The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

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https://armadainternational.com/2019/10/lightning-reflexes/

This article seems to have a decent open-source overview of some of the capabilities.

 

[GK .Dundas]

As of now, they want to keep the Hornets operational until 2032.
[/quote

It is 2070 , the US Air Force announced the retirement of it's last manned fighter.
Meanwhile in Canada, the government is optimistic that the C.F. 18 replacement programme will be back on track by mid decade.

 

[dimsum]

As of now, they want to keep the Hornets operational until 2032.
[/quote

It is 2070 , the US Air Force announced the retirement of it's last manned fighter.
Meanwhile in Canada, the government is optimistic that the C.F. 18 replacement programme will be back on track by mid decade.

...is this where the the enemy realizes it can disrupt/take over the comms links to the RPAS but because the CF-18s are too "dumb", it can't be controlled? 

If so, the RCAF is really playing the long game  :rofl:

 

[lenaitch]

...is this where the the enemy realizes it can disrupt/take over the comms links to the RPAS but because the CF-18s are too "dumb", it can't be controlled?

If so, the RCAF is really playing the long game

Battlestar Galactica!

 

[MilEME09]

Battlestar Galactica!

So say we all!, seriously though there is something to say about low tech solutions to high tech problems, wasn't it the soviets who brought home some F-5's after Vietnam only to discover they kicked the Mig-21's ass, not crazy badly but badly enough.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Does anyone know the cost of these 78 Super Hornet Block III being supplied to the USN? 10,000 hrs airframe life sounds like our kind of plane!!!!

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/boeing-delivers-first-f-a-18-block-iii-super-hornets-to-us-navy/

 

[dapaterson]

The incremental physical infra costs to add the SH to the RCAF would make that acquisition a non starter unless we plan to also buy new build SH as the future fighter.

 

[Good2Golf]

The incremental physical infra costs to add the SH to the RCAF would make that acquisition a non starter unless we plan to also buy new build SH as the future fighter.

I have the sense that the current government Is willing to swallow several poising pills just to keep PMJT shielded from any potential criticism of an un-kept (2015) campaign promise (“No new F-35s!”).  Electoral reform un-kept promise, etc. notwithstanding, I think the Liberals will die on a hill before they admit that the L-35 is the most capable and lowest full life-cycle cost option...probably wait until the next election (hoping for a majority in 21/22...).

 

[MTShaw]

I have the sense that the current government Is willing to swallow several poising pills just to keep PMJT shielded from any potential criticism of an un-kept (2015) campaign promise (%u201CNo new F-35s!%u201D).  Electoral reform un-kept promise, etc. notwithstanding, I think the Liberals will die on a hill before they admit that the L-35 is the most capable and lowest full life-cycle cost option...probably wait until the next election (hoping for a majority in 21/22...).

How is the F-35 the lowest full cycle cost option? $36000 vs $18000 super hornet cost per flying hour? The crazy infra costs due to the oddly specific hangar power Requirements. Those infra requirements needing to be met in Inuvik and Iqaluit.

Those are three things, amongst others, that make the F-35 more expensive to operate. I%u2019m not saying that they should not make up the majority of our fleet, but lets be realistic.

 

[Good2Golf]

Show me a source that compares those hourly operating costs the same way that DND life-cycle costs things and I’ll consider it.  Until then, those are just numbers that people selectively pick to prove their own points.  Let’s go back in a time machine to 1982 and point out to the NFA Project how much more the the CF-188 is going to cost. 

 

[MTShaw]

Show me a source that compares those hourly operating costs the same way that DND life-cycle costs things and I’ll consider it.  Until then, those are just numbers that people selectively pick to prove their own points.  Let’s go back in a time machine to 1982 and point out to the NFA Project how much more the the CF-188 is going to cost.

You provide them as you made the claim first. Those numbers seem to be common but may not be accurate.

 

[AlexanderM]

I have the sense that the current government Is willing to swallow several poising pills just to keep PMJT shielded from any potential criticism of an un-kept (2015) campaign promise (“No new F-35s!”).  Electoral reform un-kept promise, etc. notwithstanding, I think the Liberals will die on a hill before they admit that the L-35 is the most capable and lowest full life-cycle cost option...probably wait until the next election (hoping for a majority in 21/22...).

