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USAF Woes

At least the conspiracy theory of intention is debunked.  But still good ammo for USAF for F-22s and 35s:

The Real Story Behind the F-15 Stand-Down: News Analysis
When four of the world’s premier jet fighters crash, the military pays attention. When every F-15 in the world is ordered to stay on the ground, the rumor mill gets in gear. Investigators open up in a PM exclusive
(Nov. 16)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4231807.html?series=36

Mark
Ottawa
 
Here we go again...USAF F15 fleet grounded a 3rd time.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,157619,00.html?wh=wh

F-15s Grounded for a Third Time
Northwest Florida Daily News  |  By Mladen Rudman  |  December 05, 2007
EGLIN AFB -- On average in the past month, the Air Combat Command issued an order every 9.6 days to stop F-15s from flying until specified airworthiness inspections were completed.

The most recent grounding came Tuesday. It's the third one and could end up being the lengthiest.

F-15A, B, C and D models are affected. Two-seat fighterbomber versions of the F-15 known as Strike Eagles continue to fly.

The 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base had returned to the sky only a couple of days ago before its dozens of F-15Cs and Ds were grounded again. Its maintainers were well on their way to finishing Eagle inspections as a result of the second stand-down.

Although the air-to-air combat Eagles aren't flying, fighter wing spokeswoman Capt. Brooke Brander said there's still plenty for airmen to do.

"On the flying side of the house, they're spending time on academics ... as well as flying in simulators," she said.

The simulators are networked so Eagle pilots around the country can train against each other.

Maintainers, which earlier in the week were described as doing a masterful job in getting F-15s inspected after the second standdown, have routine and periodic maintenance to perform.

The other Eglin units that operate F-15s are the 46th Test Wing and 53rd Wing.

The trio of Eagle standdowns sprouted after a Missouri Air National Guard F-15 crashed Nov. 2 during training because of a structural failure.

The ongoing investigation uncovered Monday "possible fleet-wide airworthiness problems ... related to areas beyond those previously inspected," according to the Air Combat Command. Upper longerons, which help connect the cockpit to the rest of the aircraft, were among the F-15 parts checked previously.

Air Combat Command spokeswoman Maj. Kristi Beckman added that the order will last until the crash investigation is completed and inspections and remedial repairs are made.

It's unclear how long that would take.

The grounded F-15s could be mobilized if there's a national emergency.

Beckman noted that Operation Noble Eagle patrols, which protect American airspace, are being handled by F-16s, Navy aircraft and the Canadian air force.
 
More:

Air Force grounds F-15s again after cracks found
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Dec/10/ln/hawaii712100337.html/?print=on

TOKYO — Cracks were found in two F-15s deployed in Japan during an investigation that followed the crash of the fighter jet in the United States last month, the U.S. military said Thursday.

The cracks were in the upper longerons — parts near the canopy — on two of the aircraft, which were among 30 inspected F-15s deployed at the Kadena Air Base on Japan's southern island of Okinawa, the Air Force said.

The Air Force issued a third flight suspension order for the fighters worldwide since an F-15C crashed in Missouri last month, injuring its pilot.

Metallurgical analysis of the crashed Missouri aircraft drew attention to the upper longerons near the canopy.

The Hawai'i Air National Guard has 18 of the twin-tail fighters, which serve in a homeland defense role for the state. The aircraft also are available for worldwide taskings.

In the interim, Hawai'i had been covered by F-16 Fighting Falcons from the Minnesota Air National Guard.

Hawai'i has A, B, and C models that are on average 25 years old, officials said.

The Air Force said the longerons, which are major structural components that run the length of the aircraft on its side, appeared to have cracked and failed.

Suspect aircraft also were identified in Oregon and Florida.

Hawai'i National Guard spokesman Capt. Jeff Hickman said all three inspections have been completed on the Hawai'i aircraft, with no structural issues found.

"They're complying with everything," Hickman said. "We're just pretty much waiting to find out if they get any more details from that Missouri crash."

The Air Force said the F-15s will not return to operation until analysis, as well as necessary inspections and repairs are completed.

