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VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion

brihard

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milnews.ca said:
Still waiting ...Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice ...

For interest's sake, here are the current members of the policy advisory group.

Major (Retired) Mark Campbell
Brian Forbes, National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada
Michel Houle, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Master Warrant Officer (Retired) William MacDonald
Major-General John Milne
Luc O’Bomsawin, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
Brigadier-General (Retired) Joe Sharpe
Commodore (Retired) Andrea Siew
Colonel (Retired) Brad White, Royal Canadian Legion
 

TCM621

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milnews.ca said:
Since your laying a touch of blame there, there's a case to be made that Team Blue voted unanimously for it, had a chance to fix it (even with a majority government), and didn't, so they wear it from the last round.  Now, Team Red can fix it - with a majority of their own - but they're not ... Sadly ... #LikelyCostsTooMuch  #SupportAMileWideAndAnInchDeep
If there is one issue in Canada that is truly bi-partisan it is lack of support for the military.
 

Lightguns

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Brihard said:
For interest's sake, here are the current members of the policy advisory group.

Major (Retired) Mark Campbell
Brian Forbes, National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada
Michel Houle, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Master Warrant Officer (Retired) William MacDonald
Major-General John Milne
Luc O’Bomsawin, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
Brigadier-General (Retired) Joe Sharpe
Commodore (Retired) Andrea Siew
Colonel (Retired) Brad White, Royal Canadian Legion

So Canadian Veterans Advocacy is out?  I tend to view them as hyper Liberals along with ABC Veterans.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Brihard said:
For interest's sake, here are the current members of the policy advisory group.

Major (Retired) Mark Campbell
Brian Forbes, National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada
Michel Houle, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Master Warrant Officer (Retired) William MacDonald
Major-General John Milne
Luc O’Bomsawin, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
Brigadier-General (Retired) Joe Sharpe
Commodore (Retired) Andrea Siew
Colonel (Retired) Brad White, Royal Canadian Legion

I wonder where all the Corporals, Master Seamen, and Leading Air Craftsmen are.
 

Occam

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Lightguns said:
So Canadian Veterans Advocacy is out?  I tend to view them as hyper Liberals along with ABC Veterans.

Your view would be inaccurate.  There are just as many people following CVA who are upset with the current government reneging on the re-establishment of the disability pension as there were upset with the previous government for not doing anything about it.  CVA doesn't care what colour of party is in power, only that they restore us to "one veteran, one standard".

Mike Blais (CVA) was indeed removed from the Policy Advisory Group, at the request of the other members.

Blais said he was to told Monday that other members of the committee, which include both active and retired military members, as well as representatives of groups like the National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada, Veterans UN-NATO Canada, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones and the Royal Canadian Legion, felt uncomfortable speaking while he was being so public about the discussions. Blais was not invited to the most recent meeting, which took place on Wednesday, two days after he found out he was being removed.

“I believe every policy advisory group should be full transparency and that every veteran we represent should be fully aware of what’s transpiring at these levels,” he said.

A formal letter received by Blais Friday, signed by the deputy minister, reiterated concerns that other committee members were upset by his Facebook activity and confirms his termination, citing the terms of reference for the committee which state members must respect the “trust and confidentiality” of deliberations and refrain from sharing “privileged/protected information or information of a personal nature.”

There are some shenanigans going on with this Policy Advisory Group.  The lone member of the group advocating for the re-establishment of the lifetime disability pension, removed...because he shared this with the CVA Facebook group:

“We discussed the lump sum award today, once again, there was consensus that the award was sufficient <...> We are the only dissenting position,” it reads in part. “As the ONLY stakeholder at the table, then and now, that fought for equality on this issue, I can tell you there will never be consensus support at the Policy Advisory Group, they do not not support the equality principles the CVA and/or, I suspect, want to use this opportunity to create THEIR version of the life time pension, not one that was promised, not one that we have fought so hard for these past five years without wavering.”

Interesting.  Apparently revealing that the lot of them save for one is against re-establishment of the disability pension is "privileged/protected information".  I wonder if the rank and file of these organizations realize what their representatives are actually advocating for.

recceguy said:
I wonder where all the Corporals, Master Seamen, and Leading Air Craftsmen are.

That is a damned fine question.

 

dimsum

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recceguy said:
I wonder where all the Corporals, Master Seamen, and Leading Air Craftsmen are.

I suspect anyone who was an LAC in the RCAF has long since retired.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I spoke with Mike Blaise while we were sharing drinks in Ottawa. Hehr made a big deal about being open and transparent. Mike took him at his word. When asked what was going on, he told those that were asking exactly the truth about what was being discussed and the direction the policy board was taking us.

