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The Great Gun Control Debate

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Old Ranger

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ArmyVern said:
Uhmmm, no she isn't, but the nanny is (I'm getting old).  ;)

Not with  that Avatar

How did you manage to miss recceguy's sarcasm in his post -- even I picked it up that time!!??  ;D

Sarcasm is the fuel for my soul, I was just overfilling the tank ::) Plus I'm one for a good chuckle...
 

TCBF

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recceguy said:
Maybe they'll finally start hitting and killing the other thug they are shooting at, instead of some kid 20 feet to their left, inside an apartment. The sideways gangsta grip will still work fine, probably better. And we won't have 115 grain, 9mm slugs travelling two blocks of a crowded neighborhood before hitting a kid on a swing.

- Good point.  Perhaps we need a "Gat Exchange" where pukes can change in their Wonder Nines and their Glock Foh-Tays for these .410s.  Chrome them.  Pimp them up with gold flake even.  Safer: buckshot bleeds off energy faster than a 180 grn JHP.
 

a_majoor

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More historical trivia to taunt gun control activists with:

After the final subjugation of Japan by the Tokugawa shogunate (1603–1867), one of the first acts was to ban firearms and confiscate all edged weapons not in the hands of the Shogun's Samurai. The result of these actions was a flowering of open hand martial arts and the development and refinement of techniques to turn ordinary items from farm tools to pipes (i.e. the type you smoke with) into deadly weapons. The Tonfa, Kama and Nunchaku are all items needed for harvesting and processing the rice crop.........

It is not the tool, it is the hand that wields the tool.
 

zipperhead_cop

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recceguy said:
The sideways gangsta grip will still work fine, probably better.

Especially with this emerging technology:

homeboysights-1.jpg
 

TCBF

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- Know why gangstas hold their guns sideways? "Cause dats de way dey comes in de box!"

;)
 

Fishbone Jones

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Brant Scott
Parliamentary Assistant
c/o Garry Breitkreuz, MP
House of Commons
Room 685, Confederation Building
Ottawa ON K1A 0A6
Phone: (613) 992-4394
Fax: (613) 992-8676
E-MAIL: breitg0@parl.gc.ca
www.garrybreitkreuz.com

-- --

NEWS RELEASE
February 28, 2008 For immediate release

Statistics Canada study confirms firearms and violent crime not linked

Ottawa – Saskatchewan M.P. Garry Breitkreuz says a new Statistics Canada
study proves that hunters and sport shooters have nothing in common with
violent criminals.

Breitkreuz started his fight against useless gun control laws in 1994 and
part of that fight has been to relentlessly expose the
truth about the relationship between violent crime and guns.

Last Wednesday, Statistics Canada released its study for 2006 entitled:
Firearms and Violent Crime (see link below).

It reported that firearms were used in only 2.4 percent of all violent crime
in Canada in 2006.

It also reported that handguns (which have required registration since 1934)
made up nearly two-thirds of all firearms used.

CanWest news summarized the Statistics Canada report this way: "In 2006,
three-quarters of all violent crime victims were attacked by people without
any weapons at all.

Knives, clubs and other blunt instruments were used against 9.2 per cent of
victims, while guns were used against only 2.4 percent.

Knives were used to commit more murders, robberies, sexual assaults and
assaults than guns."

"In December 2006, I released unpublished Statistics Canada tables showing
that of the total homicides committed between 1997 and 2005, only 2.27
percent were committed with a registered gun," explains Breitkreuz.

"Only 1.21 percent were committed with a firearm registered to the accused
murderer, and 2.14 percent were committed by a person that held a valid
firearms licence (see link below).

Obviously, law-abiding gun owners aren’t the problem and yet the Government
of Ontario and the City of Toronto want to ban the handguns owned by honest
citizens.

"Why is there a Liberal, NDP and Bloc preoccupation with guns owned by
citizens that aren’t the problem?" asks Breitkreuz.

"Remember that 102 of 108 handgun homicides (94 per cent) in 2006 were
committed with unregistered handguns or the registration status was unknown.
We need mandatory minimum sentences for using weapons in violent crimes.
Knife and club attacks occur at a rate almost four times higher than guns.

"That’s why the federal government introduced Bill C-2, our Tackling Violent
Crime Act," he adds.

"Statistics Canada tables also show that knives and clubs result in more
injuries than guns (see link below).

This study makes it obvious that we need all governments to focus on the
real problem of violent crime and especially target those criminals that use
any type of weapon in the commission of an offence."

-30-

Statistics Canada Study: Firearms and violent crime 2006
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/080220/d080220b.htm


December 7, 2006 - 5,194 homicides 9 years: Only 2.27% of guns were
registered
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breit.../2006/dec7.htm


March 3, 2005 – Liberals’ total focus on guns is misguided
http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breit...ss/guns136.htm

 

Fry

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Despite all of that, it's so sad that we're still in the current state of affairs. One stray bullet from a homeboy in Toronto and the whole country is in turmoil, targeting not the source (which  is of course the 'real' victim) but owners who fully comply with these current 'excuses' of laws.

