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The Khadr Thread

Interesting tie in to another case:

http://ezralevant.com/2009/01/charles-adler-show-today.html

Charles Adler Show today
By Ezra Levant on January 20, 2009 12:43 PM | Permalink | Comments (12) | Trackback

I'll be on Charles Adler's national radio show today at 4 p.m. ET, 2 p.m. MT, to talk about Omar Khadr's statement that Maher Arar was indeed at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan.
I've just re-read Kevin Steel's story in the Western Standard. It's amazing reading. Here are some excerpts:

The commission, headed by Justice Dennis O'Connor, ran for two-and-a-half years and cost taxpayers $23 million. Yet in all that time and for all that money, no medical evidence was presented that demonstrated Arar had been physically tortured. No doctor testified. A psychiatrist did testify about the psychological effects of torture, but on physical torture, none.

Arar was never cross-examined on his allegations because he did not testify at the commission that bears his name.

...While he was imprisoned, Arar, who was closely monitored by the Syrians, made only one negative statement to the Canadian consular officials who visited him. On Aug. 14, 2003, he gave them the dimensions of his cell. "Being kept in a three-by-six-by-seven-foot cell obviously constitutes psychological torture, which is worse, and that was Maher's whole point; it's not about the beatings, it's, 'I can't survive living in this cell another day,'" says Pither. (David Milgaard spent 22 years in a Canadian jail after being wrongfully convicted of murder. He received $10 million for his wasted years, slightly less than Arar got for his ten months.)

...And though the Arar commission went out of its way to stress that Arar is innocent, it also underplayed facts that demonstrated why Canadian police were suspicious of him back in 2001--his frenetic cross-border travel, for instance, and his residence in Framingham, Mass., are barely mentioned in the 1,200-page final report or in the 12,000-plus pages of testimony.




…in his Nov. 4, 2004, statement to the press, Arar told of being whipped with a two-inch-thick electrical cable. "They hit me with it everywhere on my body. They mostly aimed for my palms, but sometimes missed and hit my wrists; they were sore and red for three weeks," Arar states. Arar alleges his interrogators also hit him on his hips and lower back. "They used the cable on the second and third day, and after that mostly beat me with their hands, hitting me in the stomach and on the back of my neck, and slapping me on the face. Where they hit me with the cables, my skin turned blue for two or three weeks, but there was no bleeding," Arar stated. According to his own timeline, these horrors occurred between Oct. 11 and Oct. 16, 2002.

Yet the entire time he was in the Syrian prison, the Canadian officials who visited with Arar saw no signs of physical abuse. As for his condition when he got out, one Canadian eyewitness-- speaking to the Western Standard on condition of anonymity--who saw Arar in Syria only moments after his release from jail, put it this way: "If you call not being able to shower for 10 months torture, then I guess he was tortured. But from what I saw, he didn't look like he had been tortured."

Arar received a total of nine consular visits during his 10-month ordeal. The first of these was only one week after the alleged beatings stopped, so that would have been well before Arar, in his own words, says his injuries healed. On Oct. 23, 2002, Leo Martel, an experienced consular official, met with Arar. The diplomat described the visit in a note to his superiors written immediately afterward. The Syrians were present at all times and obligated everyone to speak in Arabic. He reported that Arar walked normally; the two men shook hands and Martel described the handshake as "normal" and stated that Arar did not withdraw his hand. The meeting lasted a half-hour. Martel wrote that Arar "looked like a frightened person," yet appeared otherwise healthy, but added, "Of course, it is difficult to assess." He saw no bruising. The commission report states, "Mr. Martel saw no apparent signs of sore or red wrists or palms, and no blue skin around Mr. Arar's face or neck."

Martel would visit Arar eight more times, sometimes alone, sometimes in the company of others. All his consular reports were made public at the Arar commission. No signs of physical abuse were ever observed. Even after Arar was released, he did not speak of beatings. On the plane returning to Canada, when Martel asked Arar about physical torture, all he would say was, "They have other means.

