The Personal Weapons Test (C7 PWT)

[combat_medic]

Got a quick question. My unit is going to be doing a range ex in the near future, and we‘re all doing the PWT (personal weapons test). Now, I was told that because I‘m a medic and not in the infantry, that I don‘t need as high of a score to pass, and that it‘s far easier for me to get crossed rifles as a non-combat arms trade.

Does anyone know if there‘s any truth to this? It‘s bad enough to be judged on a sliding scale already by being female, and now this? I‘d hate to think that if I earned marksman that it would mean any less than if anyone else got it. Can anyone confirm/deny this?  :sniper:

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You need a Level II, Infantry need level III.

I am a company clerk in a rifle company, I shoot to Level II standards only, consistent with my trade. I shot 100 percent last time out - at the computerized range in Edmonton - so they all thought it would be a great honour if I did the Level III shoot as well and try to earn my marksmanship badge. You can‘t get it, AFAIK, by shooting only Level II.

But you should only have to shoot to Level II, consistent with your trade. Level III involves a run down. So to earn that coveted marksmanship badge, you have to shoot to the higher standard - rightly so.

 

[combat_medic]

Phew, i was worried. My unit is running the PWT III and it‘s almost a hassle to run a separate PWT for just me, so they‘re letting me do the III. Think happy marksman thoughts... my uniform is far too un-decorated for my taste, even with my new corporal rank.

 

[Doug VT]

A separate PWT does not have to be run at all. The PWT II is the almost the same as the III minus the run-down and the night supp. All you have to do is participate up to this point and you should be good to go. However, doing level III may be a good experience if you‘ve never done it before. It makes you appreciate the differences that an increased heart rate and rate of breathing make on the fall of shot. Here‘s a run down of the PWT III:

SIGHTING(any)
100m
fig 11
5 rds

GROUPING(prone)
100m
fig 11
5 rds
best 4 rds count
6"=5 pts 8"=3 pts

APPLICATION(prone)
200m
fig 11
5 rds
1 pt per hit
tgt falls when hit

SNAP SHOOTING
200m
fig 11(on stick)
1 trial exp
2 rds per exp, 1 pt per hit
2 exp of 5 sec in prone
3 exp of 8 sec in kneeling

RAPID FIRE(trench or prone)
200m
fig 11
15 rds 1 pt per hit
40 sec exp
rifle loaded w/10 rd mag, change mags

APPLICATION(prone)
INFANTRY ONLY
300m
fig 11
5 rds
1 pt per hit, tgt falls when hit

SNAP SHOOTING(trench or prone)
INFANTRY ONLY
300m
2 fig 11‘s
10 rds
1 pt per hit
5 exp, 2 rds at each exp

FIRE MOVEMENT(run down)
INFANTRY ONLY
14rd mag+20 rd mag
1 pt per hit
400m in the prone....tgt appears 45 sec exp

run to the 300m
2 fig 11‘s
3 rds into each tgt in the prone
tgt goes down....tgt appears 45 sec exp

run to the 200m
2 fig 11‘s
4 rds into each tgt in the kneeling
change mags
tgt goes down....tgt appears 45 sec exp

run to the 100m
2 fig 12‘s
4 rds into each tgt in the prone
tgt goes down

stand up
alert posn
tgt appears(fig 11 on stick)
5 sec exp
kneeling posn
2 rds tgt goes down

advance
75m
tgt appears(fig 11 on stick)
5 sec exp
standing posn
2 rds tgt goes down

advance
50m
tgt appears(fig 12 on stick)
5 sec exp
standing posn
2 rds tgt goes down

advance
25m
tgt appears(fig 11 on stick)
2 exp
3 rd burst each exp

SCORING
Infantry C7
HPS - 80
MKSM - 68
PASS - 56
FAIL - below 56

OAS(other arms and services) C7
HPS - 59
MKSM - 50
PASS - 40
FAIL - below 41

MKSM = 85%
PASS = 70%

NIGHT SUPPLIMENT
INFANTRY ONLY
1. fig 11
prone
10 rds double tap for MPI
no score (range is at limit of night visibility)

2. fig 11
prone
10 rds
5 exp 5 sec each
2 rds at each exp

3. fig 11
prone
10 rds 20 sec exp

Mandatory for all INF regardless of day score.
1 pt per hit = 20 pts
PASS 50% 10 pts

Since only the Infantry are required to do the PWT III, I‘m pretty sure that we are the only ones‘ "officially" authorized to wear the marksman badges(the one with the crown)

 

[combat_medic]

Whoa, lots of info... thanks.

I know it‘s possible for people other than infantry to get the marksman badge; i‘ve seen a few wearing it. I really want to do the PWT III so that people will stop saying that my weapons skills aren‘t as good as theirs (I‘m a pretty darned good shot, if i do say so myself). Also, it‘ll help me a bit toward my goal of taking a larger part in the training of our rifle platoons, that‘s why I‘m in an infantry regiment after all.

 

[Doug VT]

I know, I‘ve seen others wear it also. That doesn‘t make it right though. In dress regs, the only "arm" that is authorized to wear it is the Infantry. Only the Infantry is required to do the PWT III. But if you do the PWT III and you qualify, then I guess it could be a unit‘s call on if you can wear the badge or not. Besides, you know how well you did anyway. Good Luck!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Doug, I just got back from the range, and the last two times out, the Level III shoot was significantly different from the Other Arms shoot - as far as I know you can‘t just "drop out‘ before the run down.

