US Presidential Election 2020

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This is the left.

My anti-virus blocked an attempt by that website to load malware -

Thanks for that.

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[QV]

That’s strange, it was fine for me. 

Here is a copy paste from the main page:

We should hold accountable:
Those who elected him.
Individuals who worked for the Trump for President campaign, Republican National Committee, and affiliated PACs in 2016 or 2020.
Those who staffed his government.
Individuals who worked in any role as a political appointee in the Trump Administration.
Those who funded him.
Individuals who used their massive personal wealth and influence to bundle money for Trump.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Some interesting and insightful history on the origins of conceding.


Full article:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/11/no-modern-presidential-candidate-refused-to-concede-heres-why-that-matters/

As electoral officials across the nation continue to count votes to determine the winner of the 2020 presidential election, President Donald Trump has given every indication that he won’t accept the result as fair if Democratic challenger Joe Biden is declared the president-elect. Trump also has refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.

Both moves would be historical firsts. U.S. history has seen a handful of bitterly contested elections, most recently in 2000, when Democrat Al Gore called Republican George W. Bush to concede in the early hours after election night—only to call back back and retract his concession when the race unexpectedly tightened up. While their first conversation was congenial, the second was tense, with Gore famously telling Bush, “You don’t have to get snippy about this.”

No presidential candidate has ever refused to concede defeat once all the votes were counted and legal challenges resolved.

For the country’s first hundred years or so, conceding a race wasn’t part of the process at all. Here’s how the loser’s concession went from nonexistent to an essential custom that all candidates have observed—albeit some less graciously than others.

How concessions became an election tradition

The peaceful transfer of power has been a norm since 1800, when the country’s second president John Adams became the first to lose his reelection bid and quietly left Washington, D.C., on an early morning stagecoach to avoid attending his successor Thomas Jefferson’s inauguration.

Some early presidential candidates did send congratulatory letters to their opponents, says John R. Vile, dean of political science at Middle Tennessee State University in Murfreesboro, who has written about the history of concession speeches. But formal concessions didn’t become an election custom until 1896, when Republican William McKinley defeated Democrat William Jennings Bryan.

In his account of the campaign in a later memoir, Bryan wrote that he began to resign himself to the loss by 11 p.m. on election night—a resignation that grew in the subsequent days as states completed counting ballots. On Thursday evening, Bryan learned that his loss was certain and immediately sent a telegram to McKinley, offering his congratulations and stating: “We have submitted the issue to the American people and their will is law.”

With that, a custom was born—much to Bryan’s own bewilderment as he considered it to be simply the courteous thing to do. “This exchange of messages was much commented upon at the time, though why it should be considered extraordinary I do not know,” Bryan wrote. “We were not fighting each other, but stood as the representatives of different political ideas, between which the people were to choose.”

Ever since, losing candidates have conceded to their opponents—even sitting presidents. In 1912, for example, Republican President William Howard Taft conceded to Democrat Woodrow Wilson at 11 p.m. on election night, while in 1932 Republican incumbent Herbert Hoover telegraphed his congratulations to Democrat Franklin Delano Roosevelt the day after the New York governor unseated him, and Hoover promised to dedicate himself “to every possible helpful effort.” (In the wake of the election, however, Hoover became a vocal critic of FDR’s policies.)

In 1960, Republican Vice President Nixon sealed his own loss to Democrat John F. Kennedy when, in his role as president of the Senate, he counted and confirmed the electoral votes. Even though Hawaii had sent two sets of votes after its results had been briefly contested, Nixon asked for, and received, unanimous consent to count the state for his opponent since they would not have changed the results of the election. “I don’t think we could have a more eloquent example of the stability of our constitutional system and the proud tradition of the American people of developing, respecting, and honoring institutions,” even when one loses, Vile says.

Sore losers

But losing candidates they haven’t always been gracious—or timely. In 1916, it took Republican Charles Evans Hughes two weeks to congratulate incumbent Democratic president Woodrow Wilson after a race so close it had taken two days to count the votes—which had initially been erroneously called in Hughes’ favor. (Why counting votes on Election Day has always been complicated.)

In 1944, Republican Thomas Dewey conceded his defeat to the incumbent president, FDR, on the radio the morning after Election Day—but became the only candidate since Bryan who did not call his opponent or send a telegram. As historian Scott Farris writes, Roosevelt was so irritated by the snub that he later sent Dewey a telegram that read, “I thank you for your statement, which I heard over the air a few minutes ago.”