Japan's Air Self-Defense Force said its inspection of all its roughly 200 F-15 jets since the crash has found no problems.

More than 700 F-15s are in its worldwide inventory, according the Air Force. F-15s fly from bases in the U.S., England, Japan and the Middle East...
 
Dec. 23--more work for CF-18s in Alaska? (usual copyright disclaimer):

Major flaws may ground older F-15s
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004088519_jet23.html

WASHINGTON — Air Force inspectors have discovered major structural flaws in eight older-model F-15 fighters, sparking a new round of examinations that could ground all of the older Boeing-made jets into January or beyond, senior Air Force and defense officials said.

The Air Force's 442 F-15A through F-15D planes, the mainstay of the nation's air-to-air combat force for 30 years, have been grounded since November, soon after one broke into large chunks and crashed in rural Missouri.

Since then, Air Force officials have found cracks in the main support beams behind the cockpits of eight other F-15s and fear similar problems could exist in others.

Current and former Air Force officials said the grounding is the longest that U.S. fighter jets have been kept out of the air and that even if the jets are cleared, it could take six months to get the pilots and aircraft back to their normal status.

The F-15A-Ds — on average 25 years old — are responsible for defending the United States, including flying combat air-patrol missions over Washington, a job now filled by F-16s.

The disclosure of the cracks comes amid intense Air Force lobbying for the purchase of additional new fighter jets.

The Air Force wants to replace its aging F-15s with 200 more F-22 Raptors beyond the 183 approved by Congress and the Defense Department.

The F-22s, which cost $132 million each, are manufactured by Lockheed Martin.

The fighter jets' grounding does not involve the fleet of 224 F-15Es, which support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Maybe our Hornets won't be needed in Alaska:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/12/27/grounding_of_f_15s_strains_us_defense/

FRESNO, Calif. - The grounding of hundreds of F-15s because of dangerous structural defects is straining the nation's air defense network, forcing some states to rely on their neighbors' fighter jets for protection and Alaska to depend on the Canadian military.

The F-15 is the sole fighter at many of the 16 or so "alert" sites around the country, where planes and pilots stand ready to take off at a moment's notice to intercept hijacked airliners, Cessnas that wander into protected airspace, and other threats...

For three weeks last month, Canadian CF-18s filled in for the F-15s over Alaska. Several times, the Canadian fighters scrambled to "do an identification" of Russian bombers flying exercises outside US airspace near Alaska, said Major Mike Lagace, a Canadian military spokesman for NORAD.

"We flew up, met with the long-range patrol, basically let them know, 'Hi, folks, we're here too,' " Lagace said.

Russian warplanes have been flying exercises near Alaska and Canada with increasing frequency in recent months.

Now, a brand-new squadron of F-22s based in Alaska is standing in for the state's grounded F-15s, said Technical Sergeant Mikal R. Canfield, a spokesman at Elmendorf Air Force Base...

Wall St. Journal argues for more F-22s:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110011043

On November 2, Major Stephen Stilwell of the Missouri Air National Guard was taking his F-15 Eagle through its paces when the plane did something for which it hadn't been engineered: It cracked into pieces.

Maj. Stilwell survived the accident, but the F-15 fleet--America's signature fighter for 30 years--may not. This isn't just some maintenance issue, but goes directly to the question of whether the United States intends to deploy the world's best Air Force or one that (fingers crossed) is good enough.

The Air Force has since discovered significant stress fractures in at least eight other aircraft, and ordered that 442 of the older-model F-15s be grounded through at least January (though 224 of the newer-model F-15Es continue to fly). Those 442 Eagles, or about a fifth of the total number of fighters fielded by the Air Force, are mainly responsible for homeland defense. They're the ones that would have to be scrambled to intercept hijacked jetliners in the event of another 9/11.

In an alternative universe, the F-15 problem would not be significant, because the Air Force would already be flying large numbers of its designated replacement, the F-22 Raptor. But the Raptor--a fifth-generation fighter that outclasses everything else in the sky--was deemed too costly and too much of a "relic" of the Cold War. The Air Force currently has orders for no more than 183 of the planes (with some Raptor squadrons already fully operational), though there is now talk of keeping the production line open for as many as 200 more. We think it's an investment worth making.

