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The Royal Navy reintroduced black hats for submariners 6 months ago. This is the first time black hat covers have been worn for over 50 years.

dimsum

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I feel your pain brother. I can feel the proposal to the Dress committee being written now.

Done.

As an aside, someone posted the latest CA Dress committee minutes on CAF Reddit. Talk about ridiculous priorities - one was about not allowing RCAF members posted to Army lines to roll up their sleeves (CADO allows it but obviously it's for RCAF units), and not allowing RCN members in CADPAT to wear their NCD ball caps. If in NCDs, ball caps must be for the CA unit...which doesn't exist.

simon cowell facepalm GIF
 

FSTO

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The new hat has a removable cover correct? I'll have to ask the druids of naval history but wasn't the black cover for wear during winter, funerals, and at sea during operations? The white cover was for summer and peacetime.

I could also be totally out to lunch though.
 

daftandbarmy

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Done.

As an aside, someone posted the latest CA Dress committee minutes on CAF Reddit. Talk about ridiculous priorities - one was about not allowing RCAF members posted to Army lines to roll up their sleeves (CADO allows it but obviously it's for RCAF units), and not allowing RCN members in CADPAT to wear their NCD ball caps. If in NCDs, ball caps must be for the CA unit...which doesn't exist.

simon cowell facepalm GIF

As an aside...

Two days ago I saw an RCAF Officer (Flight Lt I think) walking down the street in downtown Victoria.

This is the first time I've ever seen RCAF personnel in uniform, outside of Remembrance Day, in Victoria by the way.

He was wearing a wedge cap, which I thought looked fine and clearly identified him as an aircrew bod. IOW, it seemed about as useful as a beret from that POV.

He was also wearing a tired looking tan flight suit and a (non-matching) OD green issued bomber jacket, similarly tired looking. No obvious dirt, fuel or oil stains, it just looked shabby all round. I am not an expert in the expected parade ground qualities of either garment by the way, just a semi-informed on looker.

There's a street person I see from time to time around here who has obtained a flight suit from somewhere, and this guy kind of reminded me of him in a 'dress code' kind of way.

That is all from the cheap seats ;)
 
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FSTO

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^^
Fine and dandy on the ramp or even on the base. But I saw too many LCol and above who haven't been in the cockpit in years nor whose heart rate has barely got above the resting level for years strutting about downtown Ottawa in their flight suits (usually shiny and new and straining to keep the zipper together) and leather jackets. Same for sailors in NCD's and the CADPAT group whose arses are about to wear through.
 

SeaKingTacco

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As an aside...

Two days ago I saw an RCAF Officer (Flight Lt I think) walking down the street in downtown Victoria.

This is the first time I've ever seen RCAF personnel in uniform, outside of Remembrance Day, in Victoria by the way.

He was wearing a wedge cap, which I thought looked fine and clearly identified him as an aircrew bod. IOW, it seemed about as useful as a beret from that POV.

He was also wearing a tired looking tan flight suit and a (non-matching) OD green issued bomber jacket, similarly tired looking. No obvious dirt, fuel or oil stains, it just looked shabby all round. I am not an expert in the expected parade ground qualities of either garment by the way, just a semi-informed on looker.

There's a street person I see from time to time around here who has obtained a flight suit from somewhere, and this guy kind of reminded me of him in a 'dress code' kind of way.

That is all from the cheap seats ;)
Not that it is an excuse, but we haven’t had new flight suits for years.
 

quadrapiper

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This is the first time I've ever seen RCAF personnel in uniform, outside of Remembrance Day, in Victoria by the way.
It's always surprised me how few uniforms you see on the street in Victoria, especially if you filter out CSCOTR and the artillery (and CFRC within a few blocks of their shop).

CFB Esquimalt juuust over the bridge, and I think I've seen half a dozen RCN bods downtown in the last ~15 years (and those could be MALAHAT anyway!). Wonder how Halifax compares.
 

dimsum

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He was also wearing a tired looking tan flight suit and a (non-matching) OD green issued bomber jacket, similarly tired looking. No obvious dirt, fuel or oil stains, it just looked shabby all round. I am not an expert in the expected parade ground qualities of either garment by the way, just a semi-informed on looker.
I don't suppose you looked that closely, but the new flight suits (the ones with the rounded collar) fade really quickly. One of our AES Ops had one where it went from green to tan over 1-2 years - you could see the difference if he flipped up his collar.

I joked at the time that it was a cost-saving measure to only issue one colour of flight suit, and let it fade to the desired colour palette :sneaky:
 

dapaterson

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I once saw a tired, run down, decrepit man outside the Rideau Centre in downtown Ottawa, in clothes that I'd rather burn than use as rags to mop up spilled oil. I was tempted to give him $5 to get something to eat.