While I don't condone any violent crimes, I certainly think that provinces where gun crime is almost non-existent, should be able to govern themselves at a provincial level... like the USA right now. Not only does it give people the option to move into an area where they can hunt or own certain firearms, but it doesn't punish the entire country with senseless laws.

This grandfathering crap has to come to an end too. Not allowing others to obtain any of the 12(x) licenses is just ridiculous. Furthermore only allowing full autos to be discharged legally at military ranges only is even more BS.

There should be no 'gun control'. There is no need for it. We need to control crime. It should be "Crime Control" not "Gun control". People need to be able to distinguish the two. It's deceiving and skewed facts and phrases that have sold the current pathetic state of firearms law in Canada today, including the registry. You can go to a poll online and read "Given the recent tragic mall shooting would you support a gun ban?". That question really makes the sheeple thing "well, shootings bad... ban guns". What they don't realize is that the poll is really pointless. It should have been worded "Given the recent tragic mall shooting, should there be a bigger crackdown on crime and gangs?". Or "Do you think a ban on law abiding owners will crackdown illegal gun crime"? The latter will not be used since it depicts the truth. Just boils my blood to hear call in shows and the media talking as if they know how it should be, when most of them have never held a firearm , let alone discharge a round. I just hope they don't try to grandfather RPALs and restricted firearms out of existance!

And to think they thought storing semi autos at the range shed would prevent them from getting stolen in your home!!  ::)
 

Old Ranger

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The first few pages of what I submitted to 2 Mayors offices today.
In responce to a "new" call for a ban of handguns.


April 7, 2008

To Members of Council,

Please review the attached information and proposed resolution to adopt.

My proposed resolution opposes the new call for a handgun ban resolution by the City of Toronto and as well as the Township of Galway-Cavendish and Harvey.

My concerns are the financial impact of $2 billion dollars to the taxpayers of Canada and the concern of increased violence within our communities as seen in the U.K. and Washington D.C.

There is already a handgun ban from criminal possession since 1934.

Page two is the proposed resolution rejecting the new ban.

Page three is the attachment summary.

Thank you for your consideration,

XXXX
XXXX
XXXX

Proposed Resolution
Opposing the Punishment
Of Law Abiding,
Tax paying,
Citizens of Canada.




April 07, 2008.

Proposed Resolution opposing the punishment of law abiding, tax paying citizens of Canada.

WHEREAS handguns do not have the sole purpose of killing people;

AND WHEREAS many lives are saved with the presence of handguns;

AND WHEREAS there is enough legislation for the regulations of acquisition, ownership, safe storage, transportation and use of handguns;

AND WHEREAS handguns have already been banned from criminal possession since 1934;

AND WHEREAS law abiding citizens and businesses should not be penalized for the actions of criminals;

AND WHEREAS this elected Council does not condone wasting an estimated $ 2 Billion that a handgun ban would cost Canadian tax payers;

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the County of Simcoe REJECT the proposed new ban of handguns from the Township of Galway-Cavendish & Harvey and from the City of Toronto;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this resolution be forwarded to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Premier Dalton McGuinty, Minister Stockwell Day, and to all Municipalities in the Province of Ontario for consideration and endorsement.



Attachment Summary:

Two handgun ban proposals,

Quick Facts list of key points for consideration,

Steps required for legally obtaining, transporting and storing a handgun,

Open letter from Olympic competitor,

Article: “Gun bans do not – and cannot- take contraband, unregistered firearms out of the hands of violent criminals. Anyone claiming otherwise is ideologically blind, indulging in politically cynical demagoguery, or deceived by ignorant, hysterical superstition and propaganda.”

Article:” The most recent tragic deaths in Vancouver and Toronto represent the product of shortcomings in crime control, not gun control. Our political leaders should have the good sense to respond accordingly, and avoid the temptation of knee-jerk populism.”

Article. From the 23 pages of what Police have to say about the Gun Registry.
“We have an ongoing gun crisis including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered, although we believe that more than half of them were smuggled into Canada from the United States. The firearms registry is long on philosophy and short on practical results considering the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” JULIAN FANTINO when he was The Toronto Chief of Police.


Thank you for your consideration,

XXXX

 

redleafjumper

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The resolution idea is a good one.  The NFA did this back in the 90's and is asking for people to do it again - please send the resolutions to the NFA office in Edmonton.

Cheers,

Redleafjumper


As you are aware there is a move by the anti-firearm folks to push for more bans and prohibitions on firearms, including handguns and semi-automatics.

Here is what you can do to counter those negative efforts.


1. Take the attached responsible use of firearms resolution to your local city hall and ask the city council to pass it.
2. Be prepared to speak to the points made in the resolution – there are ready sources for data and links at the www.nfa.ca web site.  In particular, Gary Breitkreuz’s reference material is of great use.
3. When the resolution is passed, ensure that the city council passing it sends a copy to Canada’s National Firearms Association, PO Box 52183, Edmonton, Alberta.
4. Be wary about our opponents trying to get opposing resolutions passed, or coming to speak against yours.  Be prepared to refute their claims in a polite and respectful way.