John Thompson, president of the Mackenzie Institute and an expert on terrorism, has met people who have been tortured in exactly the same way that Arar alleges. To him, Arar's account sounds fabricated. "If you're being whipped, there are permanent marks. A cable like that would leave scars, it would split the skin. Also, if you were being beaten around the hands with it, it would break your fingers. That's what these things do," he says. Ten years ago, he met an Iraqi who had been beaten with a two-inch electrical cable. "He lifted up his shirt and showed me the welter of scars on his back, and then pulled his arm out of his sleeve and there were marks on the upper arm. Whipping leaves some horrific scars."

…Unfortunately, torture allegations are quite common. Even the 18 accused terrorists who were arrested in Ontario last summer on charges of plotting to blow up the CBC and CN Tower and behead the prime minister claimed they were tortured at the Maplehurst Detention Centre. Such accusations have become standard fare; when training its recruits, al Qaeda teaches them to make a claim of torture as soon as they are put before a magistrate, or the media. And refugees have been making claims of torture all over the world for eons. In order to sort the real charges from the exaggerations or lies, in 1999, the United Nations created the Manual on the Effective Investigation and Documentation of Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, otherwise known as the Istanbul Protocol. Its 84 pages are full of detailed instructions. Nowhere, in the whole of the Arar story--in mountains of press clips, in Arar's lawsuits, in the O'Connor commission itself--is the Istanbul Protocol mentioned. Specifically, there is no reference to it in the Toope Report, and that might seem strange because, as the commission's press release made everyone aware, Toope has experience with the UN. Toope, now president of the University of British Columbia, did not return a request for an interview.

… Arar and his wife, Monia Mazigh, an economics professor and one-time candidate for the NDP, have said on several occasions that he has never been to Afghanistan and never had any desire to go there. Like the torture claims, this statement has gone unchallenged. At one point, while Arar was incarcerated and after the confession, Canada's Foreign Affairs department contacted the Arar family in order to obtain any documentation establishing Maher's whereabouts that year. They produced none. And it's not like the RCMP or CSIS were incapable of finding information; early in the RCMP investigation they turned up a gun permit Arar obtained in 1992. In fact, there was never any evidence presented at the Arar commission as to his whereabouts in that year. Instead, there were lengthy discussions downplaying any significance attached to being in Afghanistan at that time. In his final report, O'Connor skirts the whole issue and instead presents a chapter titled "Background Information on the Afghanistan Camps," in which the reader is treated to a little history primer, the conclusion of which can be summarized as: just because someone might have been at a terrorist camp in Afghanistan in 1993, doesn't necessarily mean they were a terrorist.


I really have just one question left: will Canadian taxpayers be getting our $10.5 million back?
 
Thucydides said:
Interesting tie in to another case:
http://ezralevant.com/2009/01/charles-adler-show-today.html
Might sound interesting Except..... they have such a dubious pedigree that they might just as well be a faerie tail
 
just because someone might have been at a terrorist camp in Afghanistan in 1993, doesn't necessarily mean they were a terrorist.

What kind of dumb a** wrote this?
 
NL_engineer said:
What kind of dumb a** wrote this?

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers, and swims on the surface of water, allbeit happliy at that, its a duck, but not in the eyes of the author of that quote.

Very frustrating.

Cheers,

Wes

 
And somewhere out there, a Medic's family deserves justice for thier son

Edited to ad an article I've found

Kitchener Waterloo Record Thurs; Jan 22, 2009 Reproduced in accordance with fairdealings.
article link: http://news.therecord.com/article/475370

Obama halts Khadr trial
Brennan Linsley, The Associated Press

GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA

A tiny crack appeared in Ottawa's long-standing reluctance to bring Omar Khadr home yesterday after a military judge called a 120-day halt to the Guantanamo Bay prisoner's war-crimes trial at the behest of U.S. President Barack Obama.

