Ukrainian Improvised 40mm Mortar round

[Retired AF Guy]

Interesting video of an Ukrainian improvised 40mm mortar round. In essence the Ukrainians have taken a 60mm mortar and using a metal sleeve into which a AGS-17 round is inserted and the sleeve and and round are dropped into the mortar and the round is launched. Range approx. 2 km s.

More info here:
40MM Grenade Mortar

Of course every RSO in NATO is screaming NO!!

 

[KevinB]

So a woeful payload that is only useful when directly impacting a target, now shot indirectly and subject even more wind issues.

Color me unimpressed

 

[daftandbarmy]

Interesting video of an Ukrainian improvised 40mm mortar round. In essence the Ukrainians have taken a 60mm mortar and using a metal sleeve into which a AGS-17 round is inserted and the sleeve and and round are dropped into the mortar and the round is launched. Range approx. 2 km s.

More info here:
40MM Grenade Mortar

Of course every RSO in NATO is screaming NO!!

That's a great idea.

I wonder if you could modify the M203 launcher to do the same, somehow...

 

[KevinB]

That's a great idea.

I wonder if you could modify the M203 launcher to do the same, somehow...

Why?
Poor payload combined with the inherent inaccuracies of light weight and low velocity in a very no ballistically efficient trajectory…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Why?
Poor payload combined with the inherent inaccuracies of light weight and low velocity in a very no ballistically efficient trajectory…

Bored soldiers need something to keep them busy

 

[GK .Dundas]

Bored soldiers need something to keep them busy

That was my thought on that as well .

 

[KevinB]

Bored soldiers need something to keep them busy

Maybe they should be learning how to shoot…

 

[childs56]

Maybe they should be learning how to shoot…

Maybe they don't have the grenade launcher, but they have lots of ammo.
Harassing fire is a very effective especially when it is not accurate, but it is accurate. Keep them awake, keep them moving and keep them scared.
Use what you got to the best of your ability.
So far Ukraine seems to be employing lots of equipment and tactics that a much more superior Military thumbs their nose at. But they seem to be pretty effective overall in the their combined arms battle.
From the use of off the shelf drones dropping grenades, 105mm howitzers (obsolete) use of Tank and AAA for indirect fire, Farm tractors for tank recovery. Small drones at the Section Detachment level calling in and directing their own Artillery/ mortars /tank fire. They seem to be doing a pretty good job.

I cant wait for the battle field reviews of all the new tanks and IFVs. Soon the F16s.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Bored soldiers need something to keep them busy

How about rifle drill a little square bashing ....there really needs to be a sarcasm emoji in both light and heavy form .

 

[daftandbarmy]

How about rifle drill a little square bashing ....there really needs to be a sarcasm emoji in both light and heavy form .

You don't know the Guards Division very well.

I recall watching them practise for some 'real soldiering', doing drill on the heli pad in Northern Ireland during an operational tour.

We banned our troops from hanging around the LS as the mortar craters were a good hint of what might happen.

The Wooden Tops? Well, let's just say they're a bit... different

 

[KevinB]

Maybe they don't have the grenade launcher, but they have lots of ammo.
Harassing fire is a very effective especially when it is not accurate, but it is accurate. Keep them awake, keep them moving and keep them scared.

You managed to tell us you don’t have any experience with 40mm in that.
It’s got gnat sized payload - the round we (USA) send over is a better round than the even worse (if possible) CAF 40mm.

40mm works if you land it right where you needed it to go - that requires either an experienced gunner, or an advanced FCS with someone who can aim and pull the trigger consistently (and ideally both)
We sent over a lot of M203A1’s and some M320A1’s. There shouldn’t be a problem with launchers to grenades.



Use what you got to the best of your ability.

So far Ukraine seems to be employing lots of equipment and tactics that a much more superior Military thumbs their nose at. But they seem to be pretty effective overall in the their combined arms battle.

Well TBH we haven’t seen any real combined arms work from the UAF yet. Given Ukraine was the major ‘know how’ part of the USSR (and arguably their best soldiering portion) I don’t think anyone thought they could not do anything they put their mind to.

From the use of off the shelf drones dropping grenades, 105mm howitzers (obsolete) use of Tank and AAA for indirect fire,

The Drone work has been extremely novel, and has really made for some significant changes to TTP’s, and equipment requirements.
The 105mm isn’t obsolete, it’s just not ideal due to range constraints.

