The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged

[the 48th regulator]

I did not want to wade in, but I could not take it anymore.

The Royal Canadian Legionary Mafia had no problems, exactly one year ago to send a cease and desist to a website claiming copyright infringement, to a website dedicated to Veterans.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/67633.0.html

However, every year we are shocked when a Veteran is asked to leave a location for distributing poppies.

How hard would it have been for them to draw up a letter, and send it to major retailers, asking for their participation?

To me it is all a ploy, as they know that it will give the legion media air play, in a time when Civilians outnumber Veterans, amongst their rank and file.

I have been to enough Legions, with medals on, only to be turned away at the door because I did not know anyone who could "sign me in".

They are behind the times, and it is high time they stop playing on the compassions of the Canadian public.

dileas

tess

 

[rwgill]

No I would not, but I would let a vet sell poppies or cadets for that matter, and let other similar causes like cancer and nasty disease fund raisers do the same at the enterance to my shop.

We can agree to disagree rw.

Cheers and regards,

OWDU

Most definately we can agree to disagree, and I am in no way upset with you.  

Please understand that businesses are asked, on a regular basis, for donations and other support for all sorts of fundraising ventures.  I get several phone calls a week and the number is going up (thanks to DNCL.ca).  There is a point where businesses will start saying "NO" (it's called donour fatigue).  Unfortunately, one day, it will happen to someone, like a vet, and it will start a debate.  This whole story could have happened to any charity or good cause.

I treat my vets with care, give them extra attention and pay more than my fair share of "poppy" dues.  

Cheers to you :cheers:

 

[military granny]

Well guys now its time for me to wade it in. I work for the Legion and have for the last four years, and have had a big hand in the Poppy Campaign for the last two. We never send out our Vets without name tags and identification. We also order volunteer ribbons we attach to their name tags. And I always send out letters to every business in the area letting them know when the campaign starts and asking permission to drop off Poppy trays. We do this every year and the pre Poppy season for me starts in mid September. If this gentleman's
Legion did not ask the Bay's permission to allow the Poppy sales to take place on their property then it is not the Veteran's fault its the branch he was volunteering for.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Well guys now its time for me to wade it in. I work for the Legion and have for the last four years, and have had a big hand in the Poppy Campaign for the last two. We never send out our Vets without name tags and identification. We also order volunteer ribbons we attach to their name tags. And I always send out letters to every business in the area letting them know when the campaign starts and asking permission to drop off Poppy trays. We do this every year and the pre Poppy season for me starts in mid September. If this gentleman's
Legion did not ask the Bay's permission to allow the Poppy sales to take place on their property then it is not the Veteran's fault its the branch he was volunteering for.

Excellent view,

However, does this not exemplify what I was saying in my post?

Why no unified effort to get allt he ducks in order, and inform the retail establishment of the fact we are collecting for the poppy fund?

We can sit here and moan about respect, however, the Legion wishes to ride on the "feel good feelings" of the general public, near November Eleventh.

This battle of Vets being removed, has been going on for ages, and I can not understand why the RCL does nothing about it.  To me it's as if it is part of the plan, to get the message out about the Legion.

dileas

tess

 

[1feral1]

could this have been a logistics issue, say long in advance, a letter sent out by the Legion to The Bay (and other Canadian national retailers) for example, asking permission. If this was not done, then maybe it should. Perhaps Legion Command is at fault???

Just quoting myself  ;D .

Thanks for the input Mil Granny.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good posts Tess.  Not very PC but accurate IMO.

This problem has been going on a while- the legion should have recognized this long ago and took steps to address it.

How would we feel about Americans coming into our stores  without permission selling American flags and bald eagle T-shirts and when challanged, answer 'well we turned the tide of ww2 you owe us'.

On a side note considering the big amount of positive support Canadians have "for the troops" I would consider selling poppies quite profitable. I've seen some pretty big collection boxes.
If people are willing to lie about their military service for free drinks and false respect it's not hard to imagine someone nabbing a box of poppies (or ordering them offline) and making serious coin from them.

 

[Strike]

The problem lies with a specific Legion branch.  Some of them are all very open and understand the responsibility they have in making sure the word gets out, the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.  Others feel that they are above this and don't bother.  I bet there are other organizations out there that pull the same stunt.  It is not every Legion branch that acts this way, but the National board has a responsibility to make sure every branch knows what the process is and follows it to the letter.  That way, when crap like this happens, the National board can step in and say, "It is common practice for us to contact businesses and ask permission to solicit.  If this has not been done it is the fault of a specific branch and not the Legion as a whole.  We are not above the law."