I agree with you, it's like going after the guns was a way of getting more idealists back on board with the party, or firming their support of the party, whichever, so it was political. In the same way the idealists likely would not like the purchase of the F-35, so the Liberals won't risk it. I for one am not in favor of having idealists driving the bus. I understand they are now in a position to win a majority and even then they'll want to keep all the idealists happy. IMO

 

[Cloud Cover]

Until now this is a government focused on optics not budgets, but that may change (for better or for worse).

 

[MTShaw]

Until now this is a government focused on optics not budgets, but that may change (for better or for worse).

I hope everything below makes sense as I have aphasia.

To be fair, all governments are focused on optics. Yet we all expect the conservatives to balance the budget. The don’t. The last balanced budget happened before Harper. The next balanced will likely come after PMJT. Taxes will likely go up to pre conservative levels before we see a balanced budgets.

BTW, I am a dreamer. I believe we should let Europe take care of itself and Canada should join or make some sort of Northcom with US, Norway, Denmark and Canada, as it’s unlikely Germany will come to our defense if we are attacked.

As for the type of plane we need more than one type of plain. One will likelybe the F-35 due to US pressure, the other will likely be the F-39 because of the industrial coalition Saab has developed. We had mixed fleets before the f-18.

I also think that we should buy  rq-9c along with the rq-9b because the avenger’s greater payload and can bomb the shit out anyone who encroachers on our territory.

Dreamer, pragmatic and fiercely patriotic. I’m sick of Canada preparing to fight other people’s wars.

Canada First.

 

[dimsum]

I also think that we should buy  rq-9c along with the rq-9b because the avenger’s greater payload and can bomb the shit out anyone who encroachers on our territory.

Thing is, the Avenger isn't really in production - it has no customers.  Even the USAF isn't buying any, which would mean that if we were to get it we would be the launch customer...we've been down that road before with the Cyclone.

 

[MTShaw]

Thing is, the Avenger isn't really in production - it has no customers.  Even the USAF isn't buying any, which would mean that if we were to get it we would be the launch customer...we've been down that road before with the Cyclone.

Then we are going to have to buy some big, super long distance planes that can have rest areas for a second crew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_Corporate_Jets#Airbus_ACJ330-200.

We could select the airframe and and put a tender out for systems and integration. Thales and Raytheon?

 

[dapaterson]

We could select the airframe and and put a tender out for systems and integration. Thales and Raytheon?

Canada is too small to effectively procure and sustain bespoke fleets.  The acquisition and integration risks are tremendous (see again, Cyclone; delays with Aurora modernization; delays with CF18 modernization throughout its lifecycle (some masked by dumb luck related to changes in exchange rates...)).

Our success with C17, C130J and 'Hook acquisitions was that in the first two instances "Canadianization" consisted of the roundel on the tail; in the latter, it was primarily collaborative with the vendor who was making us the launch customer for a modernization of an existing line - and the Canadian Good Idea Engineers were (mostly) kept at bay.


TL;DR - Keep most AERE and SIGS officers away from requirements.

 

[OldSolduer]

the Canadian Good Idea Engineers were (mostly) kept at bay.

Can you send some fairy killers here?

 

[Quirky]

As for the type of plane we need more than one type of plain. One will likelybe the F-35 due to US pressure, the other will likely be the F-39 because of the industrial coalition Saab has developed.

It will be the F-35 because it's the right aircraft for Canada, not because of US pressure. Secondly, Canadian companies are already building parts for the F-35 (https://www.f35.com/global/participation/canada-industrial-participation), how many SAAB components are currently being built? None. The "Super Gripen" just completed its first flight last month while the F-35 has already flown combat missions. Going for the Gripen is not only a poor choice knowing it's capabilities, and lack there of, but also just plain stupid.

 

[MTShaw]

It will be the F-35 because it's the right aircraft for Canada, not because of US pressure. Secondly, Canadian companies are already building parts for the F-35 (https://www.f35.com/global/participation/canada-industrial-participation), how many SAAB components are currently being built? None. The "Super Gripen" just completed its first flight last month while the F-35 has already flown combat government missions. Going for the Gripen is not only a poor choice knowing it's capabilities, and lack there of, but also just plain stupid.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I agree that the F35 is likely the best plane without  access to classified material.

But I was referring to optics. Saab has a very visible industrial coalition. That may every one on both sides of aisle pause.

And Lockheed wouldn't pull production if we went back to 65 planes.

And governments never do stupid shit.