And, a senior Obama aide tells The Associated Press that Obama plans to sign an executive order today to close the Guantanamo Bay detention centre within a year and halt military trials of terror suspects held there.

Obama, his presidency just hours old, ordered prosecutors to request the hiatus late Tuesday in order to allow for time to review the case of Khadr and 244 other detainees held at this infamous prison, according to prosecution documents.

That move prompted signals from Defence Minister Peter MacKay that the federal Conservative government would take Obama's cue and re-examine its oft-repeated position that due process in the U.S. should be allowed to run its course.

"Everyone involved in these cases will be reassessing their positions,'' MacKay said in Ottawa.

That appeared to bring out Kory Teneycke, a spokesperson for Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who reiterated the government's more familiar message: Khadr faces serious charges and the U.S. process must run its course.

"We are just not going to get into hypotheticals around different scenarios,'' Teneycke said.

"We'll simply wait and see what comes forward from the United States around this issue. We'll address other questions if and when they arise.''

Khadr's defence, which had earlier pushed hard for the charges to be stayed, did not oppose yesterday's motion.

"The practical effect of this ruling is to pronounce this military process dead,'' Lt.-Cmdr. Bill Kuebler, Khadr's lawyer, said minutes after the judge, Col. Patrick Parrish, granted the continuance in a single-sentence ruling.

Reached in Toronto, Khadr's older sister expressed mixed feelings at the news.

"I'm glad my brother is not going to trial, but I really would have preferred he was coming home, and he's not,'' Zaynab Khadr said in an interview. "He has been there for six years. Delaying justice is not justice at all.''

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff called on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government to take the necessary steps to bring Khadr back to Canada.

"I don't pronounce on his innocence or guilt, I just think enough is enough,'' Ignatieff said in Montreal. "I want to make it clear -- I don't have an ounce of anti-Americanism in my blood. I have great respect for the constitutional and legal traditions of the United States of America, but I think Guantanamo has been a disgrace to those traditions.''

In addition to Khadr's trial, Obama's order also resulted in a temporary halt to the proceedings for the five accused co-conspirators in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Family members of 9/11 victims, gathered in Guantanamo to watch the proceedings, were outraged.

"Mr. Obama has offered up the lives of almost 3,000 Americans on the . . . altar of political correctness,'' said an angry Don Arias, whose brother Adam died in the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center.

The options now open to Obama, who during his election campaign promised to shut down Guantanamo Bay and who has since signalled doing so would be among his first priorities, include attempting to try the detainees in a U.S. federal or military court.

He could also establish a special terrorist court, although most observers consider that unlikely, in part because Democrats in Congress oppose such a move.

Detainees not considered dangerous could be sent back home.

The Toronto-born Khadr, 22, is charged under an internationally condemned military commissions process with killing an American soldier in violation of the rules of war.

It is alleged he tossed the hand grenade that killed Sgt. Chris Speer following a four-hour firefight near Khost, Afghanistan, in July 2002, when he was just 15.

Khadr is the lone westerner still held at Guantanamo, but Harper has steadfastly refused to get involved, saying the proceedings here had to run their course.

Harper can no longer "hide behind'' that argument, Kuebler said.

The defence had wanted all charges stayed against Khadr and the other detainees, but Kuebler said he'll settle for the suspension, which lasts until May 20, 2009, provided it leads to serious discussions about getting Khadr home.

"He is anxious, he is nervous, he doesn't quite know what is going to happen -- none of us does,'' Kuebler said of his client.

Guantanamo Executive Order

(Draft, dated January XX, 2009)

Draft says: "In view of the significant concerns raised by these detentions, both within the United States and internationally, prompt and appropriate disposition of the individuals currently detained at Guantanamo and closure of the facility would further the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice.''

Applies to: 245 men at Guantanamo.

