The Merged Thread on Gay/ Homosexual Topics and the CF.

[Takeniteasy]

This emphasises my point, and brings forth the important message that what we say isn't as important as what people think we say.

Technoviking, I am not sure I am understanding your point,  Are you saying to be careful what you say or "write down" because people may interpret what you say or "write down" in a negative/positive way?  That is how we communicate, it is not only the words but body language, context, environment and other variables that come into play when interpreting what we see,hear or feel...

 

[vonGarvin]

Technoviking, I am not sure I am understanding your point,  Are you saying to be careful what you say or "write down" because people may interpret what you say or "write down" in a negative/positive way?  That is how we communicate, it is not only the words but body language, context, environment and other variables that come into play when interpreting what we see,hear or feel...

My point is that when people talk to others (in any medium), they ought to be careful that what they say is understood in the manner in which its intended.  In short, know what you want to say, and then say it.  That's all.

 

[vonGarvin]

And if you say something that could be misinterpreted, then it probably will be.  That's all. 

 

[Takeniteasy]

My point is that when people talk to others (in any medium), they ought to be careful that what they say is understood in the manner in which its intended.  In short, know what you want to say, and then say it.  That's all.

I agree,  and in this context it is only one part of the story.  The short riddle nature of this note caused varied reactions (mine being the most important and the focus) another reaction  had someone use the words "Death Threat". When I heard this I thought that someone would not just use those words without first understanding the situation or knowing of other information that I did not have access to... the position of the person saying those words also plays a role in how a subordinate will react as well....

The CBC interview was edited and the part that people did not see was how I was explaining how someone could interpret the note as a "Death Threat" (were they thinking in Canadian metric terms and -2 two would convert to 6 feet under, I was trying to understand how someone would come to that conclusion.. aside from my own personal feelings and reactions.) again I asked "was my personal safety at risk??" And that question was reasonable in that situation and environment and I was the one who had to endure that for the remaining two months at KAF... ( and yes the question to send me home early was asked by myself first before the COC addressed it!!)

 

[ballz]

Yes, they are, because apparently that's the crux of the issue.  The original assertion was that the -2 was referring to six feet under which referred to him being threatened with death.  The counter to that was it was a stretch to assume that it referred to an obscure nautical reference.

I didn't see that crux anywhere in the article or mentioned as a reason to why the investigation couldn't be completed, etc. It seems to me that the issue of whether or not it was meant to be a threat is an issue that only exists in this thread. That makes me wonder if it's something worth debating or not, because given the man's accomplishments and character I will choose to trust his assessment from a much better vantage point than ours.

The bigger issue at hand that I see is that a full investigation "couldn't be completed," and exactly how the policy was changed (which the article doesn't even mention.... fantastic journalism.) to correct the old policy's shortcomings. I look forward to updates on the grievance process if WO (Ret'd) McLean decides to keep us updated.

 

[jollyjacktar]

And if you say something that could be misinterpreted, then it probably will be.  That's all.

You've been talking to my wife, obviously. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

-SAR tech of the year
-still holding the two fastest times for the Petawawa Ironman,
-being five-time Canadian Ultra Running champion, running 100 miles (160 kilometres) in the Yukon in -30o weather while pulling a 50 pound (23 kilogram) survival toboggan

I'm surprised you didn't leave them a note back saying "Bring it on pu**y".

 

[Takeniteasy]

I'm surprised you didn't leave them a note back saying "Bring it on pu**y".

Depending on how you look at it I have left them a note, I just wont go to their level of a  :slapfight: to get my point across.  I prefer to respond with integrity and professionalism. After all it is not just about me.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Depending on how you look at it I have left them a note, I just wont go to their level of a  :slapfight: to get my point across.  I prefer to respond with integrity and professionalism. After all it is not just about me.

You're a better (and tougher) man than me.

That said I'm going to take that Ironman fastest time away from you

 

[Cansky]

http://www.cbc.ca/edmontonam/2013/06/06/gay-pride-flag/


Tomorrow morning Friday June 7 2013, the gay pride flag will be raised at CFB Edmonton.  It is believed to be the first time this has occurred on a military base in North America. Although their may be some who dislike this.  It is proof of our military's inclusions of all Canadians.  No matter gender, race or sexual orientation all can serve.  MWO McDougall is a friend and co-worker well done to him for organizing this event.

