Two children killed after car nears Canadian convoy

[Jammer]

How would you classify this as an error?
In judgement?

 

[OldSolduer]

Error in the driver of said car approaching a convoy after numerous warnings not to.

 

[Jammer]

Understood.
I would submit that we have a more disciplined approach than some of our other Allies regarding this sort of incident.

 

[FastEddy]

Hello fellow friends of army.ca

Sadly thats the mentality of many of these 'ancient' cultures, an eye for an eye, in the most barbaric way. Many cannot see the good that gets done, and when a tragic event happens, we get the blame, and we are condemmed for defending ourselves by such outragous comments, and looked down upon by many.

I am not suprised.

One day this war is going to end, and nothing will change from 1879, to 1979, to 2009. Afghanistan will always be what it is, and IMHO, thats a corrupt primitive cruel tribal society, steeped in violence with revenge, with customs and traditions we, as westerners will not totally understand.

Regards,

OWDU

Hi Big Fella,  You got my vote.

I won't even comment on this one, I just hope the poor Sod doesn't get hung out to dry.

Cheers.

 

[FastEddy]

Why not put a couple of 5.56mm or 7.62mm rounds through the engine or tires instead of 25mm through the windshield?   Can convoys not deploy some spike belts to slow down cars?         

Get Real or Get some Military Experience, please.

 

[fire_guy686]

If there's any comfort to be taken here, when looking at the comments, try clicking on the "Sort by Most recommended" button - some of the more reasonable responses climb to the top.  When I last checked (10:02am), it was six pro-troops/mission vs. four anti-troops/mission in the top ten - don't be shy about dropping by and making recommendations of your own.

I still go and check out what they have to say. Some of which is so completely stupid that it's funny. Rather than posting now I usually just recommend others who have a clue about what their talking about, unless of course I see something that cannot be left alone. I used to get frustrated sometimes with some of them ,and the majority of the trolls who post there are just not worth getting frustrated over.

 

[tomahawk6]

Read this article in the Torch about incidents like this.With suicide car bombings the rage how can we fault the sentry for engaging a civilian vehicle that could endanger the enire convoy ? If you want to live to see home you shoot first and ask questions later.If the civilian driver obeyed the signs to stay back incidents like this wouldnt happen. Let me echo the author's last sentence - "each and every one of us should be glad we weren't the one who had to make that split-second decision."

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/07/life-or-death-in-split-second.html

LAV Gunners take these kinds of situations very seriously and they put alot of thought into their convoy SOPs. No one wants to kill kids and innocents - every one of us knows that we will live with the choices that we make on the roads in Kandahar. But the point at which warning shots turn into lethal force is a grey area, with each situation dependant on the circumstances. It's impossible to armchair this one.

In fall 06 I was a LAV gunner involved in a convoy op in southern Afghanistan. At one point a vehicle pulled out and began speeding towards us, and I fired my COAX in accordance with ROEs. When the dust cleared the battle aiming mark on my daysight was sitting right in the middle of some kid's head as I looked through the windshield at him sitting on the driver's lap. The driver decided to stop just in time, and I checked fire just in time. No one was hurt, but I was seriously pissed off. How the frig could the driver have been so stupid? Risking his life and his family's life like that? Doesn't he know that this game is for keeps? If the timing had been a half second off I would have wasted every single ******* person in that car. And I would have had to live with that.

In the early spring 07 another car was speeding towards us. He got the drop on us, and the ****** exploded himself on the side of my LAV. No one was hurt thankfully, aside from the suicide bomber. But what if someone was hurt? Maybe I should have been just a split second quicker on the trigger. frig, I don't know.

These are the decisions made every day by our guys in Afghanistan and it pisses me off to see this crap armchaired. Guys do enough second guessing of their own actions. They don't need john smith on army.ca or on the CBC adding to it.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

tomahawk6 - that came from a post in this thread.

 

[tomahawk6]

I guess its getting alot of play. I saw the link in a US mil blog which quoted the LAV gunner which was quoted by the Torch.Which may have been lifted from army.ca .

http://www.thedonovan.com/

 

[The Bread Guy]

In the second round of coverage, it seems the father of the kids has spoken to the media.

The longest, more detailed account I can find is in the National Post/CanWest.

This, as well as CBC online's version and Canadian Press' (via the Toronto Star and Globe & Mail) mention this version of events:  "(the father) said the driver at first pulled over but inexplicably drove back onto the highway after two armoured vehicles had passed when more were on the way."

While all the stories emphasize the "I'll Kill Canadians If I Can" messaging (with only the National Post providing a bit of context:  "When asked what he wants to happen now, Muhammed twice said he wants to "kill Canadians."  However, after a few moments, he added: "I am a poor man, they should help me." "), none of the stories I've seen so far show any indication of anybody asking either the father or the taxi driver:  "Why would you pull into the middle of a military convoy if they don't even want you too close to the front or back?"

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?  Maybe someone'll ask for the next round of stories...

Happy to hear from those who've been/done re:  how broadly folks know about staying out of the middle of NATO convoys (based on some previous posts, I'm guessing they must generally know, but I stand to be corrected).

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Who's to say that the Taliban didn't have this guess sent in to see our response to a vehicle with a kid or how this convoy would react.  Maybe further down the road the real show was waiting.  And yes they are no dummies, they no not to get anywhere close to our convoys.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sometimes the Taliban pay/force drivers and/or families to make runs at NATO convoys or positions.
-Gives them an idea how close they can get before said specific group enacts their ROEs.
-If NATO does open fire and hurt civilians then media victory for them.

Sometimes drivers are just stupid and don't pay attention.
They think if they have 5 people in a car they aren't a threat so they try and blow past convoys.
Sometimes they don't give a shit "fuck you nato" and just do what they want.


If you guys really wanna scratch your head go check out some of the left wing message forums.
Canadian soldiers execute 2 children!
Canadian assassins targeted a mans children because the man refused to let them in his house blah blah
Canadian soldiers told to target children to scare locals into turning over suspected talban.

Some people are SO detached from reality you just can't get mad at them.

I wonder though, when a suicide bomber nukes himself and takes out children does the AlJazeria network post the same kind of stories?

"Sadly today a suicide bomber killed himself targeting a NATO convoy and regrettably killed  children 3 women a grandfather and 6 camels.
Spoke persons have said that bombers need to hide in crowded markets with locals  because out in the open road they are too easily identified.  If the infidels would just leave and let us enslave the country then these little children wouldn't be dying. Atleast by IEDs"