• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

The New Death of the City

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
Ours was fully developed (in fact our house was the last one built being an infill house onto an existing lot) in a fully developed 1940s/1950s neighbourhood. We had only 16 houses on the street as it was a short cross-street connecting two longer ones but everyone of those houses had a baby boomer family. I've lost track of the numbers but I think there were about a dozen boys around my age and just a few less girls. More than enough for an almost constant daily road-hockey game which only stopped for supper hour and the occasional "car!"

:giggle:
FJAG, I think they were better times for kids. We used to roam freely. Free range! :)

Whatever house we ended up at, it was understood lunch would be served.

The adults I came in contact with seemed pretty satisfied with the way their lives were going. That confidence in the future was passed on their children.
 

Loachman

Former Army Pilot in Drag
Staff member
Directing Staff
Reaction score
451
Points
980
Wifi has become the base of the pyramid, and a very thick one.
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs has been so bastardized that I don't even recognize it anymore
Wifi has become the base of the pyramid, and a very thick one.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,806
Points
1,040
Yup.

If I were 30 years younger, and had the financial resources at that time, I would have bought acreage on a lake, installed wind and solar power, and completely cut myself off from the misguided chaos that has erupted during the last ten years.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs has been so bastardized that I don't even recognize it anymore, and most Gen (whatever letter or term they describe themselves with now) don't even acknowledge the first three on the list. I grew up in a different time, and I refuse to kowtow to or abdicate my responsibilities as a person, father, or citizen.

Sometimes priorities shift.

Our house before this one was on the shore of Lake Erie in the middle of wind power country. There was a big honking wind turbine exactly 598.5 metres from my front steps (as measured by Google Earth) yet almost half of my monthly power bill was "delivery" because we were in a rural community. Left there some seven years ago when things were idyllic but since then high water levels and wind have threatened the whole shoreline with disintegration (I strongly recommend that if you settle on a Lake don't make it a "Great Lake" but a little one with stable water levels).

We left there when things were good because as we were growing older we didn't want to live 12 kilometers from the closest supermarket nor 26 kilometres from the nearest clinic and hospital.

I greatly miss not stepping out on my deck in the morning with a cup of coffee looking out at nothing between me and Rochester except blue water and a blue sky but don't regret the move.

FJAG, I think they were better times for kids. We used to roam freely. Free range! :)

Whatever house we ended up at, it was understood lunch would be served.

The adults I came in contact with seemed pretty satisfied with the way their lives were going. That confidence in the future was passed on their children.

I agree with all of those and add one more. As I was finishing high school I was never worried about whether or not I would find a job. The question was always "which job do I want to take?" Mind you I was in one of the two grade 13 classes that graduated from my high school out of the twenty-two grade 9 classes that I started with. We had a lot of drop outs along the way in those days but they all got jobs too.

🍻
 

Loachman

Former Army Pilot in Drag
Staff member
Directing Staff
Reaction score
451
Points
980
Yes, but one did actually need a diploma in the good old days.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
378
Points
1,130
As I was finishing high school I was never worried about whether or not I would find a job. The question was always "which job do I want to take?" Mind you I was in one of the two grade 13 classes that graduated from my high school out of the twenty-two grade 9 classes that I started with. We had a lot of drop outs along the way in those days but they all got jobs too.

🍻
I think we "Baby Boomers" have had it pretty good as we pass through the "python of life".

Many people before us didn't have the same opportunity and freedoms. The Depression. The War. They weren't our problems.

The pandemic is likely the first real hardship some of us have faced.

Do your work, live your life. Simple as that.

I wouldn't be qualified to apply for my old job now.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,806
Points
1,040
Like 'Army Officer', right? :)

Yeah that's changed.