Of course, this is all good free press for them.  :

 

[Blackadder1916]

I keep wondering why "Hudson Bay Co" is still in the title of this thread.  Reading the article in the opening post, it is obvious that the reporter lacks the simplest of research skills and was trying to stir controversy, but then it is "The Sun" and they are not really noted for avoiding boobs, blood and bombastic disputes (even if they have to poke things with a stick to get it going).

He was inside the Bay office tower at Yonge and Bloor Sts. selling poppies . . .

While the property at Bloor and Yonge still maintains the name "Hudson's Bay Centre" and is a prime location for one of The Bay's stores, it is no longer owned by HBC (or whatever that corporate entity is now called).  Though The Bay is still the major retail outlet at that location it is just but one tenant.

http://www.brookfieldproperties.com/building/detail.cfm?BID=229

The Hudson's Bay Centre comprises a 535,000 square foot office tower at 2 Bloor Street East, The Bay department store, Marriott Hotel, apartments, condominiums and an extensive retail concourse with a variety of retail shops and services.  . . .

Of course there were no details in the story to contradict my interpretation that the veteran in question was not standing at the entrance (or elsewhere in the concourse) but was wandering the hallways of a 35 story building going from office to office soliciting.  That (to me) puts a different spin on things.  If I was paying the exorbitant rent that location commands, I would certainly want my lease to include security services that effectively prevents unauthorized soliciting from coming to my business.  If Brookfield Properties did not take steps to do that, I would have cause of action that they violated the terms of the lease.  As a side note, a building where I once worked handled a similar poppy campaign solicitation situation by notifying tenants in advance that reps from the RCL had been authorized and would be in the building on certain dates campaigning.

Of course Brookfield Properties flinched and apologized.  That is what any business does these days to limit bad publicity, though I would have to agree that they were not in the wrong.  Consider the context of the original action of their security personnel.  This is not some small storefront business in a strip mall whose owner-operator ejected a veteran,  this is a half million square foot office building with multiple tenants.

But it also could be construed that the Legion perhaps agreed with (or at least understood) their action.

Pebble Carrier, a member of the Royal Canadian Legion, Branch 344, says members should get clearance from companies before they started campaigning.

"There are some who would go out (not representing any organization) and are just panhandling," he said.

And then maybe the veteran in question should have known better and arranged prior authorization.  Or maybe he is the proverbial old coot (sharing the views of some here) who feels that his status gives him the right to go anywhere he pleases, even on others' private property.

Lawrence had a similar experience five years ago at the Toronto Stock Exchange.

 

[George Wallace]

I keep wondering why "Hudson Bay Co" is still in the title of this thread. 

It isn't.  However, if you insist on quoting someone else's post and not using due diligence to change the title, then you only perpetuate the problem.  You will notice that the original post has had the title modified.  Subsequent posts were not changed.  If you insist on quoting someone's post, your post will take on their posts title.  You can edit your title all you want, prior to posting.  It is up to you.

 

[OldSolduer]

Try kicking someone who canvasses for breast cancer from in front of a business....The result won't be pretty. Yet its OK to do it to a veteran, who may have been wounded or seen friends die.

 

[Gunnar]

Polite decline letters from major corporations who don't wish to get involved in anything "controversial" don't make the press, because it doesn't involve people or principles, just an exchange of polite letters.  Typically, if they don't make the press, the public doesn't care.  And if the public doesn't care, there are no poppy sales, and no remembrance.

I understand the course of action they should have followed, and that yes, the Legion is not above the law.  But year after year, more and more, people figuratively spit in the face of those who died by finding ways to ignore those "violent" soldiers, because "they don't believe in war".  There's fewer and fewer veterans every year.  Legion branches are closing.  And the public at large is breaking faith with those who lie...Who holds the torch?

Who's tag line is it, ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas?

I think I'm just venting more than anything else here....somebody cheer me up.  

 

[The Bread Guy]

Don't know if this'll cheer you up, but here goes nonetheless

.... if the public doesn't care, there are no poppy sales, and no remembrance ....

To me, no poppy sales =/= no remembrance - I think a lot of people think about the fallen (and injured) of wars,  past and present. 

Lower poppy sales=less $ available for Legion programming?  That could be a worry...

Polite decline letters from major corporations who don't wish to get involved in anything "controversial" don't make the press, because it doesn't involve people or principles, just an exchange of polite letters.  Typically, if they don't make the press, the public doesn't care  .... year after year, more and more, people figuratively spit in the face of those who died by finding ways to ignore those "violent" soldiers, because "they don't believe in war".

