlander]

I beg to differ. Regardless of how you decide where you're going to put your troops in the game, doesn't do anything to further develop already existing skills or 'tactics.' A 10 year old can do that. But I guess we are a different generation and some will defend precious video games over actual training in a heart beat.

You ever play the game?  Take the first map for instance.  You can send your troops all bum-blasting through an open field, and get them wiped out by enemy in a bunker, or you can devide them into teams, set waypoints for movement under cover from view, and surprise them by setting up a fire-base and flanking from the left.  In other words, if you want accomplish the mission wthout losing any of your men, you have to pu a lot of thought into proper use of terrain and possible enemy locations nd tactics.  I don't know too many 10 year olds that think on that level, and regaurdless, the fact is that using proper tactics in the game helps keep your team alive, which is good practice for doing the real thing.  Obviously you won't go from beng a video-game junky to beng a military tactics guru, but it's a good simulator.

 

[Yeoman]

Well Greg I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.   Playing Ghost Recon at work doesn't really contribute any training value at all in my eyes. You can't really do too much in terms of coordinating thought out attacks, defenses or anything of the like with a Tom Clancy game, whereas the FATS/SATS trainer does a lot more for training value. ie; Marksmanship principles (which are always good to work on as much as possible) ROE training, and section based operations with real weapons. Sure the graphics aren't as good as your X-Box or computer at home, but big deal, it gets the point across.
In my opinion, Xbox's are among the first things that should never enter unit lines for the sole welfare of the troops. Guys play enough of that at home (I too am guilty), we dont need to do it at work too.

As for the Xbox's being brought into the unit: they were paid for out of our canteen fund to be used as a training aid of some sort. But like I said, I don't believe they're much of one. Just my 2 cents though.

I can see what you mean by that nick, but so long as it's done right, it can be effective. just got to make sure you're sgt's and mcpl's muckle onto you and do the training right.
well after seeing some more of those scenarios in the fats, I can admit that those are better then what I thought.
and fusca; what the hell are you doing posting on here?!? go watch the gate or something!
Greg

 

[BDTyre]

The US Army uses "America's Army" as a recruiting tool and as a training aid.   Its an online game as well, with more detailed play (you have to relax your breathing in order to get a good sight picture, and you have to fix stoppages)

The official CF Army website actually has a small video feature on this, the goals behind it and how the US military has witnessed Canadians using it and how it could be beneficial for Canadians who are interested in the CF.

Seemed mostly to be propaganda for the US, especially when they threw in a "thank you" for helping in Afghanistan almost as an afterthought.

 

[CrimsonSeil]

I didn't like ghost recon orgiinal much. Most of the time I would hide and headshot everyone while the rest of my team shoots off anyone I don't see and usually most of the they dont even shoot.  :dontpanic: I think tactics should goto the turn-based games =D

 

[McAllister]

Ghost Recon 1 is great.  Multiplayer kinda weeds out the tactically stupid players as well. The human eye being attracted to movement is also a good lesson learned in multiplay. When you run around you seem to die quick. (on the big maps, anyway...)