Spencer100
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Canadian media even know we have them inventory? They are still are trying figure out a tank from a G-wagon
Ukraine - Superthread
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TacticalTea
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Such a ridiculously meager amount.
GR66
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A single troop. Pretty sad really. I was hoping for a full squadron. Something large enough that the Ukrainians could use it as a mobile reserve perhaps for when the expected Russian offensive kicks off, but penny packets it is I guess.
We talk about training the Ukrainians in combined arms warfare to give them a chance to have successful maneuver operations, but don't give them enough tanks to do anything but provide fire support for their infantry. They might be able to piece together a full squadron out of donations from other countries I guess, but then you'll have a mix of models with different capabilities and support requirements.
Canada being Canada we'll likely send a squadron to beef up our deployment to Latvia where they can sit deterring a Russian attack that can't happen while the Russians are bogged down in Ukraine while the Ukrainians continue to take a beating and don't have enough tanks to undertake successful offensive operations to liberate their country. What's the logic behind that?
Yes it is. But it’s also yet another country chipping in and contributing to better solidarity among western backers of Ukraine.
Maybe a troop of A4s will make a useful contribution for driver, gunner, loader, or maintainer courses. They’ll need to do some serious train the trainer workups. Every little bit helps.
MilEME09
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Reading the CBC article we have a lot of Maintenance issues with the fleet, it may be all that's available to fight
TacticalTea
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That makes it worst.
Like @GR66 I hoped for a squadron but 10 is what I expected. I pray to god you are right and that they actually send at least 10.
Reading about nothing more than four has felt like a gut punch. So much is on the line, yet we'd send so little?
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Right now it's a question of what and when - sequencing in to UKR is an important consideration as well. Canada has made multiple donations, and will, I suspect, do more. So "Tomorrow CAN announces X" does not mean "CAN will only ever do X".
GR66
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According to the graphics on the Battle Order website anyway a Ukrainian tank company is 13 x tanks. We should take into consideration the way they already work. Giving them 15 would allow them to field a full company plus a couple of spares.
There will be other penny packet A4 contributions from elsewhere. I suspect they’ll cobble together a company or two.
I wonder who’s gonna be teaching them to drive, shoot, load, command, and fix them?
GR66
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The problem is all of those A4s will likely have different national equipment modifications which will make them harder to work together seamlessly and harder to support. Training and logistics would be easier if each Company of tanks was of uniform configuration.
For sure. But I think Ukraine’s pretty good at innovation and adaptation. I expect any country sending tanks will also say “here’s what we did to them”, and Ukraine can make or reverse modest modifications as needed.
MilEME09
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you may see over time during repair and maint, a common standard come out as a Leopard 2U (for ukraine) IE the play with all the A4 national variants, pick the best of each and put those in all of them slowly.
MilEME09
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And UCR it all to avoid procurement taking 20 years
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It took 15 years after we got the Leo IIs to get the AEVs to support them. We still don't have a bridge layer. Fuck that. If we give them away they'll never be replaced. Ever.
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On the one hand I find myself wondering how long it will take them to produce functioning crews, then troops. Squadrons and Battle Groups?
On the other hand I keep remembering commentary from the field where the Russians found themselves impressed that the Ukrainians managed to amass an armoured fist of 10 to 15 tanks for runs in the Kharkiv area.
How many tanks can be fielded in a single group in the prevailing field conditions? When the Ukrainians ask for 300 tanks do the anticipate using them all at once in a single assault? Or will they be using them as separate Squadrons/Companies?
The time available for training is also going to have an impact, I would think, on how the tanks are going to be organised and used.
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He can’t. He’s just trying to get out in front of the plane issue that is next months topic for donation.
Scholz wants no more than stalemate in UKR, as he doesn’t want the Ukrainians to be successful in kicking Russia out of their home, as he’s concerned his buddy Vlad will go to the Nuclear option. He’s got the Polish buffer, so he likes to live with his head in the sand.
I suspect that most Western Governments feel like a slow roll is the best way forward, gradually increasing the support and level of pain Russia feels. More support is added to keep Ukraine viable, but not dominating. With the goal that eventually Russia sees their efforts are futile and goes home.
I don’t think that’s a great solution as at some point Russia is going to decide their commitments and losses require a win no matter what.
Better to provide more firepower now, and have Russians understand immediately that they are in a losing situation and need to leave.
Of course I’m also the guy that wanted to drop a NATO Corps into Ukraine mid Feb last year to stop this back then from even starting.
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It is the reality of who we are today.
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