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I'm amazed this topic hasn't been mentioned yet.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/apos-tiger-apos-williams-charged-202104477.html
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/apos-tiger-apos-williams-charged-202104477.html
Tiger Williams charged by MP's.
- Thread starter X Royal
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A man claiming to be Williams' lawyer has posted a media release: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jckznfiyt5374w5/MEDIA%20RELEASE%20ON%20BEHALF%20OF%20DAVE.pdf?dl=0
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X Royal said:
And so should Tiger Williams
In the bad, old days alcohol could be served on certain flights (I was on a couple) but the main pax were very senior adults (not only Canadian) and it did not get out of hand. This story from the Toronto Star seems to indicate that common sense and discipline missed some more recent flights. Based on what I saw on other flights, I am gobsmacked, although I saw one passenger lose control, but he was handled politely and firmly and all soon was well.
This story is posted under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
Military insiders– unhappy with the behaviour seen on VIP flights to visit troops overseas -- are asking questions and demanding changes. Sorry for the length.
By BRUCE CAMPION-SMITHOttawa Bureau
Mon., Feb. 19, 2018
OTTAWA—“Party Bus” and “Mardi Gras at 35,000 feet” are a couple of the nicknames given to the military Airbus flights that fly entertainers, musicians and media stars overseas for morale-raising visits with deployed soldiers.
New questions are being raised about the booze-fuelled VIP trips and the oversight of senior commanders.
Former Maple Leafs player Dave “Tiger” Williams was charged with assault and sexual assault this month after a goodwill trip last December for alleged incidents involving a female flight attendant. On that same trip, two passengers wet themselves and several complaints were made over inappropriate behaviour.
Military insiders, unhappy with the behaviour seen on these tours, are asking questions and demanding changes.
Why was a passenger allowed to bring a 40-ounce bottle of alcohol on board the military jet in Ottawa for the December flight when travellers are forbidden from carrying liquids on commercial flights? Military flights depart from the Canada Reception Centre, but passengers typically still have to go through security screening.
Why were passengers allowed to chew tobacco in the cabin when regular soldiers returning from tours of duty abroad are disciplined for the same behaviour? In this case, flight attendants were expressly told not to stop the passengers from chewing tobacco. Beer cans used for tobacco spit were left “all over the plane.”
“That’s hypocritical beyond words,” one source said.
Why were several apparently inebriated passengers allowed to board in Ottawa on Dec. 2, when airlines typically ban intoxicated travellers from boarding their flights?
Senior commanders have yet to speak about the December trip and military spokespersons have been guarded in their comments so far, citing the criminal charges against Williams and an ongoing internal investigation.
But military and defence department sources, talking to the Star on the condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly and because they fear retribution, are speaking out about these Team Canada trips.
They paint a picture of overseas flights that feature heavy drinking and a disregard for military rules and even the aviation regulations that govern passengers who fly commercial flights. “Flight attendants were told last October that on VIP flights, passengers get whatever they want, rules do not apply,” one source said.
While the December trip is in the spotlight, sources tell the Star that the tours — run for the past 12 years — have always been known for excessive drinking and a party atmosphere where sometimes passengers pass out or vomit after drinking too much.
Flight attendants who join the Trenton-based squadron that operates the fleet of Airbus aircraft have been told that the Team Canada flights are fun, but they can expect the passengers to be “handsy” and that “they’ll be all over you,” one source said.
Sources say that not all flight attendants who work on these flights have been formally trained to serve alcohol or to recognize the signs of inebriation. And although the flight was not tame, one source told the Star the “vast majority” of passengers were well-behaved.
The military has refused to say who was part of the VIP contingent for the December tour.
Gen. Jonathan Vance, the chief of defence staff, was a last-minute scratch, skipping the trip because of other commitments.