What could happen next: 60 to 120 Guantanamo prisoners may be considered low-threat detainees and transferred to other countries, either for rehabilitation or release. Other detainees could be imprisoned in their home countries. The 120-day suspension could be extended indefinitely if the review concludes that current military trial system should end. If that happens, the cases likely will be heard by federal courts under long-standing military or civilian criminal law.
 
Proudnurse,

The medic’s family deserves justice for their son… certainly

I agree that the family should.  However, let’s put things into proper perspective.  The medic was with troops who were conducting an assault onto an enemy defensive position.  He knowingly did go into harms way with his comrades & was just as likely to have gotten shot dead or blown up by an IED while moving forward.  It is not as if the medics were in a separate group from the US soldiers who fought that day – they were shoulder to shoulder with the bayonets throughout a four (4) hour firefight & anyone shooting at the soldiers would be shooting at the medic.

If this had been a conventional war with two uniformed armies facing off & one medic had gotten killed by accident (or intent) during a battle – the enemy soldier would have been disarmed & detained…. eventually to be released – returned to his homeland.

Has the US proceeded with the arrest, detention, trial and imprisonment of all other combatants who have fought them between 2001 and 2009?  The US has released hundreds of these detainees over the last nine (9) years.  Many of them very dangerous combatants who have returned to the field – killing others while possibly getting themselves killed…

So why have they stubbornly hung onto 15 year old Omar Khadr for 6-7 years?

- Because he was born a national of a Western Country?
- Because he is the son of an AQ leader?
- Because he was an “illegal combatant” – a foreign national found alongside AQ & TB illegal combatants?
- Because he was a child soldier?
- Because he killed a Medic with a grenade tossed over a wall – a device used against a group of soldiers?
 
geo said:
So why have they stubbornly hung onto 15 year old Omar Khadr for 6-7 years?

- Because he was born a national of a Western Country?
- Because he is the son of an AQ leader?
- Because he was an “illegal combatant” – a foreign national found alongside AQ & TB illegal combatants?
- Because he was a child soldier?
- Because he killed a Medic with a grenade tossed over a wall – a device used against a group of soldiers?
All of the above; while I respect the democratic processes and the new POTUS's decision, I feel very little sympathy for the young Khadr and hope he will never be returned to a Canadian neighborhood.
 
Jungle said:
All of the above; while I respect the democratic processes and the new POTUS's decision, I feel very little sympathy for the young Khadr and hope he will never be returned to a Canadian neighborhood.
Although I feel the same way about his whole family, at least in Canada we will be able to keep tabs on him and not join Al-queda like most of the other freed detainees sent back to Saudi, Yemen, Pak, etc.

cheers,
Frank
 
He gave up any claim to Canadian citizenship and protection of the Cdn gov when he joined Al-Queda and killed a American soldier.

  The only reason he should go to Canada is to be hung for treason. 

Some of these people are cancer, and there is nothing that can be done but kill them.
 
PanaEng said:
Although I feel the same way about his whole family, at least in Canada we will be able to keep tabs on him and not join Al-queda like most of the other freed detainees sent back to Saudi, Yemen, Pak, etc.

cheers,
Frank

You're kidding, right Frank?
 
recceguy said:
You're kidding, right Frank?
Actually, not this time. There have been many reports of recently released detainees joining back with Al-queda in different places - maybe they are being tracked, I don't know. If released back in Canada, CSIS or the RCMP could keep an eye on him and the people he contacts. We don't have many assets overseas that could do that.
 
Oh, I have no doubt they are rejoining their former comrades. I was more sceptical of us being able to keep an eye on Khadr. Unless he's granted 'high priority target' status, we don't have the resources to watch him once he walks out his front door. We can't even keep track of identified illegals in this country.
 
Yup, he will rejoin only this time he will be collecting welfare while he's doing it....
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Yup, he will rejoin only this time he will be collecting welfare while he's doing it....
....and likely a medical pension to boot.
 