Before the F-15's problems became so glaring, it was plausible to argue that the plane was adequate to meet current defense needs until the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter--still in its testing phase--comes into service sometime in the next decade. But while the Air Force will surely engineer whatever patch the grounded Eagles need to make them airworthy again, it cannot patch the fact that it may be six months or longer before the fleet is back to full operational readiness. This is hardly trivial for a force already strained by wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and threats that stretch from the Korean Peninsula to the Horn of Africa.

Nor is there any getting over the fact that the F-15 first flew in 1972--long before many of the current crop of pilots were born--and that the plane is now outclassed by its competitors in the export market. In 2005, a British Eurofighter reportedly defeated two F-15Es in a mock dogfight. Simulated dogfights have also shown that the F-15s are somewhat inferior to Russia's more modern Su-35s [emphasis added--???].

Some defense experts claim the era of air-to-air combat is over, but similar erroneous forecasts have been made before. It's also far from clear that the single-engine F-35 can be considered a genuine replacement for the twin-engine F-15 or an adequate substitute for the (also twin-engine) F-22. The F-35 is something of a hybrid plane, with at least one version of it having a Harrier jet's vertical take-off and landing capabilities, and is also destined for shipborne service. Its great virtue is that it's a cheaper plane, but its performance is in many ways compromised by the various roles it's meant to play. As a fighter, it cannot compete with the Raptor...

The issue, then, is whether the U.S needs the best plane in the sky. For all the talk of the F-22 being a legacy of the Cold War, we are far from convinced that the U.S. will forevermore be faced with only Taliban-like adversaries incapable of fielding air forces of their own, or that the era of great power military rivalries is over. Judging by the expensive weapons systems currently being developed in China and Russia (which on Tuesday successfully tested a new ICBM, apparently Vladimir Putin's idea of the Christmas spirit), it seems that neither country has reached that conclusion either.

We cannot predict what kind of adversaries the U.S. will face in the coming decades, but we do know that part of the responsibility of being the world's "sole remaining superpower" is to be prepared for as many contingencies as possible. One prudent way of reducing the threat is to discourage potential adversaries from trying to match America's advantages in numbers and technology. Replacing our faltering Eagles with additional Raptors may be expensive, but allowing our neglect to be exploited by those who wish us harm would be ruinous.

Story on F-15Cs vs. Indian Air Force planes here:
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/06-18-04.asp

Eurofighter and F-15Es here:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=2636433

Mark
Ottawa
 
Air Force Fighter Fleet in 'Crisis'
AP, Jan. 10
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/10/AR2008011001691.html

Years of stress on the Air Force's aging jet fighter fleet have led to serious structural problems that could grow worse even after expensive repairs are made, senior service officials said Thursday.

Gen. John Corley, the top officer at Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base, Va., called the situation a "crisis" that would be best solved by an infusion of costly new aircraft rather than fixing jets that are 25 years old.

The mechanical troubles, most acute in the F-15 Eagles used to protect the United States, also have led to a patchwork approach to filling critical air missions at home and in Iraq and Afghanistan.

With nearly a third of the F-15 fleet grounded due to a defective support beam in the aircraft's frame, other fighter aircraft, including F-16s and new F-22s, are being shifted from duty in Iraq and Afghanistan [emphasis added--surely no F-22s in Iraq or Afstan?  And I'm pretty sure USAF F-15Es have replaced F-16s in Afstan].

"It's a rob Peter to pay Paul," Corley said at a Pentagon news conference. "It's unprecedented to have an air superiority fleet that's on average 25 years old."

The Air Force's dilemma has been largely overshadowed by the equally urgent demands from the Army and Marine Corps for new equipment to replace the battle gear worn down by more than six years of war. That changed on Nov. 2 when an F-15C aircraft broke in two during a training flight over Missouri...

An investigation of the crash released Thursday concluded that a defective aluminum beam in the frame cracked [empasis added], causing the $42 million jet to disintegrate in the air. There was no pilot error.