The next day I was in a meeting with him, a CDR in the Legal branch...
 

daftandbarmy

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I don't suppose you looked that closely, but the new flight suits (the ones with the rounded collar) fade really quickly. One of our AES Ops had one where it went from green to tan over 1-2 years - you could see the difference if he flipped up his collar.

I joked at the time that it was a cost-saving measure to only issue one colour of flight suit, and let it fade to the desired colour palette :sneaky:

You may be right... it definitely didn't look like it was 'constructed' to be tan...
 

Happy Guy

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I feel your pain brother. I can feel the proposal to the Dress committee being written now.
Actually the BN will need to at least incl the fol:
  • historical background of the RCN wearing the black hat - prove tradition.
  • when you should wear this? Winter only? On ship only?
  • how the morale of RCN will dramatically improve and will attract % more recruits to the RCN - to justify the bling
  • who will this affect? Just the submariners or should all RCN pers get it too?
  • cost analysis - how much ? A missive will be sent to ADM(MAT) Clothing Section to figure this out, amongst their other priorities like ops clo and What this cover should be made of? If approved when production? Does this hat need to be fire retardant since it is worn on ships?
  • has the GBA+ analysis been done?
  • will the wearing of the black hat cause any adverse reaction among diverse Cdn public?
  • how will it look with the RCN uniform? Male? Female? Sikh version? Officer? NCM? What about hijab? Can you wear this will be pony tail? With a hair bun? What about people with black hair? What about people with a dark complexion? Should the Admirals and/or Capt (N) get a slightly different style because they are very Sr Offrs? What about the CPO1s? Will it look good for people who are slightly overweight?
  • will this hat put left handed people at a disadvantage? What about people with pets - pets shed a lot of hair which might should up more on a black hat.
  • will there be a need for a trial or a series of trials?
  • obtain a copy of this hat to show to the senior RCN staff
  • Canadianize the black hat?
  • How will the other environments feel with this change? Will they be jealous and attempt to get similar black hat too?

Just to name a few points. Lots of staff time required.

Cheers
 

daftandbarmy

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Actually the BN will need to at least incl the fol:
  • historical background of the RCN wearing the black hat - prove tradition.
  • when you should wear this? Winter only? On ship only?
  • how the morale of RCN will dramatically improve and will attract % more recruits to the RCN - to justify the bling
  • who will this affect? Just the submariners or should all RCN pers get it too?
  • cost analysis - how much ? A missive will be sent to ADM(MAT) Clothing Section to figure this out, amongst their other priorities like ops clo and What this cover should be made of? If approved when production? Does this hat need to be fire retardant since it is worn on ships?
  • has the GBA+ analysis been done?
  • will the wearing of the black hat cause any adverse reaction among diverse Cdn public?
  • how will it look with the RCN uniform? Male? Female? Sikh version? Officer? NCM? What about hijab? Can you wear this will be pony tail? With a hair bun? What about people with black hair? What about people with a dark complexion? Should the Admirals and/or Capt (N) get a slightly different style because they are very Sr Offrs? What about the CPO1s? Will it look good for people who are slightly overweight?
  • will this hat put left handed people at a disadvantage? What about people with pets - pets shed a lot of hair which might should up more on a black hat.
  • will there be a need for a trial or a series of trials?
  • obtain a copy of this hat to show to the senior RCN staff
  • Canadianize the black hat?
  • How will the other environments feel with this change? Will they be jealous and attempt to get similar black hat too?

Just to name a few points. Lots of staff time required.

Cheers

Dude.... you forgot the most important feature for today's woke military:

The 'B' in BIPOC stands for Black.

You're welcome ;)

the rock maui GIF
 

dimsum

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  • How will the other environments feel with this change? Will they be jealous and attempt to get similar black hat too?
I know your post was facetious (or at least I hope it was), but I'm willing to bet most of the RCAF does not care.
 

Happy Guy

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I was being facetious, but .... I am left handed and the world has been against me. The FNC1 ejected empty cartridges on the right which meant I suffered from having the occasional hot casing in my face. The CAF only buy scissors for right handed people. I hope that the new black hat is ambidextrous in function so left handed people will be able to remove it and put in on with no problems.

I just hope that the staffer who writes the BN for a new RCN black hat will seriously consider the plight of left handed people.
 

medicineman

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By the looks of it it's only the Army who gets in tizzy about what the other services do with uniforms.
There was a CPO1 in Esquimalt when I was there that liked to make life miserable for Army folks - I frequently told him to his face he didn't know what he was talking about AND was apparently illiterate. Rarely went over well as I was a mere WO...hey, maybe that's why I was always Base Duty WO/POOD on Halloween night/weekend.
 
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