The senior military members on the trip were Lt.-Gen. Alain Parent, the vice-chief of defence staff, and Chief Warrant Officer Kevin West, the most senior non-commissioned member of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Parent and West watched movies and slept during the first leg of the trip to Athens. The military has said that neither became aware of the alleged assault involving Williams until after the trip was over. Also onboard was the civilian defence department employee who works out of Vance’s office to organize these trips.
Insiders question why military leaders travelling with the contingent failed to intervene to curb the drinking given that some passengers were “hammered,” yelling and trying to arm wrestle with the crew while music blared in the background.
“It was like a discotheque in there. The lights were down, there was booze everywhere. It was absolutely not what you would expect out of a flight, let alone a military one,” said one source familiar with what unfolded.
For this trip, the military Airbus was stocked with beer and wine and, unusually, a supply of hard liquor, including whiskey, rum and vodka.
A military spokesperson has said the liquor for the Team Canada flights is donated. But if the alcohol runs out during the trip, it gets restocked at taxpayer expense.
In the wake of the December trip, the military has put plans for a March goodwill trip on hold, in part because it’s having trouble finding VIPs to take part.
The military says it’s also now reviewing its alcohol policy for air force flights. Insiders want the booze cut back and hard liquor off the aircraft.
They say with high-ranking officers and VIP guests on these trips, the flight attendants often feel powerless to crack down on excessive drinking or bad behaviour. They want flight attendants to be empowered to stop serving drinks if a passenger has drunk too much without fear of retribution for “killing the party.”
They say all flight attendants should have the Smart Serve training required in Ontario for everyone who serves alcohol.
In a statement to the Star on Monday, the defence department said the Royal Canadian Air Force is conducting an administrative review into the incident “which will look at our policies and procedures regarding such flights.”
“We are also taking an extensive look at our Team Canada program, for which the next visit has been postponed until further notice,” the statement said.
“As we probe further into the matter to fully grasp every detail of the trip and the sequence of events, we will not comment further. We will allow the judicial and administrative processes to unfold as designed,” it said.
This story is posted under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
Military insiders– unhappy with the behaviour seen on VIP flights to visit troops overseas -- are asking questions and demanding changes. Sorry for the length.
By BRUCE CAMPION-SMITHOttawa Bureau
Mon., Feb. 19, 2018
OTTAWA—“Party Bus” and “Mardi Gras at 35,000 feet” are a couple of the nicknames given to the military Airbus flights that fly entertainers, musicians and media stars overseas for morale-raising visits with deployed soldiers.
New questions are being raised about the booze-fuelled VIP trips and the oversight of senior commanders.
Former Maple Leafs player Dave “Tiger” Williams was charged with assault and sexual assault this month after a goodwill trip last December for alleged incidents involving a female flight attendant. On that same trip, two passengers wet themselves and several complaints were made over inappropriate behaviour.
Military insiders, unhappy with the behaviour seen on these tours, are asking questions and demanding changes.
Why was a passenger allowed to bring a 40-ounce bottle of alcohol on board the military jet in Ottawa for the December flight when travellers are forbidden from carrying liquids on commercial flights? Military flights depart from the Canada Reception Centre, but passengers typically still have to go through security screening.
Why were passengers allowed to chew tobacco in the cabin when regular soldiers returning from tours of duty abroad are disciplined for the same behaviour? In this case, flight attendants were expressly told not to stop the passengers from chewing tobacco. Beer cans used for tobacco spit were left “all over the plane.”
“That’s hypocritical beyond words,” one source said.
Why were several apparently inebriated passengers allowed to board in Ottawa on Dec. 2, when airlines typically ban intoxicated travellers from boarding their flights?
Senior commanders have yet to speak about the December trip and military spokespersons have been guarded in their comments so far, citing the criminal charges against Williams and an ongoing internal investigation.
But military and defence department sources, talking to the Star on the condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly and because they fear retribution, are speaking out about these Team Canada trips.