Apparently, members of the committee got upset that Mike was talking outside of class and telling us who was really supporting us and, more importantly, who wasn't backing us. The official story is the remaining committee members went to Hehr and said they didn't want to be taking heat because Mike was being open and transparent. Just like Hehr said they were.(but obviously aren't).
 

Fishbone Jones

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Dimsum said:
I suspect anyone who was an LAC in the RCAF has long since retired.

Obviously. I'm also pretty darn sure there's more than a few out there collecting VAC pensions. So why would they not deserve a seat at the table. Not sure what your point was.

It doesn't change the fact that a corporal living on disability has no input, but the guys with big honking pensions, high paying consulting jobs, tons of connections, etc get to decide, as it ever was, what the corporal will get and he'll damn well like it.

I think it's criminal, but not unexpected
 

Occam

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Yup.  Full disclosure:  I've been an admin on the CVA FB group for a couple of years, and have been active with them for five years.  Mike's story hasn't changed one bit - re-establish the Disability Pension.  That's it.

After Mike told us about his phone call with Natynczyk where he was informed of his removal, I had an ATI request filed within 15 minutes with VAC.  Subject: requesting release of all documentation regarding Mike's removal from the Policy Advisory Group, including the letter sent from the other members of the Group to the Deputy Minister requesting Blais' removal.  I'm anxious to find out how much of it is redacted because it's "privileged/protected".  >:D

Have a gander at the Records of Discussion of the group.  Have you ever seen anything so devoid of details with regard to the re-establishment of the Disability Pension, not to mention the other topics?

recceguy said:
It doesn't change the fact that a corporal living on disability has no input, but the guys with big honking pensions, high paying consulting jobs, tons of connections, etc get to decide, as it ever was, what the corporal will get and he'll damn well like it.

Or worse, a corporal living on a lump sum and trying to jump through the ELB, CIA, and all the other hoops just to try to make ends meet.
 

The Bread Guy

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Yeah, that's what's needed - more patience ...
Canada’s veterans affairs minister is urging patience from injured ex-soldiers growing frustrated waiting for a government plan that would give them pensions for life.

The Liberal government promised in the budget it would announce plans by the end of this year for the option of life-long pensions for those injured in uniform.

The Liberals were the only party to promise to re-introduce the pensions, which were replaced by a lump-sum payment, career training and targeted income-replacement programs in 2006.

“We’re committed to a pension-for-life option for our veterans,” Kent Hehr, minister of veterans affairs and associate minister of national defence, said in an interview with the Canadian Press Monday. “They’ve asked for this. We’ve committed to this.”

Hehr declined to discuss what progress has been made so far but said he understands why many injured Canadian Armed Forces members are frustrated by the delay.

“They really deserve our support,” Hehr said. “When they leave the military as the result of illness or injury, that is tremendously hard and they’ve had to take off that jersey for the last time ...
:waiting:
 

Lightguns

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Occam said:
Your view would be inaccurate.  There are just as many people following CVA who are upset with the current government reneging on the re-establishment of the disability pension as there were upset with the previous government for not doing anything about it.  CVA doesn't care what colour of party is in power, only that they restore us to "one veteran, one standard".

Mike Blais (CVA) was indeed removed from the Policy Advisory Group, at the request of the other members.

There are some shenanigans going on with this Policy Advisory Group.  The lone member of the group advocating for the re-establishment of the lifetime disability pension, removed...because he shared this with the CVA Facebook group:

Interesting.  Apparently revealing that the lot of them save for one is against re-establishment of the disability pension is "privileged/protected information".  I wonder if the rank and file of these organizations realize what their representatives are actually advocating for.

That is a damned fine question.

I wonder if the Legion can survive another veterans back stabbing media storm? 
 

RADOPSIGOPACCISOP

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Lightguns said:
I wonder if the Legion can survive another veterans back stabbing media storm?

Sooner people stop pretending the legion is at all relevant to anyone under the age of 70 the sooner that relic can die and we can focus on establishing organization run by actual military veterans/serving military. Right now that space is occupied by a civilian's social club masquerading like they advocate for us.

Now I'll wait while the 7 people with actual military time who joined the legion in the last 20 years object to what I said.
 

Wookilar

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I just had a quite lengthy conversation last week about this issue. The discussion began with my concerns about how the current government is deciding to deal with certain lawsuits (wrt to which ones to settle and which ones to fight) and developed into many things VAC & 3B release.