More troubling, however, were the findings of a parallel examination that determined as many as 163 of the workhorse F-15s also have the flawed beams, called longerons [emphasis added]. The aircraft remain grounded as the Air Force tries to determine how broad the problem is and whether fixes should be made. Another 19 of the aircraft have yet to be inspected and also remain grounded.

In the report on Stilwell's crash, Col. William Wignall, the lead investigator, said that prior to Stilwell's flight, "no inspection requirements existed for detecting a crack in the longeron." ..

The faulty longerons "failed to meet blueprint specifications," according to the Air Force. No decision has been reached as to whether Boeing might be liable for the repairs [emphasis added], however...

Nearly 260 of the A through D model F-15s, first fielded in the mid-1970s, were returned to flight status Tuesday [emphasis added] following fleet-wide inspections.

The Air Force's fleet of 224 newer F-15E Strike Eagles do not have defective longerons. Those jets, whose role is more oriented toward ground attack missions, were temporarily grounded after Stilwell's crash, but returned to service shortly thereafter...

The F-16, fielded in the late 1970s, is undergoing an extensive modernization program, Corley said. So, too, is the tank-killing A-10, a 30-year old plane used to support troops on the ground.

"This is systemic," Corley said.

The Air Force has fielded more than 90 F-22 Raptors, a stealth fighter made by defense contractor Lockheed Martin Corp. But these aircraft cost $160 million apiece and the Pentagon has decided to buy only 183. The Air Force has said it needs 381 F-22s and has support on Capitol Hill for a larger acquisition that would keep require tens of billions of dollars.

The F-35 Lightning is another new fighter that is being built but won't be in use for several more years...

By the way, USAF  "airpower summaries" are a useful source for air activity in Afstan--the French are dropping bombs, our Hercs get mentioned sometimes:
http://www.af.mil/news/index.asp?catid=4

Mark
Ottawa
 
A bit off the point but still interesting is the announcement that the Indians were sending six SU-30's to participate in Red Flag at Nellis, but the Russians didnt want them to use their radar. They dont want the USAF to be able to study the NO11M radar. The radar has been in service for a dozen years or more and I suspect the USAF has studied the radar - but the Russians dont want to take a chance I guess. :)
 
tomahawk6 said:
A bit off the point but still interesting is the announcement that the Indians were sending six SU-30's to participate in Red Flag at Nellis, but the Russians didnt want them to use their radar. They dont want the USAF to be able to study the NO11M radar. The radar has been in service for a dozen years or more and I suspect the USAF has studied the radar - but the Russians dont want to take a chance I guess. :)

The Indian Air Force faced the same restrictions when they participated in Exercises in the UK. Conveniently, USAF ELINT aircraft were in the UK at the same time........
 
More on the USAF's F15 woes and their causes:

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,160190,00.html?wh=news

The Real Story Behind the F-15 Stand-Down
Popular Mechanics | Joe Pappalardo | January 18, 2008
The trouble started on Nov. 2, when a Missouri Air National Guard F-15C crashed during an exercise. The incident quickly blossomed into a temporary, global shutdown of all F-15 flights, so that the planes -- including those owned by overseas customers in countries such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and Japan -- could be examined. This was the fourth crash involving an F-15 model this year. "First, only noncritical flights in the U.S. were grounded," says Guy Ben-Ari, a research fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "Then it was broadened to include all noncritical flights in combat operations. Then it was broadened to all flights. That doesn't happen very often." Equally rare is the fact that international customers of the airplane followed the United States' lead in grounding their F-15s. "Makes you wonder what information they are receiving," he says.

Related Story: Defective Beam Cited in F-15 Crash
Most media reports have emphasized the age of the aircraft, which debuted in 1975. However, newer variants -- particularly the F-15E Strike Eagle -- have also been grounded, and the last F-15 went into service in 2004. Now, comments from military officials to Popular Mechanics concerning the examination of structural parts common to all variants hint at a potentially serious problem with the airplane's structural integrity.

Inspecting America's 700 F-15s is a massive undertaking that involves thousands of maintenance crews around the world. In what is called an Immediate Action Time Compliance Technical Order, a list of detailed instructions was handed down to those maintainers whose daily duty is to keep the complex planes flying. "This is done at the base level," says Maj. Tom Crosson, spokesman for Air Combat Command. "The average wrench-turner goes through the checklist."