They paint a picture of overseas flights that feature heavy drinking and a disregard for military rules and even the aviation regulations that govern passengers who fly commercial flights. “Flight attendants were told last October that on VIP flights, passengers get whatever they want, rules do not apply,” one source said.
While the December trip is in the spotlight, sources tell the Star that the tours — run for the past 12 years — have always been known for excessive drinking and a party atmosphere where sometimes passengers pass out or vomit after drinking too much.
Flight attendants who join the Trenton-based squadron that operates the fleet of Airbus aircraft have been told that the Team Canada flights are fun, but they can expect the passengers to be “handsy” and that “they’ll be all over you,” one source said.
Sources say that not all flight attendants who work on these flights have been formally trained to serve alcohol or to recognize the signs of inebriation. And although the flight was not tame, one source told the Star the “vast majority” of passengers were well-behaved.
The military has refused to say who was part of the VIP contingent for the December tour.
Gen. Jonathan Vance, the chief of defence staff, was a last-minute scratch, skipping the trip because of other commitments.
The senior military members on the trip were Lt.-Gen. Alain Parent, the vice-chief of defence staff, and Chief Warrant Officer Kevin West, the most senior non-commissioned member of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Parent and West watched movies and slept during the first leg of the trip to Athens. The military has said that neither became aware of the alleged assault involving Williams until after the trip was over. Also onboard was the civilian defence department employee who works out of Vance’s office to organize these trips.
Insiders question why military leaders travelling with the contingent failed to intervene to curb the drinking given that some passengers were “hammered,” yelling and trying to arm wrestle with the crew while music blared in the background.
“It was like a discotheque in there. The lights were down, there was booze everywhere. It was absolutely not what you would expect out of a flight, let alone a military one,” said one source familiar with what unfolded.
For this trip, the military Airbus was stocked with beer and wine and, unusually, a supply of hard liquor, including whiskey, rum and vodka.
A military spokesperson has said the liquor for the Team Canada flights is donated. But if the alcohol runs out during the trip, it gets restocked at taxpayer expense.
In the wake of the December trip, the military has put plans for a March goodwill trip on hold, in part because it’s having trouble finding VIPs to take part.
The military says it’s also now reviewing its alcohol policy for air force flights. Insiders want the booze cut back and hard liquor off the aircraft.
They say with high-ranking officers and VIP guests on these trips, the flight attendants often feel powerless to crack down on excessive drinking or bad behaviour. They want flight attendants to be empowered to stop serving drinks if a passenger has drunk too much without fear of retribution for “killing the party.”
They say all flight attendants should have the Smart Serve training required in Ontario for everyone who serves alcohol.
In a statement to the Star on Monday, the defence department said the Royal Canadian Air Force is conducting an administrative review into the incident “which will look at our policies and procedures regarding such flights.”
“We are also taking an extensive look at our Team Canada program, for which the next visit has been postponed until further notice,” the statement said.
“As we probe further into the matter to fully grasp every detail of the trip and the sequence of events, we will not comment further. We will allow the judicial and administrative processes to unfold as designed,” it said.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Smart Serve?
No. How about enforcing the no booze no tobacco rules.
But that would be “too hard”.
Lead by example.
No. How about enforcing the no booze no tobacco rules.
But that would be “too hard”.
Lead by example.
FJAG
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PMedMoe said:
That's what the latest reports are that it might go that way.
Personally I find that's the usual risk averse cop-out that the CF is famous for. One guy acts like a moron so you punish everyone by taking the privilege away. We're all grown ups. We can do better than that. Punish the guilty, not the innocents.
:cheers:
McG
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So, a group of entertainers abused privileges that military personnel don’t get on military flights. Maybe dial it down to what one can get from cattle class on Air Canada. You board sober, and you can only drink what you buy on the plane (and yes, have all the stewards smart serve qualified). While you are at it, make that level of service available to the troops too. I have never been on a CF flight that was not dry.