However - I believe I was in error in saying level II - someone mentioned the Other Arms shoot was Level I, which I was under the impression was the minimum standard. My mistake.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Also, just because PWT III is only required of infantry, it doesn‘t follow only infantry get to wear the marksmanship badge - I was told I could wear it if I passed the standard. If you have a CFAO or dress reg to point to I‘ll take your word, but it seems like you are guessing rather than providing solid info.

Interestingly enough, the pass rate for regular force troops doing the Level III at the range in Edmonton is only 40 percent. Our unit exceeded that, but I get the impression that acheiving a level III pass, much less a marksman‘s score, isn‘t so easy.

 

[Doug VT]

My Info may be a little old but it is out of the C7 Pam.
I‘ll check the CFAO‘s tommorrow for the badge info, if it‘s there.
40% eh?, that‘s pretty sad. The actual pass mark for the complete PWT III(inf) is 70%+50% on the night suppliment.
For OAS the pass is also 70% out of 59 possible pts=41.3, maybe that‘s where they got the 40% from?(40 pts)
Anyhow, I‘ll get an update on all this range crap and I‘ll let you know how far off I was.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Much obliged, Doug. Kind of silly how even serving members are in a fog when it comes to this stuff.

 

[jdmarshall]

FYI
AAP 1 PPCLI fired PWT-2 at night!
On the night of 17 Sep, on the ATS range in Edmonton, all 7 of the troops who fired it passed, with 2 qualifying as marksman. We were trialing some new NVGs / laser pointers and IWS. We would have shot PWT-3, but NVGs can not see the targets at 300m. It was a great night of training, and all the troops had a great time.

For more info on night fighting visit:
http://members.shaw.ca/night-vision/
NIGHT OPERATIONS

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

Hello, I have searched using the search tool about what the PWT test consist's of with no luck. Is there anyone that could point me in the right direction. I am leaving for my BMQ on Sunday and I am a little bit nervous about meeting the standards. I think I am over worrying. How hard is it to pass the qualifications. ? Thank you. Ryan

 

[D-n-A]

The PWT1 consists of shooting at 100m at a target   from different shooting positions(prone, standing, kneeling, etc) your scored on how tight your grouping is. Before you do the PWT1 shoot, your have a day on the range to practice an zero your sights. On my BMQ course, nobody failed the PWT1.

 

[scm77]

Do you do it witht the C79 or iron sights?

 

[Eowyn]

The PWT1 consists of shooting at 200m at a target   from differetn shooting positions(prone, standing, kneeling, etc) your scored on how tight your grouping is. Before you do the PWT1 shoot, your have a day on the range to practice an zero your sights. On my BMQ course, nobody failed the PWT1.

All of the serials are from the 100m.   The PWT Level 1 consists of 10 rounds grouping/zeroing from the prone.   This isn't scored.   The scored part it 5 rounds grouping in the following positions, prone, kneeling, sitting, trench (or prone) and standing.   The hardest part is the group takes all five, not the best 4 out of 5.

The Level 2 is from the 200m, which I haven't shot since the PWT was changed in Sept/Oct 03.  All of this is shot with the optical sight.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

Just to build on that you need to score a 15 out of 25 on the test to pass.

your scored a 5 points for making the 5 round grouping in the original alloted spacing, a secondary spacing is allotted for 3 points if all 5 rounds are in that area and if any of your 5 rounds land outside of that area you get a score of 0 on that serial.

 

[chrisf]

PWT1 is quite easy to pass.

They don't just toss you on to the range and say "You have 20 rounds to decide the fate of your career". You will be given all the requisite training, and if you still can't hit the target, your range coaches will figure out why, and correct it.

 

[D-n-A]

All of the serials are from the 100m.   The PWT Level 1 consists of 10 rounds grouping/zeroing from the prone.   This isn't scored.   The scored part it 5 rounds grouping in the following positions, prone, kneeling, sitting, trench (or prone) and standing.   The hardest part is the group takes all five, not the best 4 out of 5.

The Level 2 is from the 200m, which I haven't shot since the PWT was changed in Sept/Oct 03.   All of this is shot with the optical sight.

yea, i mixed up the PWT1 an PWT2 ranges  :-[

In the reserves as far as I know you shoot the C7A1(C7 with C79 sight) for the PWT1 on BMQ an for the Reg Force I believe their still using the C7 (no C79, only iron sights) for their PWT1 on BMQ.

 

[Sig_Des]

I just got back from my unit's range weekend in Pet, and we qualified with a couple of weapons.

We fired the Browning Pistol, which was fun, and we did our PWT 2. I qualified with a 47 on the day shoot, where you need a 46 to qualify marksman. What'd I'd like to know, what exactly are the shooting levels, and what scores are required to get them.

Also, are they supposed to score by groupings, or hits in the figure 11?

 

[gcros]

The PWTs can be found at the Army Electronic Library on the web at the following location:

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/300-008/B-GL-382/001/PT-001/B-GL-382-001-PT-001.pdf

See Chapter 4, Page 21 for the PWT1

Note that the pam was updated in August 2004, and the PWTs have changed somewhat from what we have used in the past. The old PWT1 was fired from the 100 and 200 and used 35 rounds. The new PWT 1 is fired entirely from the 100 and uses 25 rounds. The old PWT2 used 68 rounds, the new one uses 45. I have not compared the other practices with the earlier pam, but I expect there are many more changes.