Operations like environmental duct reinstallation can take Air Force maintainers up to 13 hours to complete. "We have detected no cracks in our inspections so far," one tells PM.

Inspections Work

According to those involved, 13 hours worth of testing is required per airplane before it can pass inspection, with results reported back to Air Force headquarters. Each bolt to be twisted, every panel to be removed and each line to be checked is listed in detail. In the case of the F-15 investigation, Crosson says, specific attention is being paid to the hydraulic system lines, environmental control systems that regulate the cockpit, and structural frames called longerons. Longerons are metal strips that run along the length of the airplane's fuselage and transfer aerodynamic loads from the skin of the airplane to internal frame -- not a place where you want to see signs of weakness.

The longerons require four hours to examine after the jet has been prepared by removing panels to gain access, according to Lt. Col. Al Porter, deputy maintenance group commander for the 366th Fighter Wing. "The maintainers are looking for any cracks in the upper and lower longerons or any other structural deficiency, including any problems around fastener holes or the fasteners themselves," he says.

Part of the inspection uses a noninvasive surface scan that can detect cracks that may be invisible to the naked eye. Electricity is passed through a tightly wound coil, creating a current that will be interrupted by any anomalies, according to Porter. Any suspected cracks are followed up by placing dye in the suspect area and viewed with an ultraviolet light that will confirm a crack. "We have detected no cracks in our inspections so far," Porter says. "The longerons that we are inspecting now are not part of the current phase inspection work cards. It is too early to know if this will become part of future phase inspections."

When maintenance problems arise in airplanes, fingers quickly point at the operational tempo of operations: In other words, the more hours a plane flies, the more likely it is to develop problems. With a military aircraft, however, the pace is less important than where it's flying and what it's called on to do.

During combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, sand and large differences between day and nighttime temperatures can take their toll on an airplane. On the other hand, the missions are relatively easy on F-15s. "These aircraft were designed for superior maneuverability and acceleration while dogfighting," Ben-Ari says. "[In Iraq and Afghanistan] there are no enemy fighter jets or anti-aircraft missiles to outmaneuver." Instead, the planes are logging many flight hours simply loitering in circles, waiting for information on where to drop bombs to help ground forces.

New legislation will send billions of dollars toward Lockheed Martin for its F-22 fighter jets, but experts say the engineering holds up against speculation that money got in the way of the F-15 stand-down.

Debunking a Conspiracy Theory

It may seem logical to ground airplanes after a series of crashes, but there is another explanation for why the Pentagon has been keeping many of its F-15s on the ground. Skeptical analysts and defense watchers on Web boards have speculated that what's really at stake isn't safety, but future budget fights.

The 2008 defense bill passed by Congress designates $3.15 billion to purchase an additional 20 F-22 Raptor jets, a successor to the F-15, from Lockheed Martin. Over the next several years, the Air Force wants to maintain or even step up spending on both Raptors and the F-35 Lightning II (aka the Joint Strike Fighter). But some in Congress have been pushing to limit Air Force spending in order to beef up ground forces. According to the online rumor mill, the well-publicized shutdown of F-15s is meant to provide the Air Force with some leverage when the bean counters come knocking.

So is there any credence to the idea that the Air Force was eager to prove a point by shutting down their fighters? Not really. "The F-22 [consideration] was a side effect," says military analyst and author Jim Dunnigan. "An idea like that would not withstand scrutiny by engineers or historians."

Ben-Ari agrees that the "conspiracies don't hold water." He points out that the Pentagon's operational need for F-22s is well known, and would not likely change based on a stunt that crash investigators could refute. Besides, why try manipulating thousands of savvy engineers and mechanics, when Congress is such a soft target? Traditional lobbying is easier and more effective, Ben-Ari maintains. "I am hoping there is no mix of safety and politics," he says.

