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"Toronto police officer charged in Sammy Yatim shooting"

FJAG

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garb811 said:
Finally, I find it ironic that some of the commentators were upset that the charge was 2nd Degree murder as opposed to manslaughter as they think it would be easier to get a conviction on manslaughter.  Obviously the intent in their mind is to just convict a cop as opposed to seeing justice truly served.

This points to uninformed commentators amongst the press. Manslaughter is a lesser included offence to both 1st and 2nd degree murder. Accordingly where an individual is charged with 2nd degree murder and the crown cannot establish all the requisite elements for that charge, a jury can still find an individual guilty of manslaughter as long as all the requisite elements for manslaughter are proven.
 

Jarnhamar

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garb811 said:
- The CSI effect.
Boston Marathon bombings.

  I can count on one hand where a family member, friend or neighbour has come forward and said, "Yeah, Jimmy was a dirt bag".  Rather Jimmy is always the devoted father of two beautiful kids who was just trying to get by in the world and it's obvious the police overreacted and murdered him.
My father mentioned something like this when he worked in corrections.  An inmate's family may have never visted him once in 5 years but the minute he hangs himself the family is at the door crying about how much they miss and love their errant son and how they want to sue everybody for lots of money.
 

Fishbone Jones

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ObedientiaZelum said:
Boston Marathon bombings.
My father mentioned something like this when he worked in corrections.  An inmate's family may have never visted him once in 5 years but the minute he hangs himself the family is at the door crying about how much they miss and love their errant son and how they want to sue everybody for lots of money.

QFTT
 

OldSolduer

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ObedientiaZelum said:
19
My father mentioned something like this when he worked in corrections.  An inmate's family may have never visted him once in 5 years but the minute he hangs himself the family is at the door crying about how much they miss and love their errant son and how they want to sue everybody for lots of money.

We had a case like that in Winnipeg.
19 Year old gang member approaches police with a screwdriver in a threatening manner. Police order him to drop it, he advances with it.
Cops draw, one more warning, no compliance. Cop puts two into him, gangster dead.

A certain community cries "racist white cop" until its revealed that the cop that shot him is Metis. No more hubbub after that.

And Granny said he was a saint "he wasn't no gang member" ....but everyone of the inmates in the range knew him.
 

Thompson_JM

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Jim Seggie said:
We had a case like that in Winnipeg.
19 Year old gang member approaches police with a screwdriver in a threatening manner. Police order him to drop it, he advances with it.
Cops draw, one more warning, no compliance. Cop puts two into him, gangster dead.

A certain community cries "racist white cop" until its revealed that the cop that shot him is Metis. No more hubbub after that.

And Granny said he was a saint "he wasn't no gang member" ....but everyone of the inmates in the range knew him.

IIRC it wasn't just a screwdriver, but one which had been sharpened for the express purpose of being able to go through soft body armor.... (Unless this was another shooting with similar circumstances....)

As far as the PC in Toronto goes, he is innocent until proven guilty. It's a terrible situation for everyone, and I am nothing short of disgusted at the way he was thrown under the bus in every which way. Especially the in the news. Specifically one "News" paper in Toronto named after celestial bodies....  Disgraceful, but sadly not surprising.
 

Donavann

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Well Crimes need to be revealed, and people have to want to contact the police when crimes occur. Without community assurance, policing monitoring becomes difficult.
 

JesseWZ

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You know that post is 6 months old right? Police Officers have all the same legal rights as you Donavann. If the situation was reversed the offender is still entitled to a fair trial and presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

No discussion required.
 

mariomike

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Jan 25, 2016

Forcillo guilty of attempted murder, not guilty of second-degree murder
http://www.680news.com/2016/01/25/breaking-forcillo-guilty-of-attempted-murder-not-guilty-of-second-degree-murder/
 

Pilot-Wannabe

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jollyjacktar said:
I'm scratching my head at that one.

To sum up from my understanding.  Forcillo fired two volleys of shots.  3 first.  Followed by 6 more when Yatim was on the ground.

The 2nd Degree charge he was found not guilty of was for the first 3 shots.  The Jury finding him not guilty means they found he was acting in the course of his duty.

The second volley is the attempt charge.  The first 3 shots were the fatal ones I believe hence why the second charge was attempt.  The 5.5 second pause from first to second volley was what made the whole second volley questionable.  He will probably appeal.

:2c:
 

George Wallace

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What is sad, is listening to the comments by people with absolutely no knowledge of firearms saying things like "they should shoot for the hands or legs".  I sure hope none of that type of person was on the jury.  If they don't understand that Police, and military, train to shoot the center of the visible mass, and use the "double tap", they should not have been selected.
 

Jarnhamar

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How do they know the first 3 shots were the fatal ones?

is that cop going to keep his job after putting 6 rounds into someone on the ground?
 

Pilot-Wannabe

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Ive been hearing a lot of the same. Shoot for the limbs.  Dont have the heart to tell those saying it that a leg shot can be fatal and that's secondary to the training to shoot for center mass double tap.  A guy on drugs like Yatim was probably wont stop with wounding shot regardless.

His career is over, even with an appeal regardless of the outcome.

EDIT

Results of the shots are in this article.  Second bullet was the fatal one grazing his heart.  As to how exactly the coroner determines that I have no idea.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/christie-blatchford-sammy-yatims-spine-was-shattered-and-he-was-lying-on-his-back-but-const-forcillo-kept-firing-prosecutor-says
 
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jollyjacktar

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George Wallace said:
What is sad, is listening to the comments by people with absolutely no knowledge of firearms saying things like "they should shoot for the hands or legs".  I sure hope none of that type of person was on the jury.  If they don't understand that Police, and military, train to shoot the center of the visible mass, and use the "double tap", they should not have been selected.

That is the "Hollywood" effect.  They do it in the movies and it's usually a good outcome, right?  Why can't it be done in real life like many other things in the movies.  You know, cops solver murders in under a half hour, you can dust for fingerprints anywhere and always come up with perfect ones straight away that get a hit first time on who turns out to be the prime suspect.
 

Remius

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I know I solve all of my problems with a blacklight and hard rock music.  Average time is 10mins.  Lost keys, evidence of milk spilling, cat litter, murder, you name it.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Remius said:
I know I solve all of my problems with a blacklight and hard rock music.  Average time is 10mins.  Lost keys, evidence of milk spilling, cat litter, murder, you name it.

LOL.
 

Retired AF Guy

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Jarnhamar said:
How do they know the first 3 shots were the fatal ones?

I would imagine the angle of the bullets entering the body (standing vs on the ground).

 

mariomike

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May 16, 2016

Forcillo's lawyers seek house arrest sentence in Yatim death
http://www.680news.com/2016/05/16/forcillos-lawyers-seek-house-arrest-sentence-yatim-death/
A police officer found guilty of attempted murder in the death of a teen on an empty streetcar will be back in a Toronto courtroom Monday, where his lawyers will argue for a sentence of house arrest.
Const. James Forcillo has filed a constitutional challenge to the mandatory minimum sentence of four or five years that he faces in the shooting death of 18-year-old Sammy Yatim.
 

mariomike

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Jul 28, 2016

Forcillo sentenced to six years for Yatim shooting death
http://www.680news.com/2016/07/28/live-coverage-forcillo-sentenced-to-six-years-for-yatim-shooting-death/
 

Cloud Cover

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Brauti already filed the appeal before sentencing, bail application soon. Public Order units must be on standby, Forcillo is not a threat to anyone if on bail...
 
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