TCBF said:
- At least the kid had the balls to put his *** on the line for what he believed in.  I'll take him anyday over the Limosine-Fedayeen who bad-mouth Canada while selling drugs in Toronto but wouldn't dare go toe-to-toe with NATO in the sandbox.
I wouldn't even give him that much credit. He was there because his dad and family were there. He was brainwashed into believing all that crap they believe in - that's all he knew an didn't have a choice but to be there. There comes a time when a person should "know better" and make the right decisions but without the right moral/value base how could anyone make the right decision? Their indoctrination makes them refuse any other ideas than those of their religious leaders - but that does not excuse them.

cheers,
Frank
 
PanaEng said:
Actually, not this time. There have been many reports of recently released detainees joining back with Al-queda in different places - maybe they are being tracked, I don't know. If released back in Canada, CSIS or the RCMP could keep an eye on him and the people he contacts. We don't have many assets overseas that could do that.


;D  I really don't think CSIS or the RCMP are going to track him any better than they have others in the past.  Even in the US, tracking disillusioned youth is next to impossible.  Be they American or Canadian, if they become disillusioned or brainwashed and secetly desire to run off and join a fanatical or radical regime; they usually are able to do so "under the radar" and are only discovered after they are long gone.
 
PanaEng said:
Actually, not this time. There have been many reports of recently released detainees joining back with Al-queda in different places - maybe they are being tracked, I don't know. If released back in Canada, CSIS or the RCMP could keep an eye on him and the people he contacts. We don't have many assets overseas that could do that.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-detainee24-2009jan24,0,4983174.story

Saudi freed from Guantanamo rejoins Al Qaeda
Associated Press
January 24, 2009

CAIRO, Egypt -- A released Guantanamo Bay terror detainee's re-emergence as an al-Qaida commander in Yemen highlights the difficulty President Barack Obama faces in his efforts to close the detention facility and decide the fates of U.S. captives.

A U.S. counterterror official confirmed Friday that Said Ali al-Shihri, who was jailed at Guantanamo for six years after his capture in Pakistan, has resurfaced as a leader of a Yemeni branch of al-Qaida.

"By Allah, imprisonment only increased our persistence in our principles for which we went out, did jihad for, and were imprisoned for," al-Shihri said in a video posted on a militant-leaning Web site Friday. It was the second time this week a reference to al-Shihri has shown up on the Web site. He was mentioned in an online magazine on Jan. 19 with a reference to his prisoner number at Guantanamo, 372.

Al-Shihri was released by the U.S. in 2007 to the Saudi government for rehabilitation. But this week a publication posted on the site said he is now the top deputy in "al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula," a Yemeni offshoot of the terror group headed by Osama bin Laden. The group has been implicated in several attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Yemen's capital Sana.

The second announcement from the site came the day after President Barack Obama signed an executive order directing the closure of the prison at the U.S. naval base in Cuba within a year.

That announcement, which carried the video post of al-Shihri, also included a second video of a second militant who identified himself as Abu al-Hareth Muhammad al-Oufi and claimed he had also been a Guantanamo captive, later released. Both videos were partially translated by SITE Intel Group, an organization that monitors extremist Web sites.

Al-Shihri is one of a small number of deputies in the Yemeni group, the U.S. counterterror official said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss sensitive intelligence. U.S. officials were not available to verify the claims of the second militant who appeared on video.

A key question facing Obama's new administration is what to do with the 245 prisoners still confined at Guantanamo. That means finding new detention facilities for hard-core prisoners while trying to determine which detainees are harmless enough to release.

According to the Pentagon, at least 18 former Guantanamo detainees have "returned to the fight" and 43 others are suspected of resuming terrorist activities. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell declined to provide the identity of the former detainees or say what their terrorist activities were.

It is unclear whether al-Shihri's name would be a new addition to that list of 61.