 
Getting nasty for USAF (usual copyright disclaimer):

Fighter dispute hits stratosphere
A Pentagon struggle over weapons policy escalates as a general is rebuked by the Defense secretary.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-airforce15feb15,0,1113261.story?track=ntothtml

In an intensifying dispute over weapons priorities, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates on Thursday privately rebuked a four-star general for suggesting the Air Force intended to buy twice as many sophisticated F-22 Raptor aircraft as the Bush administration had approved, according to Air Force officials.

One senior defense official called the remarks by Gen. Bruce Carlson, who heads the Air Force command responsible for testing and developing new weapons, "borderline insubordination," because they contradicted a decision by the president.

In its 2009 budget submitted to Congress earlier this month, the White House approved multiyear plans to buy 183 of the stealthy new fighters at an estimated $140 million apiece. Many Air Force officials, however, continue to insist they need 381 of the F-22s to deter global threats.

The rebuke by Gates on Thursday, in a telephone call to Carlson's superior, reflects a deepening debate within the Defense Department over the direction of the military in the post-Iraq era. In particular, the clash over the F-22 -- the Air Force's premier fighter plane -- has become a microcosm of the argument over what kind of wars the United States is likely to encounter in the future.

With defense spending expected to decline as U.S. troops withdraw from Iraq, some in the Pentagon have argued for shifting money to high-end weapons systems, like fighters and Navy ships, that can be used if needed against rivals with larger militaries, like China and Russia.

Gates prefers a focus on equipment and personnel needed to wage low-grade counterinsurgencies, like Iraq, arguing that such fights are more likely to occur in the near future.

"The reality is we are fighting two wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the F-22 has not performed a single mission in either theater," Gates told a Senate committee last week [emphasis added].

Carlson, however, told a group of reporters earlier in the week that the Air Force was "committed to funding 380" of the fighters, regardless of the Bush administration's decision.

According to an Air Force official briefed on the Thursday rebuke, Gates telephoned Air Force Secretary Michael W. Wynne, who was on vacation at the time, to express his displeasure with Carlson...

Mark
Ottawa
 
Scrambling:

Air Force says there's no fighter rift
The service's top two officials disown comments made by a general this week implying a dispute over F-22 procurement.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-airforce16feb16,1,5868652.story?ctrack=6&cset=true

The top two officials of the Air Force on Friday disowned comments made earlier this week by a four-star general who implied the service was at odds with the Bush administration over purchases of sophisticated new F-22 fighters.

Gen. T. Michael Moseley, the Air Force chief of staff, and Michael W. Wynne, the Air Force secretary and top civilian official, said the general's remarks "misrepresent the position of the U.S. Air Force" and insisted they support F-22 procurement plans outlined by the White House.

"The Air Force wholeheartedly supports the president's budget request for the F-22 program," the two officials said in a statement. "We owe it to our nation and to our allies to have an Air Force ready to meet a range of threats now and into the future. The Air Force and the DoD share the same desired end state."

The statement came a day after Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates privately rebuked Gen. Bruce Carlson, head of the Air Force command responsible for testing and developing new weapons, in a phone call to Wynne...

The difference over how many F-22s the Air Force should buy reflects a larger dispute within the Pentagon over weapons procurement and the future of the U.S. military. Many Air Force officials disagree with the administration's position and favor buying additional F-22s.

The Air Force has not disputed Carlson's reported comments. But a transcript of the interview provided by the Air Force shows that Carlson may not have been as confrontational as depicted in the original published report.

The transcript indicates Carlson voiced support for buying the additional F-22s, but only "if DoD and the Congress will allow us to do it."

Mark
Ottawa
 
Yet more woes for the USAF F15 fighter community: 2 Eagles collide in mid-air, but the pilots were rescued, at least.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/20/jetcrash/index.html

Two Air Force fighter pilots have been rescued after their F-15C jets collided during a training exercise over the Gulf of Mexico Wednesday, according to Air Force officials.


Two F-15C fighter jets, like the one pictured, collided over the Gulf of Mexico, the Air Force says.

Both pilots are alive, but Eglin Air Force Base spokeswoman Lois Walsh said she was unable to comment about their conditions.

The planes were from the 33rd Fighter Wing, a combat-flying unit out of Eglin Air Force Base, near Pensacola, Florida.