Farm tractors for tank recovery.

It’s been epic if not just for the memes.

Small drones at the Section Detachment level calling in and directing their own Artillery/ mortars /tank fire. They seem to be doing a pretty good job.

TBH none of that was new.

I cant wait for the battle field reviews of all the new tanks and IFVs. Soon the F16s.

Agreed.

 

[childs56]

You managed to tell us you don’t have any experience with 40mm in that.
It’s got gnat sized payload - the round we (USA) send over is a better round than the even worse (if possible) CAF 40mm.

I carried one for a couple of hours once, Qualified on it then that was all the budget we had for it, cleaned it then put it away.

40mm works if you land it right where you needed it to go - that requires either an experienced gunner, or an advanced FCS with someone who can aim and pull the trigger consistently (and ideally both)
We sent over a lot of M203A1’s and some M320A1’s. There shouldn’t be a problem with launchers to grenades.

Maybe they sold the launchers, or to heavy to use.

Use what you got to the best of your ability.

Well TBH we haven’t seen any real combined arms work from the UAF yet. Given Ukraine was the major ‘know how’ part of the USSR (and arguably their best soldiering portion) I don’t think anyone thought they could not do anything they put their mind to.

To give them credit they have combined IFV, tank, artillery and drone fire when needed. That's pretty good considering what they have to work with.

The Drone work has been extremely novel, and has really made for some significant changes to TTP’s, and equipment requirements.

I think their drone work has proven that the need for super military high tech drones for regular use is superseded by the fact that a mortar crew with a Best Buy drone can be pretty effective. it seems some of the Artillery crews with their own drones are calling in fire, adjusting themselves and doing it effectively. They are in a target rich environment where not much has to be deconflicted it appears. But it proves it works.

A few years ago I was in a round table discussion with our bosses over the use of drones for the FOO and also individual guns. They laughed and said not chance.

The 105mm isn’t obsolete, it’s just not ideal due to range constraints.

I will wait for the official reports from the Ukraine Army on their effectiveness. From the videos floating around and few unofficial reports they seem to like the 105 series. Fast to bring into and out of action, reliable, low silhouette and can bring a lot of fire with less of a foot print. Both physical and logistical.

It’s been epic if not just for the memes.

TBH none of that was new.


Agreed.

 

[KevinB]

I carried one for a couple of hours once, Qualified on it then that was all the budget we had for it, cleaned it then put it away.

Maybe they sold the launchers, or to heavy to use.

Perhaps. I just think it’s a terrible idea.

To give them credit they have combined IFV, tank, artillery and drone fire when needed. That's pretty good considering what they have to work with.

I’m not trying to diminish the efforts or actions of the UAF at all, they have been kicking the crap out of “The Second Best Army in the World” to the fact the RuAF is now the second best Army in Ukraine (and potentially second best Army in Russia )

I think their drone work has proven that the need for super military high tech drones for regular use is superseded by the fact that a mortar crew with a Best Buy drone can be pretty effective. it seems some of the Artillery crews with their own drones are calling in fire, adjusting themselves and doing it effectively. They are in a target rich environment where not much has to be deconflicted it appears. But it proves it works.

I wouldn’t go that far. There are some very good uses for high end ISR UAS and attack UAS that the low tech can’t do. The rate of drone expenditures in Ukraine are pretty astounding too.
But I agree with you that the idea of cheap and easy UAS has really been sweeping since the Ukrainians started using them.

A few years ago I was in a round table discussion with our bosses over the use of drones for the FOO and also individual guns. They laughed and said not chance.

UAS have been doing FOO work since 1991, sometimes the CAF likes to be a few generations behind

I will wait for the official reports from the Ukraine Army on their effectiveness. From the videos floating around and few unofficial reports they seem to like the 105 series. Fast to bring into and out of action, reliable, low silhouette and can bring a lot of fire with less of a foot print. Both physical and logistical.

The 105mm wasn’t getting significant CB, as the RuAF was busy trying to get the 155mm systems which where more dangerous to them.

The biggest Arty take away anyone should be making is the need for Rockets…
Long range precision rockets and mobile launchers.