The militant Web site referred to al-Shihri under his terror nom de guerre, "Abu Sayyaf al-Shihri." The video refers to him as "Abu Sufyan al-Azdi al-Shahri."

An online magazine posted to the Internet site said al-Shihri is the group's second-in-command in Yemen. "He managed to leave the land of the two shrines (Saudi Arabia) and join his brothers in al-Qaida," the statement said.

Included in the site's material was a message to Yemen's populace from al-Qaida figure Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's top deputy.

According to Pentagon documents, al-Shihri was stopped at a Pakistani border crossing in December 2001 with injuries from an airstrike and recuperated at a hospital in Quetta for a month and a half. Within days of leaving the hospital, he became one of the first detainees sent to Guantanamo.

Al-Shihri allegedly traveled to Afghanistan two weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, provided money to other fighters and trained in urban warfare at a camp north of Kabul, Afghanistan, according to a summary of the evidence against him from U.S. military review panels at Guantanamo Bay.

An alleged travel coordinator for al-Qaida, he was also accused of meeting extremists in Mashad, Iran, and briefing them on how to enter Afghanistan, according to the Defense Department documents.

Al-Shihri, however, said he traveled to Iran to buy carpets for his store in Riyadh. He said he felt bin Laden had no business representing Islam, denied any links to terrorism and expressed interest in rejoining his family in Saudi Arabia.

Yemen is rapidly re-emerging as a terrorist battleground and potential base of operations for al-Qaida and is a main concern for U.S. counterterrorism officials. Al-Qaida in Yemen conducted an "unprecedented number of attacks" in 2008 and is likely to be a launching pad for attacks against Saudi Arabia, outgoing CIA Director Michael Hayden said in November.

The most recent attack, in September, killed 16 people. It followed a March mortar attack and two attacks against Yemen's presidential compound in late April.

The impoverished country on the southern tip of the Arabian peninsula has a weak central government and a powerful tribal system. That leaves large lawless areas open for terrorist training and operations.

Yemen was also the site of the 2000 USS Cole bombing that killed 17 American sailors. Seventeen suspects in the attack were arrested; 10 of them escaped Yemen's jails in 2003. One of the primary suspects in the attack, Jamal al-Badawi, escaped jail in 2004. He was taken back into custody last fall under pressure from the U.S. government.
 
recceguy said:
Oh, I have no doubt they are rejoining their former comrades. I was more sceptical of us being able to keep an eye on Khadr. Unless he's granted 'high priority target' status, we don't have the resources to watch him once he walks out his front door. We can't even keep track of identified illegals in this country.
One thing all of us on this board can agree on is that all our national security services (CSIS, RCMP and Military) need a bit more funding.
Illegal immigrants are pretty much at the bottom of the list and pretty much don't figure in the RCMP national agenda (provincial maybe, AFAIK). However, anything to do with national security/terrorism will be allocated some resources.

From George:
Even in the US, tracking disillusioned youth is next to impossible.  Be they American or Canadian, if they become disillusioned or brainwashed and secetly desire to run off and join a fanatical or radical regime; they usually are able to do so "under the radar" and are only discovered after they are long gone.
A lot of targets get tracked but less than 20% get the light of the media. The 'London/Toronto 17' comes to mind as a success in finding and countering one such group. Off course, without a lead it is hard to find them in the first place but when you have previous knowledge and details of the members then the work is 50% done.

cheers,
Frank
 
Most want Khadr to face justice in Canada, poll finds

OTTAWA  -- Most Canadians believe accused terrorist Omar Khadr should be
returned to Canada, but a healthy plurality want him to face justice here rather
than simply being turned loose, a new poll indicates.

Fifty-four per cent of respondents to the Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey
said Khadr, held by U.S. authorities for more than six years at Guantanamo Bay
on murder and other charges, should be brought back to Canada. That included
38 per cent who said he should face the courts in Canada, while 16 per cent
said he should be released and placed in a monitoring and rehabilitation program.
Twenty-nine per cent of those questioned said Khadr should be dealt with through
the U.S. court system.

