U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[wdewitt]

Good quote. If its sanction by the suppose U.N. Council ?
Then its legal and binding war.
It is a pretty lame excuse to said you join to do humanitarian work when you train for war and to fight domestic or foreign enemy's. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Good quote. If its sanction by the suppose U.N. Council ?
Then its legal and binding war.
It is a pretty lame excuse to said you join to do humanitarian work when you train for war and to fight domestic or foreign enemy's.   

Anyone else having trouble trying to figure this one out?

 

[medaid]

I have trouble figuring out anything df15 posts... Seriously I do.

 

[FastEddy]

So FastEddie let me get this straight

Deserters should be held in the same regard as rapists and murderers.
Someone who may have serious PTSD from back to back tours who's job may have been picking up body parts for 14 months a go, who has fulfilled their contract but caught under stop loss and told their going BACK again should just STFU because they signed on the dotted line.
Your pissed off that some people in society sometime vilifies LEOs and it burns your cookies that they may have sympathy for deserters?
It pisses you off when someone video tapes a cop/cops physically arresting someone where violence is present.
Anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view is a bleeding heart?

As for the whole comrade dying because you didn't get on the plane. That can go both ways.
Example that US soldier who threw a grenade into his headquarters group killing some of them.
Or even hypothetically speaking if someone just DOES NOT want to be in the fight and has done everything they can to get OUT of the fight but go anyways, ends up freezing up during a firefight, runs away from their post, commits suicide etc.. Is it safe to say by that logic that forcing one of these deserter wanna-be's to deploy  actually caused allied soldiers to die?

I'm trying to follow you're point of view but it really seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about how LEOs are treated and I'm not making the connection here.

Yes ! I am pissed off, but only at those who constantly confuse an example with my personal concern or as you put it "a chip on my shoulder", I can assure you that is the least of my concerns.

As for Bleeding Hearts, it refers to a group of persons who appear to overly sympathize and have unreasonable concerns for transgressors of society . Or those who try and make a case on their behalf, in this case Deserters. Disagreement does not equal Bleeding Heart.

As for my Grouping or Comparison of Deserters, which you think unfair or inappropriate. Please enlighten us where you would place them on a list of our vile and undesirable members of society.

If for what ever reason a member of the Armed Forces felt that his/her deployment or presence to a action would endanger or jeopardize that action, should and could inform the PTB. What ever the results might be, Discharge or Imprisonmet or reassignment. Desertion is not the answer.

I must apologize to the MOD's for occasionally wandering from time to time from the Topic. However on occasion it is necessary to explane or defend previous statements.

Cheers.

 

[wdewitt]

Volunteer army you join up at your own free will.
I believe if you can't full fill your contract then request discharge or be assign to another job till you are discharge.
No soldier wanted an wild card that can't back up his team out in the field that endanger the hole group
safety and compromise there objective. :-[
Forcing a person to fight in a combat role does not work or having them endanger there fellow members.
During the Second World War the Liberal government force draft dodgers to go to Europe mainly because lack of  troop manpower.
Nobody wanted them there on there front lines because they were consider not trust worthy and they were force there by the government.
A free volunteer  army fight more better than an force enlistment .

 

[geo]

DF15... what,s your point ???

where are you going with this ???

The americans who are hiding here voluntarily enlisted in their military.
If they refuse their deployment, they WILL face disciplinary measures leading up to their final discharge from their service.

Why are they hiding up here - let them go home, have their day in court & pay the price for ALL their decisions.
They decided to enlist
They decided to refuse deployment

 

[Greymatters]

Volunteer army you join up at your own free will.
I believe if you can't full fill your contract then request discharge or be assign to another job till you are discharge.
No soldier wanted an wild card that can't back up his team out in the field that endanger the hole group
safety and compromise there objective. :-[
Forcing a person to fight in a combat role does not work or having them endanger there fellow members.
During the Second World War the Liberal government force draft dodgers to go to Europe mainly because lack of  troop manpower.
Nobody wanted them there on there front lines because they were consider not trust worthy and they were force there by the government.
A free volunteer  army fight more better than an force enlistment .

How about dealing with current issues and reality instead of WW2? 

Adults who sign up arent stupid, they know that the job of a soldier/soldier/airman is to fight.  Its something everyone learns from TV and movies long before they join up.  They know thats its possible they could go to war.  Its not like they join up and go 'oh my god, we have to shoot guns and might kill people? Nobody told me that!".  :

And it is not a 'volunteeer' army - it is a 'contract' army that each person willingly enters for a set period of service.  Failing to abide by the terms of a contract always results in some sort of punishment, regardless of whether it is a service contract, bank loan, line of credit, or employment contract.

 

[wdewitt]

My point  is they sign on the dot line to commit to defend and carry out there duty's.
As far as I care they should just boot them out of there outfits and make them paid back money wasted on training them. When you violate your contract there is a penalty to be paid.
Some would go to jail ;others would be boot out. :crybaby:
Society expect certain requirement that go with contract.
In some country not so free they would jail them or have them shot for cowardice.
USA Forces like our have set protocol's in the military act that enforce there discipline.
Instead of running up here they should have the military code amend to reflect society displeasure.

 

[larry Strong]

Excellent news, buy the Judge a round. Reproduced in accordance with the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080714/robin_long_080714/20080714?hub=Canada

Army deserter's bid to avoid deportation rejected
Updated Mon. Jul. 14 2008 7:30 PM ET

The Canadian Press

VANCOUVER -- American army deserter Robin Long could be deported to his country as early as Tuesday after a Federal Court judge rejected his application for a stay of his deportation order.

