Ukraine - Superthread

[FJAG]

What would it take to bring them up to an L52 cannon?

I'm not sure if that's possible anymore. I was researching the upgradeability of Canada's M109A4+ to A6 and was told the at he cycle would need them to go through an upgrade to A5 first and then on to A6 but that the production lines were limited to A5 to A6 and turning to only doing A6 to A7 upgrades. My source was pretty good on this but we're talking about the situation about a decade ago when they were into LRIP of the conversion.

There were roughly 689 A6s to be upgraded to A7 over a period of 5 years as of around 2019 so my guess is the production line is still tied up with that.

 

[Maxman1]

What would it take to bring them up to an L52 cannon?

The L52 modification is separate from the A6 upgrade. Mostly it involves installing the gun from the PzH 2000 and modifying the loading system.

 

[FJAG]

The L52 modification is separate from the A6 upgrade. Mostly it involves installing the gun from the PzH 2000 and modifying the loading system.

Of course it is but its a whole different and much more complex mod and the factory is tied up doing A6 upgrades.

The M109L52 mods were done about two decades ago by RDM and Rheinmetall. RDM are the folks who did our C1 to C3 conversions. They went bankrupt quite a few years ago.

If you want to get something into the hands of the Ukrainians in time to make a difference, this isn't it.

 

[Kirkhill]

Soldiering...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/105fsp2

 

[daftandbarmy]

Suicide missions and corruption... the Ukrainian Foreign Legion sends:

 

[Maxman1]

Of course it is but its a whole different and much more complex mod and the factory is tied up doing A6 upgrades.

The M109L52 mods were done about two decades ago by RDM and Rheinmetall. RDM are the folks who did our C1 to C3 conversions. They went bankrupt quite a few years ago.

If you want to get something into the hands of the Ukrainians in time to make a difference, this isn't it.

I wasn't suggesting that, just pointing out the A6 program didn't involve conversion to a L/52 gun.

 

[Maxman1]

Reading about the Rooikat and how it uses the Oto Melara 76, I wonder if it would be feasible to up-gun the M3 Bradley in the same way. Or if it would be redundant with the Griffon II coming up soon.

 

[brihard]

Reading about the Rooikat and how it uses the Oto Melara 76, I wonder if it would be feasible to up-gun the M3 Bradley in the same way. Or if it would be redundant with the Griffon II coming up soon.

Why? 25mm is a great gun, and proven against Soviet armour. Why frig with something that works well and can be used immediately?

 

[Zipperhead99]

From Washington, Berlin and Paris, a sudden influx of armor bound for Ukraine - Breaking Defense

"This is a sign the three governments are managing escalation using a ‘boil the frog’ kind of strategy by gradually increasing support to Ukraine not through grand gestures but by adding different pieces of equipment, in intervals," said analyst Ed Arnold.

breakingdefense.com

 

[GK .Dundas]

Why? 25mm is a great gun, and proven against Soviet armour. Why frig with something that works well and can be used immediately?

Actually they've are currently developing and trialing a 50 mm version of the chain gun on a Bradley.

 

[dapaterson]

The 25mm is in service, has ammo in stock, and has spares. Good enough today trumps potentially better tomorrow.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Actually they've are currently developing and trialing a 50 mm version of the chain gun on a Bradley.

Which would be awesome

Rheinmetall To Explore 50mm Cannon Integration On OMFV Lynx​

American Rheinmetall Vehicles has announced the signing of a Master Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) with U.S. Army Combat Capabilities Development Command Armaments Center (DEVCOM AC). The American branch of Rheinmetall says that the CRADA will facilitate collaboration on a “regular” basis for the development of “integrated combat vehicle weapon, fire control, and ammunition technologies” including the XM913 50mm cannon for Rheinmetall’s Lynx IFV entrant in the Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle program to replace the M2 Bradley.

Rheinmetall To Explore 50mm Cannon Integration On OMFV Lynx

American Rheinmetall Vehicles is collaborating with the U.S. Army to explore integration of the XM913 50mm cannon on the OMFV Lynx and other technologies.

www.overtdefense.com

 

[GK .Dundas]

The 25mm is in service, has ammo in stock, and has spares. Good enough today trumps potentially better tomorrow.

Oh absolutely , another point in it favor is that's we're not the only one using it.
So should we run low on either. We should be able to purchase spares and ammo from somebody else.

 

[Kirkhill]

The 25mm is in service, has ammo in stock, and has spares. Good enough today trumps potentially better tomorrow.

How easy is it to swat Mavic 3 Quadcopters out of the sky with 25mm SAPHEI-T from a LAV? Or do they work better against larger "drones"?
If the Ukrainians are claiming success with pintle mounted machine guns.....

 

[Zipperhead99]

The resurgence of the Light Anti-Aircraft Artillery. - Maxims and Vickers.

Understandable, now with so many small and cheap drones out there, it is a waste to use SAMs (even MANPADS) on cheap COTS drones.

 

[brihard]

Do we need something that’s more of a monster shotgun, to take out drones up to a couple hundred meters’ distance?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Do we need something that’s more of a monster shotgun, to take out drones up to a couple hundred meters’ distance?

 

[KevinB]

Do we need something that’s more of a monster shotgun, to take out drones up to a couple hundred meters’ distance?

Most of the 35mm and larger cannons have proximity rounds that fragment near a target to give one a much better shot at air targets than a large canister type shell would.

Canister rounds are primary anti personal rounds for tanks and DF arty - but the spread and range means they are fairly limited for Anti Air roles (plus a slew of ball bearings falling from the sky over everywhere)

 

[brihard]

Yeah… I’m just wondering what’s the lightest option reasonably possible.

 

[KevinB]

Yeah… I’m just wondering what’s the lightest option reasonably possible.

The Gepards seem to be doing stellar work.
Pity the CAF didn’t retain the dual Skyguard guns - I’m sure they could have been modified onto a variety of Medium Tactical Trucks, or LAV…

Makes one wonder if there is a potential role for a LAV-Skyguard variant using a Gepard’ish sort of turret.