I understand that any settlement with us regarding a pension of any kind is going to cost into the billions of $$ going forward but a settlement of a few million $$ is much easier to swallow. Hell, I've spent nearly that much on gravel in a 4 year period (do you have any idea how much gravel a swamp in Gagetown can swallow??  ;D).

I was guaranteed that the delay is due solely to the complications based in the language of the various pieces of legislation that are intertwined together. It was also admitted to me that the money issue is a reality that must be dealt with somehow.

Note that I was not told that a "pension for life" was going to be the same as those done under the old Pension Act. However, I don't think it is wrong to state that it's not as simple as simply bringing back a medical pension based on % of injury as determined by VAC.

With ELB being raised to 90%, how does that impact any future pension? Let alone the other aspects of the NVC that provide a suite of benefits that never existed before? All of those services have a dollar amount that is part of the "compensation" package. When does VAC Voc Rehab end? When a job is found? When my income reaches 66 1/2% of my pre-release income? Which is still on the books by the way.

Lots of questions, not many answers. I don't know what anything is going to look like when they finally bring it forward, but I certainly do share the concerns about the advisory boards that there was too much emphasis on policy development experience and not enough on "real-life" experience in dealing with these very complex admin issues.
 

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Details are starting to leak, and since its not quite related to Equitas I figured it needed its own topic.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-to-unveil-lifetime-pensions-next-week-but-veterans-say-amounts-too-low/article37325015/

Liberals to unveil lifetime pensions next week, but veterans say amounts too low

GLORIA GALLOWAY
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED DECEMBER 14, 2017

The federal government is preparing to offer disabled veterans who retired in the past 12 years the lifetime pensions they have demanded but the amounts being discussed are far lower than what is given to those who left the Canadian Forces before 2006.

A source says Veterans Affairs Minister Seamus O'Regan will announce next Tuesday that veterans who fall under the New Veterans Charter will be entitled to receive lifetime pensions of up to $1,200 a month. Sources say those payments will kick in in 2019.

A spokesman for Mr. O'Regan said Thursday that neither the date of the announcement nor the amount of the pensions has been decided. But the numbers, which originate with a government official, are now floating around the veterans community.

Newer veterans, including those who served in Afghanistan, have complained for years that the veterans who retired before 2006 received a superior compensation package to those who retired after the New Veterans Charter, which was approved by all parties in the House of Commons and implemented under the Conservative government, became law.

While the old Pension Act provided lifetime pensions, which now amount to more than $2,700 a month for qualified veterans, the charter was based primarily on lump-sum payments plus other benefits that vary according to the degree of disability and the toll it has taken on the veteran and his family.

The Liberals campaigned in the 2015 election on a promise to reinstate the lifetime pensions but doing so has proved to be more difficult and costly than anticipated. If the announcement takes place next week, it will have taken more than two years since the vote that brought Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to office for the pension promise to be kept.

Only with Exceptional Incapacity Allowance does the pension amount go above the old Pension Act rate, and that individual would have to be at EIA Grade 1 (highest level currently at $1447 a month). If not eligible for EIA, the new pension is $874K (same 60 year life expenctancy) vs $1.944M for the Pension Act. You'd have to add in the $360K payout, but its not indexed for inflation so its effect is quickly reduced over the years.

I for one, am super excited for my $120 a month.  ::)
 

BDTyre

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That's what I've been wondering. I'm sure others have asked but the government seems be avoiding any official statement.

Would a monthly pension be pro-rated? Maybe have a delayed effective date?

jollyjacktar said:
But what if you've already had a lump sum payout?
 

PuckChaser

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We'll have to wait for the details. I have a feeling that whatever they can do to save money will be done. Apparently Equitas already declined a $1400 a month pension as too low a few months ago.
 

Rifleman62

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They will need a platoon of Actuaries to convert a cash payout received under the new act, add the bump last year, convert to lifetime pension using Life Tables, deduct the cash received to date as a monthly payments = the start date of a new lifetime pension.

As like the Reserve Pension, they will probably use two different Life Tables: one for RegF and one for ResF. It didn't make sence for the RFPP, so VAC will probably do it.

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/pdf/services/disability-pension/Disability-Pension-Rates-2017.pdf

Under the old Act, eff 1 Jan 17, max (100% disabled) monthly Single - $2,733; Married - $3417; Married, two dependants - $4032.
 

57Chevy

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If you got a payout, then probably no pension, especially the old vets.

I'm still happy with my 276$ each month anyway.

 

Teager

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Rumour mill is fully loaded have heard multiple  things. One thing that does concern me is I've heard that the Legion has given there blessing for whatever VAC has cooked up. If any of this has any merit I don't know but if it does it feels like history would be repeating itself with VAC and the Legion giving it's support.
 
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