Ukraine - Superthread

[childs56]

Seem to remember that this was suggested in mid 80's but reversed, Take a qual diesel mech convert them to DND stds BUT retain the origional cert. Not sure where it went tho.

I would have to wonder what DND standards are? Heavy Duty Mechanics (offroad/ Highway)may specialize in certain machine types, But engines, drive systems are similar. If you can fix one you should be able to fix them all using the manuals. (I know each have their own tricks)
For electro drive, sights electronic things you need to specialize, there are instrument techs who if you pay them they will fix it for you.

Overall the military needs to stop thinking their equipment is so intricate and hard to fix that only they can do it.
Start looking at more third party overhaulers, and get them involved. Does the Canadian Military overhaul their own engines and transmissions, or do they use a third party? What about their electro/ mechanical devices?

I know the Airforce had the capability to overhaul some of their avionics and engines/ apus. But much of the work was third party. The front line guys diagnosed and changed components. Sent the assemblies away for repair often.

 

[Kirkhill]

You're of course assuming that the government will decide to replace our tanks with new MBT's. There is always the possibility that some good idea fairy will claim that Ukraine shows that tanks are obsolete and besides China's more of a threat right now than Russia and even the USMC says tanks aren't suited for a Pacific war.

There will be a lot of competition for our Defence dollars over the next several years and I'm not 100% confident that new tanks will make the cut.

There is also an element of choice. The politicians get to choose what type of war they want the CAF to fight as well as where and when. Those choices will also impact kit requirements.

 

[suffolkowner]

You seem inordinately offended by a comment not directed at you.

A savvy statesman could leverage the same deal by pointing to Poland and other countries receiving new equipment to replace donations to Ukraine.

Again, our tanks are an absolute mess right now. Before sending four to Ukraine, we had 82 of all types, of which only 15 are combat ready. Acquiring several hundred would not be "largely the same capability", it would be significantly greater capability because we could equip all three regiments with three tank squadrons, supply the armour school and have a squadron overseas. Right now, only the Lord Strathaconas have a tank squadron. Plus it would simplify logistics because parts have to be shipped from Germany, whereas for M1 Abrams the factory is just across the border, which would also allow for tanks to be sent for factory repair, refit and upgrades.

A lot of money will need to be spent on our tanks one way or another.

While technically true, that's a misleading statement. Of the 80 (now ~70+ post ukraine donation) 40 (30) are not intended to be "combat ready", they were bought for training. Of the 40 combat tanks, 20 (I believe) are going through a planned modernization/refit. Of the other 20, 15 are what was available for deployment, because some need to be left behind for the schools, crossover training etc.


From the outside, the RCAC seems like a mess with 1 tank regiment that can generate a squadron, and two placeholder regiments that aren't equipped to thrive at anything. Does that need to be fixed? Yes. Is 3 regiments of tanks that we don't have the infrastructure for the answer? No.

It does seem like a lot to deploy 15 tanks
82 Leo2's
42-8=36 2A4's
20 2A4M's
20 2A6M's

What is the modernization/refit the 2A6M's are going for? schedule? Is there a future for the Leo2? Seems like right now there is a long wait for new/rebuilt to 2A7/2A8

I wonder if having Abrams might solve a parts problem as with the Leo2's no one seems to want to put the parts order in big enough, we shouldnt have that problem with the US

 

[daftandbarmy]

While others dither, Russia doubles its military spending:

Putin doubles military spending as Ruble plummets​

 

[KevinB]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696239544109076805

Very expensive loss

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696240423079952740

 

[McG]

You seem inordinately offended by a comment not directed at you.

Call me disappointed that we have a thread here on Ukraine where someone needed to snipe a one liner of baseless, off-topic partisan poo flinging. We have whole other segments of the site where you can go fling as much as you want. Should I assume you have similar venom of the CAF that is not asking for American tanks?

Tell you what though, let’s just get back to talking about the Russian caused war in Ukraine. You can have the win. The PM must truly be brainless for not accepting an imaginary offer for discount used tanks.

 

[suffolkowner]

ΑΠΟΚΛΕΙΣΤΙΚΟ: Ελληνικά όπλα στην Ουκρανία με πρόταση ανταλλαγής Leopard 1A5 με εκσυγχρονισμένα LEO 1A5! - Πτήση

Η πρόσφατη επίσκεψη του Ουκρανού προέδρου Βολοντιμίρ Ζελένσκι στην Ελλάδα και η υπόσχεση της συμβολής μας στην εκπαίδευση Ουκρανών πιλότων σε F-16, επανάφερε στο προσκήνιο τη φημολογία περί «κρυφής ατζέντας» για την παραχώρηση όπλων στο Κίεβο. Πέραν του δημοσιογραφικού κλισέ «κρυφή ατζέντα», το...

flight.com.gr

Greek perspective on exchanging Italian-Swiss-German Leo1's for Greek Leo1's.