I went OCTP which only required junior matric in those days (grade 12 in ON and 11 elsewhere). My whole aim was to avoid university and I ended up being one of the 46.71% of the CAF's officer corps in 1997 who didn't have a university degree and which the "Report to the Prime Minister on the Leadership and Management of the Canadian Forces” of 25 March 1997 and the cabal of academics advising the government at the time considered to be a "remarkably ill-educated officer corps, surely one of the worst in the Western world.” Notwithstanding that I think that I turned out okay in the end - even have a shiny professional degree now and everything.

I've always thought there's a mighty difference between the present herd of folks who take 4 years of "basket weaving 101" and those of us back in the 60s and 70s who took one concentrated year of "warfighting 101". I just saw the balance leaning the other way than they did. Frankly I never saw that the university education amongst the 53.29% developed any particular spark of greatness in them. There were highly competent and highly stupid individuals in both groups in more or less equal numbers.

But maybe I was wrong. How's that highly degreed herd running the CAF these days doin'?

😇
 

Weinie

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,233
Points
1,010
Yeah that's changed.

I went OCTP which only required junior matric in those days (grade 12 in ON and 11 elsewhere). My whole aim was to avoid university and I ended up being one of the 46.71% of the CAF's officer corps in 1997 who didn't have a university degree and which the "Report to the Prime Minister on the Leadership and Management of the Canadian Forces” of 25 March 1997 and the cabal of academics advising the government at the time considered to be a "remarkably ill-educated officer corps, surely one of the worst in the Western world.” Notwithstanding that I think that I turned out okay in the end - even have a shiny professional degree now and everything.

I've always thought there's a mighty difference between the present herd of folks who take 4 years of "basket weaving 101" and those of us back in the 60s and 70s who took one concentrated year of "warfighting 101". I just saw the balance leaning the other way than they did. Frankly I never saw that the university education amongst the 53.29% developed any particular spark of greatness in them. There were highly competent and highly stupid individuals in both groups in more or less equal numbers.

But maybe I was wrong. How's that highly degreed herd running the CAF these days doin'?

😇
I am one of the few persons at my rank left in the CAF that lacks a degree . I came out of the ranks. I am also sure that many I encounter in my job, at the Strat level, require a degree. They do require some exposure to the CAF, and also reality, but mostly common sense , which seems to be in short supply.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,806
Points
1,040
I am one of the few persons at my rank left in the CAF that lacks a degree . I came out of the ranks. I am also sure that many I encounter in my job, at the Strat level, require a degree. They do require some exposure to the CAF, and also reality, but mostly common sense , which seems to be in short supply.

I do acknowledge that during my era the degreed folk had a certain advantage in that, on average, they'd had four more years of life experience that we OCTP folk even though that life experience came in the somewhat twisted world that universities were even then. Very few of them had any education that provided an advantage in our respective military careers.

I do certainly value education. I still maintain that one of the best courses I ever had was the much despised Staff School that used to run out of Avenue Road. It taught me how to study and how to work with folks who weren't gunners like me (or even Army). I doubt that I would have found law school as easy as I did without what Staff School taught me.

For me that's the point. We should take our people in early, teach them the critical elements of their job while they are young and have the physical stamina to run platoons and fly fighter jets etc and then start feeding in the necessary education to develop critical thinking and even outside experiences. It's not the degree that matters; its the quality, relevance and timeliness of the education that matters. And incidentally, those programs should be equally available to our NCOs who show promise for advancement into critical technical or leadership roles.

I just don't see why we allow our folks to waste four critical years in their young lives which for the most part teaches them nothing that applies directly to their future careers. (And yes I do know that there are some who take very relevant programs. Those can and should continue - I think I've gone down this rabbit hole before in another thread)

🍻
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
4,338
Points
1,060
I do acknowledge that during my era the degreed folk had a certain advantage in that, on average, they'd had four more years of life experience that we OCTP folk even though that life experience came in the somewhat twisted world that universities were even then. Very few of them had any education that provided an advantage in our respective military careers.

