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Ukraine - Superthread

The Bread Guy

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Its kind of hard to blame Turkey if you consider the way the EU has treated them. The Europeans still don't know if they are Europeans or Asiatics. And they response varies from country to country and by the governments of the day.

I like the quote I just saw recently. "If you want to have a friend, be a friend." And friendship develops through thick and thin. The Turks don't get much consideration. Can we blame them if the adopt the prevailing view that nations don't have friends, they have interests?
When you put it that way, it looks like a bit of chicken-and-egg thing: who was the first to piss the other off, and here's where we are now.

Still, wanting the F35s while also wanting RUS anti-air tech seems a bit passive aggressive as a stand-alone policy :)
 

Kirkhill

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US Intelligence Agencies wondering how to get it righter... It is easy to count tanks. Hard to count willing drivers.


I would make this observation - the one thing that everybody has got wrong is the willingness of the local community to fight the invader.

Vietnam fought the Chinese as hard as it did the Americans. Yugoslavians fought the UN and NATO (as well as each other). Israelis. Palestinians. Indians. Pakistanis. Rhodesians. Shona. Matabele. Afghans. Iraqis. The one common denominator, in my view, is that the sense of home negates any sense of time or any disparity in weaponry.

The Scotch-Irish and the Anglo-Irish still fight the Catholic Irish and each other. Wales and Scotland still fight England. The English still fight the French. Quebec still fights the Anglos. And now the outsiders even if they do speak a French.

Tanks and planes win battles. And Professionals in tanks and planes do better than Amateurs in tanks and planes. But tanks and planes, even with professionals, can't win wars. They can buy time and cool things down for a while. Maybe buy a truce, an armistice. But they can't win wars.
 

Kirkhill

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When you put it that way, it looks like a bit of chicken-and-egg thing: who was the first to piss the other off, and here's where we are now.

Still, wanting the F35s while also wanting RUS anti-air tech seems a bit passive aggressive as a stand-alone policy :)

You mean like India? ;)
 

rmc_wannabe

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It's hilarious how Putin's "Gangster Diplomacy" strategy has now turned into bravado with no substance, but yet that's the only thing written in the play book. I wonder how many Russophile nations are now feeling like they got duped into supporting Vlad the Impotent.
 

daftandbarmy

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Its kind of hard to blame Turkey if you consider the way the EU has treated them. The Europeans still don't know if they are Europeans or Asiatics. And they response varies from country to country and by the governments of the day.

I like the quote I just saw recently. "If you want to have a friend, be a friend." And friendship develops through thick and thin. The Turks don't get much consideration. Can we blame them if the adopt the prevailing view that nations don't have friends, they have interests?

Don't trot out that quote in Cyprus... the Greek Cypriots might knee you in the Famagusta ;)
 

Skysix

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US Intelligence Agencies wondering how to get it righter... It is easy to count tanks. Hard to count willing drivers.
I would make this observation - the one thing that everybody has got wrong is the willingness of the local community to fight the invader.
The biggest factor, in my opinion, is the reliance on SigInt and other tech sources, not HumInt. HumInt is harder to get and even harder to filter and analyse, but a lot
closer to reality than a low orbit photo or an industrial output spreadsheet.

The State Department's intelligence arm, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, has consistently been more accurate (boots on the ground analysis) than all the other Stateside agencies.
 

Kirkhill

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The biggest factor, in my opinion, is the reliance on SigInt and other tech sources, not HumInt. HumInt is harder to get and even harder to filter and analyse, but a lot
closer to reality than a low orbit photo or an industrial output spreadsheet.

The State Department's intelligence arm, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, has consistently been more accurate (boots on the ground analysis) than all the other Stateside agencies.

:unsure: Do you suppose Global Affairs Canada could manage that kind of Intelligence gathering?

It is a puzzlement.
 
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