The results were sharply split along party lines, reflecting a political debate that
has gone on for months. Some 44 per cent of Liberal supporters thought Khadr
should be tried in Canada while 24 per cent said rehabilitation in Canada would
be the best course. Only 20 per cent favoured trial in the United States. Strong
pluralities of NDP, Bloc Quebecois and Green party supporters also opted for trial
in Canada.

By contrast, 46 per cent of Conservative backers said Khadr should be tried
through the U.S. court system, while 31 per cent said he should return to Canada
for trial and only eight per cent favoured release under a rehabilitation program.

There were also regional variations in the results, with support for a Canadian
juridical process strongest in Atlantic Canada at 47 per cent, Ontario at 41 per
cent and Quebec at 40 per cent. Support for U.S. judicial proceedings was highest
in British Columbia at 38 per cent and Alberta at 32 per cent.

Jeff Walker, senior vice-president of Harris-Decima, summed up the bottom line:
"Canadians are clear that they believe Mr. Khadr should face a trial, but more
believe justice is best served if he faces it here (rather) than in the U.S."

Toronto-born Khadr, now 22, has been charged with murder and a variety of other
terrorism-related offences. The murder allegation arose from the death of a U.S.
soldier in a firefight in Afghanistan in 2002 when Khadr was 15. He had been slated
for trial before a military tribunal at Guantanamo, but those proceedings were put
on hold -- along with those of several other detainees -- by the new administration
of President Barack Obama.

Obama has also signed an order to close the much-criticized Guantanamo detention
facility within a year, but it remains to be seen what will happen to the prisoners held
there. Some may be released, while others could be kept in custody elsewhere and
tried under a yet-to-be-determined process.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said repeatedly his Tory government will wait for
the U.S. legal process to play out before considering repatriation for Khadr, the last
citizen of a western country held at Guantanamo.

Opposition critics say Ottawa should press for his return now and maintain he could
be tried in Canada under a process that reflects his juvenile status at the time of the
alleged offences.

There has been heated debate, however, about exactly what charges Khadr could face
in Canada and the chances of a conviction. Many legal experts say most of the evidence
compiled by U.S. authorities was obtained under duress, using sleep deprivation and
other abusive techniques, and wouldn't be admissible in a Canadian court.

Some of his supporters have advocated a rehabilitation program that would include
psychological and religious counselling and close monitoring to help him reintegrate
into Canadian society.

The telephone poll of just over 1,000 Canadians was conducted between Jan. 22 and 25.
The results are considered accurate within plus or minus 3.1 per cent, 19 times in 20.
 
Lets face the facts. Theres no way we can successfully rehabilitate radicals. Whether we throw them in prison for fifty years or let them go and try to keep tabs on them, because eventually they are going to go back to doing the same thing, trying to kill us.

You can't reason with these people, and I use the word "people" lightly. They have been radicalized to the point that nothing else matters to them but that dark warped mindset that everyone in the west is evil and must be destroyed by what ever means possible. This means  it won't stop until we kill every last one of them by any means possible.

Sometimes we have to use the very same tactics that the enemy uses to gain the edge and if that means bending a few rules or placing our western values in our back pockets to work towards that objective, so be it, because in the end its either us or them. The problem as I see it is western nations are not prepared to take the steps necessary with the exception of Israel to do the job properly. Politicians see it as political suicide. The UN is incapable of doing anything but muttering empty protests every time a terrorist group bombs or kills Innocent people and now the US is closing the only tool that at the very least kept some of these animals behind bars. 

Until someone stands up and fights fire with fire and is prepared to pull out all the stops to get the job done right, this will be a war that will pass from generation to generation and maybe just maybe a hundred years from now when both sides decide to stop and ask themselves why are we fighting, the irony of it all will be, no one will remember the reason...
 
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