I do certainly value education. I still maintain that one of the best courses I ever had was the much despised Staff School that used to run out of Avenue Road. It taught me how to study and how to work with folks who weren't gunners like me (or even Army). I doubt that I would have found law school as easy as I did without what Staff School taught me.

For me that's the point. We should take our people in early, teach them the critical elements of their job while they are young and have the physical stamina to run platoons and fly fighter jets etc and then start feeding in the necessary education to develop critical thinking and even outside experiences. It's not the degree that matters; its the quality, relevance and timeliness of the education that matters. And incidentally, those programs should be equally available to our NCOs who show promise for advancement into critical technical or leadership roles.

I just don't see why we allow our folks to waste four critical years in their young lives which for the most part teaches them nothing that applies directly to their future careers. (And yes I do know that there are some who take very relevant programs. Those can and should continue - I think I've gone down this rabbit hole before in another thread)

🍻

'Because, Somalia' (and it seems that recent events have proven how well this and other similar 'improvements' have worked, I guess):

UP FROM THE ASHES: THE RE-PROFESSIONALIZATION OF THE CANADIAN FORCES AFTER THE SOMALIA AFFAIR*

"Young’s recommendations came down heavily in favour of almost totally revamping the education and professional development systems for both officers and senior non-commissioned officers. Officers were henceforth to be degree holders. The military education curriculum was to be revised, an independent professional military journal was to be established, an ombudsman – working outside the chain of command – was to be appointed, work was to begin on defining a Canadian Forces’ ethos, and the Canadian Forces Staff College was to broaden and to liberalize its educational offerings."

 

lenaitch

Sr. Member
Reaction score
409
Points
810
Sometimes priorities shift.

Our house before this one was on the shore of Lake Erie in the middle of wind power country. There was a big honking wind turbine exactly 598.5 metres from my front steps (as measured by Google Earth) yet almost half of my monthly power bill was "delivery" because we were in a rural community. Left there some seven years ago when things were idyllic but since then high water levels and wind have threatened the whole shoreline with disintegration (I strongly recommend that if you settle on a Lake don't make it a "Great Lake" but a little one with stable water levels).

We left there when things were good because as we were growing older we didn't want to live 12 kilometers from the closest supermarket nor 26 kilometres from the nearest clinic and hospital.

I greatly miss not stepping out on my deck in the morning with a cup of coffee looking out at nothing between me and Rochester except blue water and a blue sky but don't regret the move.



I agree with all of those and add one more. As I was finishing high school I was never worried about whether or not I would find a job. The question was always "which job do I want to take?" Mind you I was in one of the two grade 13 classes that graduated from my high school out of the twenty-two grade 9 classes that I started with. We had a lot of drop outs along the way in those days but they all got jobs too.

🍻

Yes they do. I left Toronto in '73 (work took me back from'85-'95 but we lived outside the city in the country). Most of my career was very small towns but since '95 we've lived mostly in the weeds. The closest thing to a neighbourhood is our current 2 acre subdivision lot. Lately we've been debating whether to move again to be closer to our daughter who is 3 hours away. As we get older, the idea of living 'back of beyond' has lost its lustre.

I'd rather look at water than own on it. If nothing else, it's generally cheaper.

Wondering if you were bothered by the turbines. I've heard people complain of headaches, etc. caused by low frequency humming, although I'm not sure that's been empirically established.

The problem with cities is, while they generate wealth, they are dependent in just about everyone way; such as food and energy production, waste disposal, construction materials, etc. The relationship would work better if they, mostly politicians and Young Urban Professionals, weren't so damned dismissive of the country around them.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,806
Points
1,040
'Because, Somalia' (and it seems that recent events have proven how well this and other similar 'improvements' have worked, I guess):

UP FROM THE ASHES: THE RE-PROFESSIONALIZATION OF THE CANADIAN FORCES AFTER THE SOMALIA AFFAIR*

"Young’s recommendations came down heavily in favour of almost totally revamping the education and professional development systems for both officers and senior non-commissioned officers. Officers were henceforth to be degree holders. The military education curriculum was to be revised, an independent professional military journal was to be established, an ombudsman – working outside the chain of command – was to be appointed, work was to begin on defining a Canadian Forces’ ethos, and the Canadian Forces Staff College was to broaden and to liberalize its educational offerings."


