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Turkey wants to buy S-400 systems from Russia [Merged]

tomahawk6

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Russia and Turkey are in negotiations for the sale of the S-400.

https://www.defensetech.org/2017/05/11/turkey-seeks-advanced-s-400-anti-air-missiles-russia/

Turkey and Russia are haggling over the price for Turkey’s purchase of advanced long-range S-400 anti-air missiles, billed as F-35 killers by Moscow.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan agreed on the outlines of an S-400 deal in May 3 meetings in the Black Sea resort town of Sochi.

“Now we have intensified the talks on some technical details and prices,” Turkish Defense Minister Fikri Isik said Wednesday.

“As soon as the price issue is settled, our heads — the president and the prime minister — will make a final decision,” he said, according to Turkey’s Hurriyet newspaper.

The S-400 deal is expected to be a main topic of talks at the White House next Tuesday between Erdogan and President Donald Trump.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Turkey is looking to buy two S-400 missile batteries from Russia.  Further proof for me they're not to be trusted.

https://www.google.ca/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN17N0RE
 

Journeyman

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Was discussing this over beverages yesterday.  The bartender said, "then the US should put missiles in Cuba." 

I guess she wasn't completely  asleep in History class, just dozing.  :blotto:
 

childs56

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Ha ha, not sure why we trusted them in the first place.
That part of the world has always warmed up to the side who benifits them the most, they do it with out crossing the line to far either way. That way if they need help from wither side they get it.

It's called playing both sides of the fence. It causes high tensions at times. But overall it works out well as we always need a middle man to deal with for less then desirable actions.
 

Retired AF Guy

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Journeyman said:
Was discussing this over beverages yesterday.  The bartender said, "then the US should put missiles in Cuba." 

I guess she wasn't completely  asleep in History class, just dozing.  :blotto:

Anybody I know??
 

tomahawk6

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Well Turkey has accepted delivery of its new S400 system from Russia. Look for its F=35 order to get canceled. They arent our friend anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-s-400-defense-systems-arrive-in-turkey-after-u-s-warns-of-sanctions
 

Jarnhamar

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Why on earth would the US want to include Turkey with the F35 program anyways?
 

The Bread Guy

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Jarnhamar said:
Why on earth would the US want to include Turkey with the F35 program anyways?
NATO ally?  On the org chart, anyway ...
 

tomahawk6

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BBC view. F35deal had Turkey building some of the parts. Now we want to prevent Turkey giving away the stor to the Russians.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6213/production/_86970152_s400_vehicles_624in.png
 

Harrigan

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The F35 is supposed to be the world's premier strike aircraft, so I don't get the concern about the S400.  The Russians have no doubt been collecting on the F35 since it started flying (presumably from Syria whenever the Israelis fly theirs), so why is the S400 in particular such a "bogeyman" for the F35 programme?
 

Jarnhamar

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milnews.ca said:
NATO ally?  On the org chart, anyway ...

I'm no political science major but I feel like the US and NATO should have the foresight to realize Turkey isn't  that trustworthy of an ally.
 

Good2Golf

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Jarnhamar said:
I'm no political science major but I feel like the US and NATO should have the foresight to realize Turkey isn't  that trustworthy of an ally.

Some would say, “better the Devil you know...”
 

The Bread Guy

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Jarnhamar said:
I'm no political science major but I feel like the US and NATO should have the foresight to realize Turkey isn't  that trustworthy of an ally.
You'd think that, but "greater minds than ours", right?  #AllegedAlly
Good2Golf said:
Some would say, “better the Devil you know...”
:nod:
 

DonaldMcL

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Harrigan said:
The F35 is supposed to be the world's premier strike aircraft, so I don't get the concern about the S400.  The Russians have no doubt been collecting on the F35 since it started flying (presumably from Syria whenever the Israelis fly theirs), so why is the S400 in particular such a "bogeyman" for the F35 programme?

Because Turkey can now test the F35 against Russia's newest missile threat directly. I assume those test results aren't going to stay secured and locked up deep within a military base in Turkey.
 

Kat Stevens

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I wonder what use a $400 SAM really is? I would have waited for Prime Day and got it a lot cheaper on Amazon.
 

MilEME09

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BobSlob said:
Because Turkey can now test the F35 against Russia's newest missile threat directly. I assume those test results aren't going to stay secured and locked up deep within a military base in Turkey.

I wonder just how deep in Russia's pocket Turkey is for the Russians not to worry that turkey would sell Russia out and give the S400 to say the US military to analyze. Then again the Russians are suppose to be deploying the S500 within the next 5 years so maybe they aren't as worried.
 

The Bread Guy

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MilEME09 said:
I wonder just how deep in Russia's pocket Turkey is for the Russians not to worry that turkey would sell Russia out and give the S400 to say the US military to analyze.
If public opinion is any indicator, the Turks appear to be no great fans of NATO (source) ...
 

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tomahawk6

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Russia and Turkey are working on a deal for more S400 batteries. I wonder if the Turks will pull out of NATO at some point. Washington might want to find a new airbase to replace  Incirlik AFB.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-turkey-working-on-new-s-400-missile-contract-interfax-citing-official/ar-BBXQ3F1?ocid=spartanntp
 

The Bread Guy

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Yeah, about those missiles ...
Russia reportedly included a system to distinguish between friendly and hostile aircraft that it built to NATO standards with the S-400 surface-to-air missile systems it has sold to Turkey. The same report claims that the actual coded waveforms that this identification friend-or-foe system, or IFF, uses are kept secure within an attached, but separate Turkish-made cryptologic system that the Russians do not have direct access to.

The U.S. government and other NATO allies have repeatedly raised concerns that Turkey's S-400s will not be able to work in concert with other alliance air defenses during a crisis and could give the Kremlin access to sensitive information, including details about the stealthy signature of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The United States kicked Turkey out of the F-35 program earlier this year over its purchase of the Russian air defense systems.

Russia's Gazeta newspaper published the report about Turkey's S-400s, which is clearly meant to challenge the concerns that the country won't be able to integrate surface-to-air missile systems with other allied air defenses, on Dec. 5, 2019. The story says that Turkey successfully tested the IFF system during an initial evaluation of one of its S-400s last month.

Those tests also involved checking the function of the S-400's radars. The complete systems that Turkey acquired include the 91N6E Big Bird surveillance and acquisition radar, the 96L6E Cheese Board air search and acquisition radar, and the 92N6E Grave Stone fire control radar. Only the 91N6E and the 96L6E, the latter of which was mounted on a 40V6M elevated mast, were visible in pictures and video from the testing, but Gazeta's sources said that the 92N6E was also present and active.

Those same sources said that the aircraft flew around the S-400 site at Murted Air Base, located near the Turkish capital Ankara, for approximately eight hours in total. Two of the Turkish Air Force's American-made F-16 Viper fighter jets, an older F-4E Phantom II combat jet, and an unspecified helicopter, according to Gazeta.

They flew at the radars from various directions and altitudes, including extremely low altitudes and in "dead crater" blind spots, likely a reference to a phenomenon known as the "doppler notch," which you can read about in more detail in this past War Zone piece. The testing reportedly culminated with a successful simulated engagement of an unspecified target ...
 
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