Another Republican challenger, Barry Goldwater, also briefly held off on admitting his defeat to Democrat Lyndon Johnson until the day after the 1964 election—even though results were clear the night before and Americans had widely expected Goldwater to concede. In his note to Johnson, Goldwater promised his help in “achieving a growing and better America”—but also reminded his rival that the Republican Party would remain “the party of opposition when opposition is called for.”

Contested elections

History’s most contentious presidential races have also ended in admissions of defeat—even before concessions became a norm. In 1860, Democrat Stephen Douglas understood that the election of anti-slavery Republican Abraham Lincoln would rankle Southerners—and possibly inspire rebellion. Rather than stoke those sentiments, he embarked on a tour of southern states to call for unity. “Mr. Lincoln is the next President,” he told his supporters. “We must try to save the Union. I will go South.” Ultimately, however, 11 states seceded from the Union before Lincoln’s inauguration, setting the stage for the Civil War.

In 1876, Democrat Samuel Tilden won the popular vote but lost to Republican Rutherford B. Hayes in one of the most disputed U.S. elections of all time. Amid allegations of voter fraud, a bipartisan commission resolved the election by awarding it to Hayes in return for a promise that federal troops would leave the South, effectively ending Reconstruction, the turbulent 12-year effort following the Civil War to reintegrate into the Republic the former Confederacy and protect the rights of freed Blacks...

 

[CBH99]

Some interesting and insightful history on the origins of conceding.


Full article:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/11/no-modern-presidential-candidate-refused-to-concede-heres-why-that-matters/

If after an election, the sitting/former President refuses to leave the White House & accept the election results.... could the new President of the US not just have the Secret Service remove the former President?  What about the police service that has jurisdiction?  (I don't know if the White House has it's own mini police force, but there are police dedicated to various government buildings throughout Washington, DC)

Technically, the former President isn't President anymore.  He would now technically be a Squatter.  :rofl: :dunno:

 

[Brad Sallows]

"No presidential candidate has ever refused to concede defeat once all the votes were counted and legal challenges resolved."

So what's the worry?  Not all the votes have been counted, nor have all the legal challenges been resolved.

With all the imaginary or unsubstantiated crap about fraud flying around, I would have thought people would have enough without adding imaginary future crap.  People who deplore the rabbit holes of others and then find their own to go down sure are odd.

 

[Infanteer]

Yeah, no kidding.  The anti-Trump "oh my God what if he won't leave" screed the infotainment channels were running before the election is as sad as the "It's a fraud" stuff we're seeing now from pro-Trump folks who are, quite simply, being poor losers.  The arrogance going into election day and the disbelief coming out really does remind me of Democrats in 2016 - hubris and nemesis at work.

On another note, I found it curious that only 75 percent of the votes in California are counted, and yet nobody cares.  What that example shows is that this process of a time consuming tabulation of every vote takes time and yet is actually the normal way this works.  It'd probably be healthier for the US if results were not released until 100% of a states' votes were counted.  It would make for an interesting "Reveal" TV Hour....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have no opinion at this point, but I love the discussion. This could, potentially, take months to figure out, even though the House has to declare in mid Dec. I've  been reading real, professional political  pundits struggle over this. The amateur predictions and theories espoused here, whether founded or not, are extremely entertaining  and informative. Please, carry on.

 

[OceanBonfire]

Some interesting and insightful history on the origins of conceding.


Full article:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/11/no-modern-presidential-candidate-refused-to-concede-heres-why-that-matters/

And Trump has gone to new lengths from previous sore losers and for unprecedented classlessness:

...

The irony of seeing U.S. Donald Trump cut off by major media networks Thursday as he launched unsubstantiated claims lambasting the U.S. electoral system was not lost on many. The U.S. has long been a vocal critic of strongman tactics around the world. Now, some of those same targets are turning around the finger.

...


https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-elections-voting-fraud-and-irregularities-colombia-united-states-349092605f61c161109c1efb8d0c9e64

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawyers-parties-puzzled-donald-trumps-election-legal-strategy/story?id=74051406

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/false-misleading-statements-trump-made-post-election-remarks/story?id=74067573

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judges-evidence-trump-campaign-election-cases-tossed/story?id=74071460

https://abcnews.go.com/US/pennsylvania-republicans-leaders-dismiss-trump-fraud-claims-call/story?id=74064448

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-elections-voting-fraud-and-irregularities-larry-hogan-0b188ae31085a8ee531b475efe866e11

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-joe-biden-donald-trump-virus-outbreak-79c34b72633683af195ae945503883fe

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-funding-exclusive/exclusive-republicans-seeking-to-raise-at-least-60-million-to-fund-trump-legal-challenges-sources-idUSKBN27M2R0

 

[QV]

There are legitimate concerns with this election and the vote counting, I don’t know why, Oceanbonfire, you’d be opposed to verifying the results.  One this is for sure, you don’t see people screaming in the streets over the result this far like you did last time.