 

[GR66]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696239544109076805

Very expensive loss

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696240423079952740

Of course it's only a sample size of one, but these trenches don't look as deep/well constructed as the ones we were seeing in the early stages of the counter offensive. Perhaps the suggestions that the 2nd/3rd lines of defence aren't as formidable as the 1st are accurate and we might see an increased rate of Ukrainian advances as a result.

 

[KevinB]

https://x.com/warinthefuture/status/1696457901144195418?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

 

[ueo]

You're of course assuming that the government will decide to replace our tanks with new MBT's. There is always the possibility that some good idea fairy will claim that Ukraine shows that tanks are obsolete and besides China's more of a threat right now than Russia and even the USMC says tanks aren't suited for a Pacific war.

There will be a lot of competition for our Defence dollars over the next several years and I'm not 100% confident that new tanks will make the cut.

Buncha Marines who fought the Pacific campaign might disagree with this.

 

[GR66]

Buncha Marines who fought the Pacific campaign might disagree with this.

Buncha current and recently retired Marines disagree with this, but yet that is what the USMC has done.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Buncha Marines who fought the Pacific campaign might disagree with this.

Two very different worlds. 73.6 short tons for a Abrams. 33.4 for a Sherman. Basically the tanks of WWII weighed as much as a Bradley.

Even with the lighter weight of the Sherman they still had a bunch of trouble travelling around the Pacific islands due to the nature of the land, a Abrams is going to be even worse.

For what the intended role of the Marines are, it does make sense to drop the Abrams, it is just too heavy for what they need to be able to do.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Two very different worlds. 73.6 short tons for a Abrams. 33.4 for a Sherman. Basically the tanks of WWII weighed as much as a Bradley.

Even with the lighter weight of the Sherman they still had a bunch of trouble travelling around the Pacific islands due to the nature of the land, a Abrams is going to be even worse.

For what the intended role of the Marines are, it does make sense to drop the Abrams, it is just too heavy for what they need to be able to do.

And the Army has thousands of tanks and guns and all the other heavy gear they might need.

And there's no rule of physics that says that only Marines can land heavy equipment across a beach.

 

[NavyShooter]

In fact, for the largest landing operation in history (Operation Overlord) there was not a single Marine involved.

 

[daftandbarmy]

In fact, for the largest landing operation in history (Operation Overlord) there was not a single Marine involved.

Or, shocker, all amphibious operations in the Med and most of the landings in the Pacific War...

 

[Skysix]

https://x.com/warinthefuture/status/1696457901144195418?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

“Ukrainian strikes inside Russia should relieve exaggerated fears about the consequences of crossing Putin’s supposed red lines. Providing more aid to Ukraine won’t raise the risk of a wider war — but it could shorten the conflict"

Precisely. The administration is wasting Ukrainian lives for their own reasons. And lessening US credibility and influence in the process.

 

[Kirkhill]

In fact, for the largest landing operation in history (Operation Overlord) there was not a single Marine involved.

D DAY Royal Marines

Unit/ Formation: Royal Marines Location: France Period/ Conflict: World War II Year: 1944 Date/s: 6 June 1944 D Day was the largest single commitment of Royal Marines in history, with over 17,500 RM taking part. As well as providing 2,500 Marines forming 5 out of the 8 Commando units involved in...

www.royalmarineshistory.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

D DAY Royal Marines

Unit/ Formation: Royal Marines Location: France Period/ Conflict: World War II Year: 1944 Date/s: 6 June 1944 D Day was the largest single commitment of Royal Marines in history, with over 17,500 RM taking part. As well as providing 2,500 Marines forming 5 out of the 8 Commando units involved in...

www.royalmarineshistory.com

I could be wrong but think he was referring to US Marines...

 

[Kirkhill]

I could be wrong but think he was referring to US Marines...

I'm sure he was, Marine.

 

[NavyShooter]

I was referencing US Marines...y'know...the folks who were referenced in the thread I was responding to about having given up their Abrams Tanks....

I appreciate the pedantry and accuracy though.

NS