FJAG
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My point exactly. We do business as if every one of our troops was the lowest common denominator. To ensure that one individual doesn't do something stupid, we just forbid everyone from doing activities that are basically legal. We've created the nanny state for the CADPAT crowd.
If a service flight isn't going into an operational theater, why not sell alcohol like a commercial flight? I know. It's administratively more difficult.
:stirpot:
If a service flight isn't going into an operational theater, why not sell alcohol like a commercial flight? I know. It's administratively more difficult.
:stirpot:
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"Parent and West watched movies and slept during the first leg of the trip to Athens. The military has said that neither became aware of the alleged assault involving Williams until after the trip was over. Also onboard was the civilian defence department employee who works out of Vance’s office to organize these trips"
Perhaps they should of said something, I don't buy they were oblivious to the partying.
Perhaps they should of said something, I don't buy they were oblivious to the partying.
Just save the tax payer money and scrap VIP “morale” visits altogether.
I didn’t get to see, meet, play ball hockey etc. with any “famous” people while overseas nor did anyone else from my squadron, or many from the battle group at all for that matter and I don’t think any of us cried ourselves to sleep over it.
Seems to me these “morale” visits are more for the senior leadership than anyone else.
Want to up morale for deployed troops? Use every nickel saved to buy us kit that actually works, but I digress.
I didn’t get to see, meet, play ball hockey etc. with any “famous” people while overseas nor did anyone else from my squadron, or many from the battle group at all for that matter and I don’t think any of us cried ourselves to sleep over it.
Seems to me these “morale” visits are more for the senior leadership than anyone else.
Want to up morale for deployed troops? Use every nickel saved to buy us kit that actually works, but I digress.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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ExRCDcpl said:
100% agree. I have seen them twice and both times it was forced fun. And always seemed second rate to be honest.
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FJAG said:
Your two posts have pointed out something I've always found disappointing and sometimes infuriating about the CAF: one or two clowns FIU because they're stupid or ill-disciplined, so instead of making disciplinary examples of these clowns, the service piles on more rules making everything illegal for everybody, and removing human judgement or discretion.
Take booze for example: it has always, always been a service offence to be under the influence on duty, since the days of KR&Os. How did we fight WWI, II and Korea without a "dry" army? We did it, I suspect, by dealing with drunkenness on a case-by-case disciplinary basis.
It seems that rather than confront wrong-doers head on, and make examples of them (regardless of rank), we just pile up a big heap of regulations. Which, by the way, may not always get enforced, either...
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Halifax Tar said:
I disagree. When Team Canada came to visit us in the gulf of Oman, it was a great refresher. They played music and had stand-up comedy on the flight-deck that was first rate, the speeches by the hockey players and entertainers really made us feel appreciated, and the 2-drink limit was relaxed (slightly) for that night.
I, for one, highly recommend that they keep this initiative going. Sure, maybe not everyone on a deployed op will get to even see these guys when they show up, but don't take the opportunity away from everyone just because you were station at a different base in theatre.
Halifax Tar
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Lumber said:
Fair enough.
FYI Both times I saw them were on my 2 RCN deployments. Not my Afghan tours.
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Lumber said:
My experience on board from my trips was very different. It was mandatory fun time that prevented people from being able to go ashore and relax in a way of their choosing, or worse forced people on 1in2 to be awake to be "entertained". "Mandatory fun" is one of those two words, and usually not the latter...
The only example of it on ship that I saw that was handled well in my experience, was from my last trip when we had "Team Canada" come out for the Canada 150 celebrations in Busan, South Korea. It was not mandatory for people to attend, and because we were alongside we were allowed to drink if we wanted. People actually came out in numbers and had a good time, then we all went to bed and sailed the next day without serious incident. We likely would have had just as much fun without "Team Canada" though, as it was Canada Day and we were alongside in Busan.
The only other example I remember fondly was when the Stanley Cup was brought to KAF back in spring '07 and I happened to be in switching between troops before heading back out.
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