You do know that when MND Young "also commissioned four experts – three Canadian military historians, and one political scientist – to report within the same time frame on what they believed was wrong in the Canadian Forces, and what ought to be done about it." that one of those three military historians was David Bercuson who is the author of that article.

...
Wondering if you were bothered by the turbines. I've heard people complain of headaches, etc. caused by low frequency humming, although I'm not sure that's been empirically established.
...

Not at all in that way. That while area around Chatham is covered by them and there was a large battery of them just north of us. The one I mentioned was by far the closest to us and lay to the northwest do basically upwind of the prevailing winds there but it never caused any problems.

I don't even mind then esthetically either although many of my neighbours did. The only thing that bothered me about them was the ridiculous contracts which the provincial Liberal government at the time entered into with the contractors/operators which locks the energy produced in for an exceedingly high rate many times the average rate for power. That's going to cripple the Ontario economy, which was built on cheap power, in the long run.

🍻
 

Brad Sallows

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
960
Points
910
Cities are fragile. Imagine a pandemic with a fatality rate high enough to dissuade truck drivers from doing their jobs.
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
703
Points
1,060
'Because, Somalia' (and it seems that recent events have proven how well this and other similar 'improvements' have worked, I guess):

UP FROM THE ASHES: THE RE-PROFESSIONALIZATION OF THE CANADIAN FORCES AFTER THE SOMALIA AFFAIR*

"Young’s recommendations came down heavily in favour of almost totally revamping the education and professional development systems for both officers and senior non-commissioned officers. Officers were henceforth to be degree holders. The military education curriculum was to be revised, an independent professional military journal was to be established, an ombudsman – working outside the chain of command – was to be appointed, work was to begin on defining a Canadian Forces’ ethos, and the Canadian Forces Staff College was to broaden and to liberalize its educational offerings."

So officers had to go to Seminary first?

As I've said before all western universities started as seminaries, protestant and catholic. Dogma is in their DNA.

To be an officer one must be able to recite the catechism?
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,806
Points
1,040
I really must proof read my typing better before pressing "post"
So officers had to go to Seminary first?

As I've said before all western universities started as seminaries, protestant and catholic. Dogma is in their DNA.

To be an officer one must be able to recite the catechism?

I'm with you on that. The character of the dogma has changed quite a bit since then but for much of it, it's still dogma.

I always thought when I read the provision written in 1996 that we a "remarkably ill-educated officer corps, surely one of the worst in the Western world" that this was an indictment of the public education system which over some twelve years of forming young minds seemed to have failed miserably. How much "education" would be enough for the task? Why arbitrarily another four years at a university with absolutely no particular criteria as to what needed to be studied or mastered?

It made no sense to me then and it still doesn't.

On the other hand, that ship has sailed.

🍻
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Relic
Reaction score
4,338
Points
1,060
I really must proof read my typing better before pressing "post"


I'm with you on that. The character of the dogma has changed quite a bit since then but for much of it, it's still dogma.

I always thought when I read the provision written in 1996 that we a "remarkably ill-educated officer corps, surely one of the worst in the Western world" that this was an indictment of the public education system which over some twelve years of forming young minds seemed to have failed miserably. How much "education" would be enough for the task? Why arbitrarily another four years at a university with absolutely no particular criteria as to what needed to be studied or mastered?

It made no sense to me then and it still doesn't.

On the other hand, that ship has sailed.

🍻


Oh, you have an MBA? I guess I'll have to show you how to do it :)

 
Top