I feel your frustration, but all this is part of living in a democracy.  All we can do is publicly (here and elsewhere) try to give more and more of the rest of the story.

There's fewer and fewer veterans every year.  

Maybe WWI and WW2 vets, but more recent vets' ranks are growing.

Legion branches are closing.  

While I respect the work of EVERY member of the Legion, I think some of this is attributable to previous shortsightedness on the part of the institution as a whole re:  recruitment.  In some cases, it appears that there may be parochial politics (in Thunder Bay, for example, there are several ailing Legions in a city of ~110,000 which, from what I can see, don't want to amalgamate - this local parocialism is also why there are three Remembrance Day services in three separate locations here, too).  The few Legion branches mentioned above who don't appear to be getting advance permission for fundraising may also be hurting those following the rules.  Times change, institutions have to change with them.

And the public at large is breaking faith with those who lie...Who holds the torch?

In my opinion, those of us who choose to share the REST of the story publicly help hold the torch.  Should more do so?  Sure.  Is it zero?  Not yet, baby!

I think I'm just venting more than anything else here....somebody cheer me up.  

Venting here is good - that's how more stuff gets out.

Don't know how much that helped.

Back to the thread topic - if the vet in question was dealt with politely by staff enforcing rules they're mandated to enforce, I don't think he or other vets were "disrespected".  And if the Legion he was canvassing for didn't do the initial leg-work/liaison work, it dropped the ball.

 

[Shec]

... it appears that there may be parochial politics (in Thunder Bay, for example, there are several ailing Legions in a city of ~110,000 which, from what I can see, don't want to amalgamate - this local parocialism is also why there are three Remembrance Day services in three separate locations here, too).  The few Legion branches mentioned above who don't appear to be getting advance permission for fundraising may also be hurting those following the rules.  Times change, institutions have to change with them...

An astute and a prophetic observation Tony.  I think that amalgamation is a survival imperative.  I recently received a letter from my  branch in Winnipeg, which for perhaps parochial reasons of my own I have remained a member of even though I no longer live there,  (15 years ago they turned out in full force when my father passed & so I owe them my loyalty) advising that is just initiating closure discussions with RCL Dominion Command, and will be history in approx. 2 years time. 

 

[Strike]

An astute and a prophetic observation Tony.  I think that amalgamation is a survival imperative.  I recently received a letter from my  branch in Winnipeg, which for perhaps parochial reasons of my own I have remained a member of even though I no longer live there,  (15 years ago they turned out in full force when my father passed & so I owe them my loyalty) advising that is just initiating closure discussions with RCL Dominion Command, and will be history in approx. 2 years time. 

Legion 9 in Kingston comes to mind.  A perfect example of not being able to change with the times and petty politics.

 

[X Royal]

Legion 9 in Kingston comes to mind.  A perfect example of not being able to change with the times and petty politics.

An aside from the thread. This summer a Kingston legion branch (#-?) hosted our (RCR) 125th anniversary. They did a great job. Thanks to all involved.

Rick

 

[The Bread Guy]

Legion 9 in Kingston comes to mind.  A perfect example of not being able to change with the times and petty politics.

I recently received a letter from my  branch in Winnipeg ....  advising that is just initiating closure discussions with RCL Dominion Command, and will be history in approx. 2 years time. 

Interesting hearing variations on the same theme from all over...

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Interesting hearing variations on the same theme from all over...

Yet there are also good stories also,....Elora Branch 229 was doing the paperwork to sell the building and to give up their charter 2 years ago but decided to give it one last hurrah and, apparently putting in a patio area made all the difference in the world.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

I received this from a member who didn't want to post directly, as they are involved with the Legion:

I wanted to bring to the forums attention that McDonald's Restaurants will not let Legions across Canada leave the Poppy trays in their restaurant's unless they are manned. As you probably know there isn't enough Legionairs  left to have one sit in the restaurant's all day. This has come down from McDonald's head office. I really think that the forum members need to know this because McDonald's is a world wide restaurant. The Legionairs, their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren have grown up supporting McDonald's and now at the one time a year we ask for their support in return we have been told basically only if one of your elderly members will sit here all day for the two week period of the campaign. This is a condition we can not meet.



Interesting... I wonder what the motivation is from McDonalds corporate to do this?

 

[armyvern]

Guess Vern has now eaten her last after PT breaky from Mc DODOs.

Gee, what's it worth a year for "2 X Sausage & Egg McMuffin meals, large sized, just put the 2 coffee in one cup" ... X 3 mornings a week? Guess I'll have to get used to those Timmies biscuits now.

McDonalds ... BAD on you!! 

 

[stealthylizard]

I'd like to see a link to this story.