The 25-year-old fled to Canada in 2005 to avoid serving in Iraq.

Long was arrested in Nelson, B.C. last October on a Canada-wide warrant.

He said he sought refuge in Canada because the U.S. army wanted him to participate in what he calls an illegal war of aggression in Iraq.

In her ruling, Federal Court of Canada Justice Anne Mactavish says Long did not provide clear and convincing evidence that he will suffer irreparable harm if he is returned home.

Outside the court, one of his supporters said he is unaware of any other recourse for Long and that he will likely be deported on Tuesday.

One down...more to go

 

[KJK]

Good!

KJK

 

[fire_guy686]

Job well done to the judge for having the spine to make this decision. I'm sure she will be hated now by all those crying to let these guys stick around.

 

[wdewitt]

I am sure the local legion members would help this poor down treat individual a free ride to the border. They would give him a happy good bye farewell party as he is cuffed and shackled.
He not far from the border at Trail BC. The local RCMP detachment could spare him a room for the night and hand him over to the USA authority's that is a 10minute run if that. :crybaby: :boring: ;D
I know they would be just overwhelmed and heart broken if they were turn down to express there feelings towards him. ;D It just such a nice view there crossing the border with the mountains and river there.
An it a free meal and bed for the night at taxpayers expense.

 

[2 Cdo]

I like the fact that the judge in this case pointed out that Long was not facing any harsh treatment if returned. In the majority of these cases in the US the offender was dealt with administratively and given a less than honourable discharge.(Which is ironic given the fact that these losers have no honour)

Good riddance, good bye and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of our country!

 

[CountDC]

I would like to see the U.S. charge everyone of them as we return them and for Canada to have a policy that bans them from returning here once deported. Forget the court cases too - they deserted, we all know they don't face any punishment that is too harsh so round them up and send them home.

 

[North Star]

Sorry for being a little slow, but I just finished Bob Rae's article.

Now, I was a kid when he was Premier, and saw what his waffling, half-mooned socialism did to Ontario. So, I don't have much respect for his leadership and reasoning abilities. I do find, however, that as a leftist academic (which does not require reasoning in the slightest) he's ok. Not a compliment for a politician.

Following his argument, he makes one crucial, blatant error, the reprecussions of which are huge. At one point, he argues that because a few of the reasons behind the war in Iraq turned out not be be completely "true", disobedience to the executive authority is permitted. (note: 550 tonnes of Yellow Cake arrived from Iraq to Canada a few weeks ago)

Think about that - it flies in the face of all military thought from Sun Tzu to the present. All conflict have started for reasons that evolved during the conflict itself. Some of those reasons turned out to be flawed, but did not in the slightest detract from the importance of the conflict. World War Two is an excellent example - it was fought to contain Nazi Germany but as the conflict continued, it became about much, much more.

Using this logic, when my dad was a teacher in the Rae days, he should have sat on his butt and not gone to work. Rae promised massive improvements to education when he got elected. Instead, once he looked at the books he realized that wasn't possible and instituted poorly-administered cost cuts. The situation had changed. It happens, and the only way to mitigate Rae's damage was for my dad to head into work and to deal with it.

I hope to God this guy never gets near a cabinet post.

Endeth the rant.

 

[larry Strong]

And he's gone....good riddance. Reproduced in accordance with the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080715/Army_deserter_080715/20080715?hub=TopStories

Canada deports U.S. soldier opposed to Iraq war
Updated Tue. Jul. 15 2008 5:46 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A U.S. soldier who fled to Canada because he refused to serve in Iraq has been deported, and now faces a possible court martial.

Robin Long crossed the border into Canada in 2005. Last October, he was arrested in Nelson, B.C., on a Canada-wide warrant.

He called military operations in Iraq "an illegal war of aggression."

On Monday, Federal Court of Canada Justice Anne Mactavish said Long did not provide enough convincing evidence that he will face irreparable harm if he's sent back to the United States.

She noted that the percentage of American military deserters prosecuted in the U.S. has increased since 2002. However, she said the vast majority were not prosecuted, let alone jailed for desertion.

Between 2002 and 2006, Mactavish said about 94 per cent of U.S. deserters only received "a less than honourable discharge from the military."

Long, 25, had argued that he would be "singled out for harsh treatment by the Americans because of the publicity associated with his case."

But the judge ruled that Long failed to provide clear evidence in support of his argument.

Following the ruling, the chairman of the Vancouver War Resisters' Support Campaign said he believed Long's deportation would be the first time an army deserter has been forced out of Canada.

Bob Ages said Long will likely be returned to Fort Knox.

"We will be caucusing, trying to figure out what we can do,'' said Ages.

Long is one of several U.S. army deserters who claimed refugee status in Canada but none have yet been successful.

 

[danchapps]

It's too bad he's gone already. I wanted to give him some granola bars for the trip. Oh well.

 

[aesop081]

One down, more to go

 

[rn_sapper]

CTV has more on the story here this morning:
http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20080715%2fArmy_deserter_080715

As said before, one down and many more to go.
This is not vietnam, there is no draft, you signed on the dotted line, the government is paying you to do a job. NOW DO THE JOB YOU ARE PAID FOR.

Yes, I know that it has been said before....but not by me.....I feel better now.

 

[OldSolduer]

"But (sniffle here) I only joined for the college money" :crybaby: