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The Great Gun Control Debate

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TCBF said:
- A city gets the leadership it deserves.  No more - no less.

I tried.  :'(

A ban on ranges seems counterintuitive to me. I mean, with legal gun owners having the ability to practice their sport, they'll become more accurate, and thus, less innocents are likely to be killed when they go on gang drive-by missions.
 
Rest assured this will come back and haunt him everytime one of those gang bangers pulls a trigger.

I will also protest in my own little way. Unless sent on business, of which I have no control, I will avoid Moronto like the plague. No purchases from Moronto based corporations and will take the 407 from one side to the other without stopping. Unfortunately, it also means I won't be attending anymore Moronto meet & greets, as I refuse to give my hard earned cash to support any industry, restaurant or bar that supports a communist dictator like the so-called mayor and the slavish grovelling toe suckers they call a council.

www.torontothebad.com
 
recceguy said:
Rest assured this will come back and haunt him everytime one of those gang bangers pulls a trigger.

I will also protest in my own little way. Unless sent on business, of which I have no control, I will avoid Moronto like the plague. No purchases from Moronto based corporations and will take the 407 from one side to the other without stopping. Unfortunately, it also means I won't be attending anymore Moronto meet & greets, as I refuse to give my hard earned cash to support any industry, restaurant or bar that supports a communist dictator like the so-called mayor and the slavish grovelling toe suckers they call a council.

www.torontothebad.com

Recceguy, I've been doing that for years. I even pay the extra to fly out of Ottawa versus Toronto when I travel. And Toronto wonders why the rest of Canada can't stand them. :soldier:
 
I know most of this is US-Centric, but much of it applies in Canada as well.


40 Reasons to Ban Guns

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, Detroit & Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates,which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense - give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seat belts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.

14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.

15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons'', but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles'', because they are military weapons.

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting,government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's,anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations,variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self- defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA was a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self- protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands
 
No....someone decapitated on a bus in Manitoba. Just saw a portion with an eye witness making a statement.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080731/Manitoba_bus_080731/20080731?hub=TopStories


Man stabbed, decapitated on bus bound for Winnipeg


Updated Thu. Jul. 31 2008 8:17 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A young man travelling on a Greyhound bus bound for Winnipeg late Wednesday was stabbed to death and then decapitated in what appears to be a random act of violence, witnesses said.

According to passengers on the bus, the victim, between the ages of 18 to 20, was sleeping with his head against the window when the attack occurred.

"He was listening to music when suddenly the person next to him began to stab him in the neck with... a large butcher knife," CTV's Murray Oliver reported Thursday from Winnipeg, Man.

Garnet Caton, who was sitting in front of the victim, heard the commotion and turned around thinking he was going to witness a fight.

Caton told CTV News that once he realized what was going on he screamed: "Stop the bus, somebody's getting stabbed, everyone get the hell off."

The bus driver pulled over on a section of the east-bound Trans-Canada Highway -- about 15 kilometres west of Portage la Prairie, Man -- and many of the 37 passengers began to flee the bus.

Canton gathered a small group of people to go back and help the victim, said Oliver.

"They returned to the back of the bus to find that the person who was stabbing the person in the neck had now sawed off the head of (the victim)."

The man, with the head in one hand and the butcher knife in the other, then tried to attack the other passengers, said Oliver.

The group was able to exit the bus and slammed the door behind them.

The man then stabbed the door with his knife but was unable to break through and get off the bus. Eventually, he attempted to start up the bus to drive away but the operator had hit a switch, disabling the vehicle.

Oliver said a truck driver then arrived at the scene and handed out wrenches and crowbars to several men. The small group gathered around the door to the bus and prevented the man from exiting until police arrived.

RCMP eventually arrested the man after a standoff lasting several hours, said Oliver.

Witnesses said the suspect was tall, large and wearing sunglasses, even though it was dark.

The bus was travelling from Edmonton to Winnipeg.

The RCMP and Greyhound officials have confirmed that a "major incident" took place on the bus but few details have officially been released.
 
Man stabbed, decapitated on bus bound for Winnipeg

Updated Thu. Jul. 31 2008 8:17 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A young man travelling on a Greyhound bus bound for Winnipeg late Wednesday was stabbed to death and then decapitated in what appears to be a random act of violence, witnesses said.

According to passengers on the bus, the victim, between the ages of 18 to 20, was sleeping with his head against the window when the attack occurred.

"He was listening to music when suddenly the person next to him began to stab him in the neck with... a large butcher knife," CTV's Murray Oliver reported Thursday from Winnipeg, Man.

Garnet Caton, who was sitting in front of the victim, heard the commotion and turned around thinking he was going to witness a fight.

Caton told CTV News that once he realized what was going on he screamed: "Stop the bus, somebody's getting stabbed, everyone get the hell off."

The bus driver pulled over on a section of the east-bound Trans-Canada Highway -- about 15 kilometres west of Portage la Prairie, Man -- and many of the 37 passengers began to flee the bus.

Canton gathered a small group of people to go back and help the victim, said Oliver.

"They returned to the back of the bus to find that the person who was stabbing the person in the neck had now sawed off the head of (the victim)."

The man, with the head in one hand and the butcher knife in the other, then tried to attack the other passengers, said Oliver.

The group was able to exit the bus and slammed the door behind them.

The man then stabbed the door with his knife but was unable to break through and get off the bus. Eventually, he attempted to start up the bus to drive away but the operator had hit a switch, disabling the vehicle.

Oliver said a truck driver then arrived at the scene and handed out wrenches and crowbars to several men. The small group gathered around the door to the bus and prevented the man from exiting until police arrived.

RCMP eventually arrested the man after a standoff lasting several hours, said Oliver.

Witnesses said the suspect was tall, large and wearing sunglasses, even though it was dark.

The bus was travelling from Edmonton to Winnipeg.

The RCMP and Greyhound officials have confirmed that a "major incident" took place on the bus but few details have officially been released.

How unfortunate, and sad for the victim. A busload of people and the scumbag wasn't stopped.

I would say truly an argument for concealed carry. A .45 to the brainpan would be saving the courts and social system a lot of time and money.
 
Concealed Carry wouldn't have stopped this incident from happening.  It probably would have made the situation worse, as I highly doubt most people would be able to fire off anything close to accurate on a dark moving bus that was full of scared people. 

My guess based on what's been written in the MSM is that the attacker most likely has some form of severe mental illness - paranoid schizophrenia perhaps.  a truly terrible incident. 
 
Sheerin said:
Concealed Carry wouldn't have stopped this incident from happening.  It probably would have made the situation worse, as I highly doubt most people would be able to fire off anything close to accurate on a dark moving bus that was full of scared people. 

I disagree, but I've been trained to shoot in the dark, and at moving targets.  Now, had you of said might not of vice wouldn't, I would feel different. 


I agree, it is a guess.

Thoughts to the victim, family and friends of the victim. 

Unfortunately, we will likely be feeding the killer until he dies a natural death.  My tax dollars at work.  ::)
 
I disagree, but I've been trained to shoot in the dark, and at moving targets.  Now, had you of said might not of vice wouldn't, I would feel different.  

Just because you have training doesn't mean everyone does.  And just because some may have the training, it doesn't mean they're proficient.  

I agree, it is a guess.

It's a guess, and it's tainted by the fact that part of me doesn't want to think that a person is capable of doing such a heinous crime just for fun, or for a lark.  

 
recceguy said:
I would say truly an argument for concealed carry. A .45 to the brainpan would be saving the courts and social system a lot of time and money.

To bad the police didn't end it that way, as the guy will walk away claiming insanity  ::)
 
CSA 105 said:
If crazy man is intent on stabbing someone and not looking around, a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry weapon could easily walk up and terminate the situation - it's not a "shootout on a dark moving bus" - it's taking the steps and using correct tools correctly to save a life.

Even if he is looking around and sees an armed citizen approaching him, the life is saved and you have the case of one person bringing a knife to a gunfight.  Again - shooting from arm's length + about 8 inches, even in dim light, on a moving bus - not a big challenge.

Remember that those who CCW will all have some weapons and shooting training....

From the media reports it soundes like the attacker was sitting beside the victim and just attacked.  I highly doubt anyone in the bus knew this was going to happen and I highly doubt anyone would have been able to shoot the guy before the deed was done. 

 
Sheerin said:
Concealed Carry wouldn't might not have stopped this incident from happening.  It probably would have made the situation worse, as I highly doubt most people would be able to fire off anything close to accurate on a dark moving bus that was full of scared people. 

My guess based on what's been written in the MSM is that the attacker most likely has some form of severe mental illness - paranoid schizophrenia perhaps.  a truly terrible incident. 

Had this loser know there was a chance of a citizen ending his days, then and there, he may have rethought his intent. As much as the hoplophobes would like to impress on the uneducated, CCW is not just about mowing down innocent bystanders. It's as much about intimidation of the bad guy, in that he doesn't know who is armed and is willing to stand up to him. Bad guys are empowered by sheeple, but wolves seldom venture where there may be a sheep dog present. This guy held 36 people at bay until the cops eventually arrived. Had he kicked out the window of the bus straight away, to gain egress, the count could have been higher.
 
Sheerin said:
Concealed Carry wouldn't have stopped this incident from happening. 

No, but it may have changed the outcome. I will take armed with a chance over disarmed with none EVERY time, thanks.
 
Sheerin said:
From the media reports it soundes like the attacker was sitting beside the victim and just attacked.  I highly doubt anyone in the bus knew this was going to happen and I highly doubt anyone would have been able to shoot the guy before the deed was done. 

Speaking only for myself, I am SURE my reaction time would have given the poor soul a chance, and at the VERY minimum, a better chance than he had.  It definitely would have also made him NOT the only armed person on the vehicle.

"Something is better than nothing" in this case.  Nothing ended up where??

 
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