 

[rampage800]

Sorry Kirsten but having a little trouble comprehending what raising a Gay Pride flag on the base actually does. IMO its opening a can of worms, where does it stop, every ethnic minority will want their flag raised on a Canadian Forces Base because now a precedence has been set. I have no problem whatsoever with these groups but I'm pretty sure the Canadian Flag by itself is already all encompassing of race, gender and sexual orientation.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sythen]

the Canadian Flag by itself is already all encompassing of race, gender and sexual orientation.

Just my opinion.

An opinion I am in complete agreement with.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Raising the rainbow flag is a symbol to those oppressed that the CF is accepting of them now and in a large public way.

 

[Cansky]

Yes I agree that the Canadian Flag is and should be all inclusive but when we still raise the Quebec flag for St Jean Baptiste day, Aboriginal Flag etc why not the Gay pride flag too.  I welcome the day that we celebrate all Canadians as Canadians but that is not what happens today.  We still look at all minorities as individual groups since there is international womens day etc.  I think by raising this flag its not only Canada that benefits but maybe we as a nation are influencing other countries (IE USA) to change as well.

 

[George Wallace]

Sorry Kirsten but having a little trouble comprehending what raising a Gay Pride flag on the base actually does. IMO its opening a can of worms, where does it stop, every ethnic minority will want their flag raised on a Canadian Forces Base because now a precedence has been set. I have no problem whatsoever with these groups but I'm pretty sure the Canadian Flag by itself is already all encompassing of race, gender and sexual orientation.

Just my opinion.

So true.  Do we now have to raise the "Warrior Flag" in recognition of our Native members?  Will there ever be an end to the silly PC'ness?

I know.  A silly question.  Of course there won't.

[edit to add]

Yes I agree that the Canadian Flag is and should be all inclusive but when we still raise the Quebec flag for St Jean Baptiste day, Aboriginal Flag etc.

Guess that answers that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

  It is proof of our military's inclusions of all Canadians.  No matter gender, race or sexual orientation all can serve. 

I don't see how it's proof.    That gay men and women (and those in between) are allowed to serve in the CF openly is proof of our military's inclusion of all Canadians.

I guess it could be symbolic, if I was in CFB Edmonton I'd just be thinking damn I hope I don't have to stand on some kind of parade and listen to speeches.

 

[Tank Troll]

:goodpost:

Ditto on that thought

Rampage 800, ObedientiaZelum mil points on the way

 

[Haggis]

Do we now have to raise the "Warrior Flag" in recognition of our Native members?

The Warrior Society - and it's flag - is not representative of all First Nations peoples.  Just a small minority of , um, "activists". 

Will there ever be an end to the silly PC'ness?

:rofl:

Even though it's a rhetorical question, it's still funny.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... That gay men and women (and those in between) are allowed to serve in the CF openly is proof of our military's inclusion of all Canadians.

You're right, but it's one thing to BE inclusive, and another to be SEEN TO BE inclusive - people who are in the military know how gay men/women are treated in the CF, but how many gay man/women among the general public know how they're treated?  The CF knowing something is the case =/= the public knowing. 

I guess it could be symbolic, if I was in CFB Edmonton I'd just be thinking damn I hope I don't have to stand on some kind of parade and listen to speeches.

Good one.

 

[George Wallace]

Years ago, after they had brought SHARP training into being, they came out with a second type of training that we all had to do.  It was called "DIFFERENTIAL Training" and it was about how we were all 'different'; we were "X's" and "Y's".  At the end of the Death by PowerPoint and films, we all just looked at each other and wondered how stupid that all was.  Instead of teaching us how different we were, how divisive it was, it should have concentrated on how much the same we were.  We all wore green and were members of a proud unit.  We were all Canadians serving in the Canadian Armed Forces.  We were a "TEAM", not individuals. 

Needless to say, not too many people have heard of this training or care to remember it.