 

[mariomike]

While I’m not convinced a Biden admin is any better for Canada, at least we will be dealing with something more predictable and stable.

Compared to the current occupant of the White House, President Obama seemed well liked by Canadians. He also seemed to get along well with PM Trudeau. That would include Obama's VP Biden.

If Joe Biden is elected president, I'm not sure he will, his VP Kamala Harris lived for a time in Canada,

When she was twelve, Harris and her sister moved with their mother to Montreal, Quebec, Canada, where Shyamala had accepted a research and teaching position at the McGill University-affiliated Jewish General Hospital. Harris attended a French-speaking primary school, Notre-Dame-des-Neiges, and then Westmount High School in Westmount, Quebec, graduating in 1981.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Harris#Early_life_and_education_(1964–1990)

One this is for sure, you don’t see people screaming in the streets over the result this far like you did last time.

Sometimes the majority do not react well to living under the yoke of the minority.

 

[Remius]

There are legitimate concerns with this election and the vote counting, I don’t know why, Oceanbonfire, you’d be opposed to verifying the results.  One this is for sure, you don’t see people screaming in the streets over the result this far like you did last time.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-07/pro-donald-trump-protest-joe-biden-supporters-dance-us-election/12859936

https://news.sky.com/story/us-election-2020-officials-threatened-with-violence-as-pro-trump-protests-intensify-12125188

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-trump-protesters-some-armed-demonstrate-outside-vote-counting-centers/


Lots of stories seem to indicate otherwise.  I expect it to intensify once the results are official.

 

[dimsum]

There are legitimate concerns with this election and the vote counting, I don’t know why, Oceanbonfire, you’d be opposed to verifying the results.  One this is for sure, you don’t see people screaming in the streets over the result this far like you did last time.

He is saying "stop the count" before all votes are in.  That's not verifying results.

 

[Remius]

Compared to the current occupant of the White House, President Obama seemed well liked by Canadians. He also seemed to get along well with PM Trudeau. That would include Obama's VP Biden.

If Joe Biden is elected president, I'm not sure he will, his VP Kamala Harris lived for a time in Canada,

Sometimes the majority do not react well to living under the yoke of the minority.

Not disagreeing with you.  But his stance on pipelines and the Democrats history of aversion to trade deals  is not does not mean that everything will be all sunshine and rainbows.

But I believe it will be more stable and predictable.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Georgia Senate seats have gone to a run-off, so what happens if the re-vote winds up with the same results? If there a limit as to how many times they can repeat the process?


(Neither here nor there now, just a little chuckle
“Confused about Georgia’s two Senate races?...”
https://twitter.com/blaireerskine/status/1312766721657311236?s=21

 

[mariomike]

He is saying "stop the count" before all votes are in. 

Might be a bit late for that. Wonder if the guy winning by 4.3 million votes will get to win? 

 

[dimsum]

Might be a bit late for that. Wonder if the guy winning by 4.3 million votes will get to win? 

It's a stupid statement either way, but he tweeted that *after* Biden had overtook him.  If, for some reason, they actually did it, Trump would have still lost. 

 

[Kirkhill]

Incumbent refuses to conform and leave office? Constitutional crisis? Rules redefined? New norms established? The world continues?

I give you our very own King-Byng Affair of 1926.

 

[Good2Golf]

There are legitimate concerns with this election and the vote counting, I don’t know why, Oceanbonfire, you’d be opposed to verifying the results. 

Neither he nor others have said irregularities should not be investigated.  Do you have details of anyone here who has?

One this is for sure, you don’t see people screaming in the streets over the result this far like you did last time.

??? ...ummm...I suppose if you mean they were generally unarmed in 2016, I guess you’re right... :nod:

Increasingly normal: Guns seen outside vote-counting centers (AP News, 7Nov)

 

[Retired AF Guy]

On another note, I found it curious that only 75 percent of the votes in California are counted, and yet nobody cares.  What that example shows is that this process of a time consuming tabulation of every vote takes time and yet is actually the normal way this works.  It'd probably be healthier for the US if results were not released until 100% of a states' votes were counted.  It would make for an interesting "Reveal" TV Hour....

On election night I was watching PBS coverage and as soon as polls closed in Arkansas, they declared it for Trump before a single vote was counted because it had historically gone Republican.

Probably the same reason for California.

 

[mariomike]

Incumbent refuses to conform and leave office?

I guess they de-activate his nuclear codes? But, not before Inauguration Day. 

3,2,1... Yeah, I know. "He wouldn't dare!"