The crash happened about 3 p.m. about 50 miles south of Tyndall Air Force Base in Panama City, Florida.

U.S. Coast Guard Petty Officer James Harless said helicopters, airplanes and ships were deployed from Florida, Alabama and Louisiana to help with the search.

Air Force search and rescue and U.S. Coast Guard crews raced to the scene of the collision to pick up the two fliers, who had been on a routine training mission.

In January, a top Air Force general said a manufacturing defect blamed for causing a midair breakup of an F-15 Eagle fighter, which occurred in November, might lead the Air Force to permanently ground a quarter of those warplanes.

There is no information that points to a manufacturing defect as the cause of Wednesday's incident
 
CougarDaddy said:
but the pilots are rescued.

I don't know how much the planes cost, but at least the pilots are OK.

Just curious, are the planes insurable when they are in training ?
I presume not when in combat zone...
 
Yrys.... I do not think the pilots have collision insurance on "their" planes.

And governments do not insure thru insurance companies.  It called "self assumed insurance".... IE - the plane has been bought & paid for.... bye, bye
 
Sad update to this story.

Article Link

CNN) -- An Air Force fighter pilot died Wednesday after two F-15C jets collided during a training exercise over the Gulf of Mexico, according to Air Force officials.

The planes were from the 33rd Fighter Wing, a combat-flying unit out of Eglin Air Force Base, near Pensacola, Florida.

A spokesman for the wing said the pilot died after having been rescued by a fishing boat and transported to the hospital at the base. The pilot of the other jet was also rescued and was listed in good condition, he said.

The crash happened at about 3 p.m. ET, about 50 miles south of Tyndall Air Force Base which is in Panama City, Florida. A statement from the 33rd said the pilots were rescued at about 6 p.m. ET.

"The 33rd FW Nomads and Team Eglin have suffered a great loss today and my heart goes out to the family and friends of our former airman," said wing commander Col. Todd Harmer in a written statement.

"We will continue to do everything we can to assist our families and airmen at this tragic time."

Capt. Jim McPherson of the Coast Guard told CNN the crew of a Coast Guard aircraft on a training mission spotted a parachute dropping into the Gulf Wednesday afternoon.

The crew used radar and an automated identification system to detect a fishing boat in the area and directed that boat to the area where the parachute landed.

The Air Force was not identifying the pilots late Wednesday pending notification of their families. Harmer said both were "assigned to the wing for quite some time."

He said the Air Force will convene a board of officers to investigate the crash and determine its cause.
 
Dang!

Rest in Peace
Hope the other pilot recovers and gets back into the saddle quickly

My condolences to the Family, friends and comrades of the fallen.

We will remember them!

CHIMO!
 
Whoa! The USAF F15 pilot who died last week was an American Muslim.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/23/me-pilot-and-patriot-is-laid-to-rest/

Some people give Muslim-Americans in the States a lot of crap for what most of them don't do; apparently the person who wrote this article wanted to salute one who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

By KURT LOFT and LAURA KINSLER,
The Tampa Tribune

Published: February 23, 2008

Updated: 12:14 am

TAMPA - A Tampa family laid their 26-year-old son to rest Friday, honoring the sacrifice he made for his country.

"Our son has died with great honor, and this is not bestowed on anyone," said Mehboob Jivanjee, whose son, Ali Jivanjee, died after a midair collision of two F-15C Eagles. "I'm proud he served his country in the best manner and the way he wanted to."

The Pentagon said U.S. Air Force 1st Lt. Jivanjee died from injuries after ejecting from his plane during a routine training exercise over the Gulf of Mexico on Wednesday. A second, unidentified pilot parachuted safely after the two $30 million jets collided.

With the help of a fishing vessel, Coast Guard crews found both men after a three-hour search. The pilots were from the 58th Fighter Squadron of the 33rd Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base, and their planes struck each other about 35 miles south of Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida's Panhandle. A safety board investigation is under way.

Following Muslim tradition, a funeral service was held Friday at Sunset Memory Gardens in Thonotosassa. Jivanjee leaves behind his wife, Sara.

"Our son sacrificed his life for the United States," Mehboob Jivanjee said. "His friends, every one of them from the commander to the sergeants - including their wives - showed me how close they were to my son."

Many showed emotion during the graveside ceremony, and expressed their pride and appreciation for the young man's dedication.

"We love America," said his father, whose family moved to Tampa from California three years ago. "I'm proud to be a father and an American. This is our land, and we love America. If I had more sons, I would give them to this country, too."

Jivanjee joined the Air Force in 2004 after graduating with a degree in electrical engineering from the University of California at Los Angeles. He was commissioned as an officer through the ROTC program.

"Since the age of 12, Ali has wanted to fly F-15 fighter jets and serve our country," said his brother, Ibrahim, "and he accomplished this goal in the most honorable ways."

At Eglin, Jivanjee began flying the 32,000-pound F-15C tactical fighter, which can reach an altitude of 65,000 feet and hit speeds up to 1,875 mph. Many of the 522 fighters have been used extensively in the Middle East. The Air Force plans to phase out the F-15C for the new Lockheed Martin F-22.

Eglin officials say the base suspended flights for the weekend, but training exercises will resume Monday.
 
USAF wants money:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0311/p03s03-usmi.htm

In the Pentagon's emerging budget wars, the military service perceived to be playing one of the smallest roles in the war on terrorism now says it's in danger of breaking and needs billions of dollars more than the other services to stay whole.

The Air Force, after years of maintaining older airplanes without buying new ones, says it must be allowed to modernize or America risks losing air dominance around the world.

Five years of war in Iraq has worn down the ground forces and focused attention on the need to rebuild the Army and Marine Corps for those kinds of counterinsurgency operations. But the Air Force's campaign to publicize its own budgetary woes – and the military's drive to stay competitive against conventional enemies, such as China, which requires air power – are forcing Pentagon planners to make tough choices.

Although the Air Force's recent decision to award a contract to an American and French partnership for its next-generation air tanker has diverted attention, the bigger challenge for the service remains: convincing an American public and a wary Congress that it needs as much as $20 billion in additional funding each year over five years.

This year, for example, the Air Force is asking for $18 billion in "unfunded requirements." That's money the service seeks for new airplanes like the stealthy F-22 Raptor, which lists for about $143 million each. These are replacing the stock of F-15 Eagles, one of which broke apart over Missouri last fall.

"We've got an extraordinarily old fleet, the oldest we've had in the Air Force," [emphasis added] says Col. Richard Forester, a deputy chief at Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base, Va...

The Air Force agreed to draw down its number of airmen in the hope that the savings would be returned to it in the form of funding for upgrades and new airplanes. But senior Air Force officials say they instead watched as the money was diverted to the Army and the Marine Corps as those two services grew larger. While they don't begrudge the increases of the other two, they say they're left trying to bandage their service as aircraft platforms age and the number of personnel decrease – at the same time that their missions worldwide have increased and fuel costs skyrocket.

It doesn't make sense, senior officials say, to fix old planes like the F-15 and not buy new ones like the F-22.

"If we focus solely on sustaining the Army and the Marine Corps, and constrain the Navy and Air Force to primarily extending the life of existing systems, we will find ourselves in a fight we can't win, and the Army and Marine Corps will lack the throw-weight to win without the Navy and Air Force at their side," [emphasis added] says one senior officer who asked not to be named due to the political nature of the debate... 

...the Air Force performs what all agree is a vital role, albeit as a "silent partner," carrying more than 600 tons of cargo each day and ferrying service members across combat zones and to and from the war theater [emphasis added]. It also performs tens of thousands of other airlift, refueling, and close-air support and precision-strike missions. Air Force officials like to point out that its aircraft have also been flying continuously over Iraq since 1990, when President Clinton began Operations Northern and Southern Watch. Officers worry that much of this gets forgotten in the current debate...

Mark
Ottawa
 
MarkOttawa said:
Wall St. Journal argues for more F-22s:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110011043

More about Maj. Stilwell : Pilot hurt in jet breakup sues Boeing


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/25/pilot.lawsuit/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
 
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