If you do this work, you will be making a big difference in protecting the right of the Canadian firearms people and our culture.  Let us know if you need any help.

Sean Penney
VP Communications
Canada’s National Firearms Association



Responsible use of Firearms Resolution

Whereas - Firearm use is deeply entrenched in Canadian history since the arrival of the first European explorers;

Whereas -  The first settlers depended on the firearm for both food and protection;

Whereas – In rural Canada, farmers, ranchers, trappers and others still depend on the firearm in their daily existence;

Whereas – Canada’s national shooting teams have made us proud at both the Olympics and other international competitions;

Whereas – Economically the business of all types of firearms and sports accessories accounts for billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of jobs in Canada;

Whereas – All provincial governments collect millions of dollars in revenue from the implementation of hunting seasons for wildlife management;

Whereas – Millions of Canadians belong to the recreational firearm community.  They consist of:  all Wildlife Organizations, Collectors, Ranchers, Hunters, Rifle Clubs, Handgun Clubs, Trap Clubs, Skeet Clubs, Junior Rifle Clubs, Sea, Army and Air Cadets, Black Powder Clubs, Biathlon Clubs, Hunter Safety Trainers, Wildlife Management Groups, the Olympic Shooting Organization and other Responsible Citizens;

Whereas – Canada’s National Firearms Association and all gun clubs in Canada promote the lawful, responsible, and safe use of all firearms both in the home and in the field;

Therefore, be it resolved that:

Moved by:  ______________________  Seconded by:_________________________

That we the: _________________________  of ______________________________

Support the principle that Canadians, now and in the future shall continue to enjoy the lawful, responsible and safe use of firearms.


Signed:    _______________________
      Mayor or Reeve


_______________________
City Clerk

Date:  _______________

 

Old Ranger

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Cool, I'll have to bring this one with me if I get called to council. I submitted to three different ones.
Also going to submitt OFAH media release to attach to it. OFAH.org
 

Fishbone Jones

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CILA - ALERT - CFOs Attack Reloading

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CILA - ALERT - ALERT

http://www.cila-ical.com/2008/04/CFO...egulation.html[/color]]http://www.cila-ical.com/2008/04/CFO...egulation.html

Chief Firearms Officers Attack Ammunition and Reloading

Following is a presentation made by Deputy Chief Firearms Officer Tony (A.J.) Cooper to the Chief Firearms Officers across Canada. You can clearly see the agenda towards increased, oppressive ammunition regulation. This is a "Must-Read" for all Canadian firearms owners. Download the PDF or PowerPoint documents below.

Please voice your displeasure by fax to 705-329-5623

This is an item that must be addressed at the upcoming CFO's Clubs and Ranges Seminar taking place in Orillia, Ontario April 26, 2008. Do not let your rights be further eroded by the gun-control bureaucracy. Send your fax right away!

* Note: This presentation was made without the knowledge or consultation of Natural Resources Canada - Explosives Branch, the Canadian government agency that currently regulates ammunition and reloading.

CFO's New Ammunition Regulations (PDF) http://www.cila-ical.com/2008/04/CFO_Ammunition_Regulation.pdf
CFO's New Ammunition Regulations (PowerPoint) http://www.cila-ical.com/2008/04/CFO_Ammunition_Regulation.ppt

A complete thread, on the subject, can be found here - http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235010  You likely have to register to read it.
 

The_Falcon

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Mayor Miller is at it again

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23150.aspx

Miller's Proposed Gun Ban Bylaw Gaining Attention At Queen's Park
Tuesday May 27, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff

Toronto Mayor David Miller is proposing a new bylaw that would make the warehousing of guns anywhere in the city, including sport shooting ranges used by Olympic athletes, illegal.

Miller says he's in favour of a report calling for recreational shooting ranges in the city to be shut down, stating, `nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets.'

The mayor was likely referring to the recent murder of John O'Keefe, an innocent bystander who was killed on Yonge St. The gun used in the crime turned out to be legally registered and the man accused of pulling the trigger was a member of a gun club in Gormley.

The mayor also wants to have the power to block gun manufacturers and wholesalers from opening new plants or warehouses.

His plans have irked the opposition at Queen's Park.

"The real issue here is the guns coming across the border and getting into the wrong hands," said Ontario P.C. leader John Tory.  "I just think that this kind of thing where you're taking people that are engaged in legal behaviour - it's an Olympic sport for heaven sake -  It's not like it's something where people are just doing it sort of in their backyards.  And I just think that they should be focused much more heavily with the federal government and everybody else, on the border issue."

Olympic sport shooter Avianna Chao, who trains at the CNRA gun club hidden in the rafters at Union Station, reacted to Miller's plan.

"I was absolutely shocked, it knocked the wind out of me," she admitted.

She also took offence to Miller's suggestion that guns used in sport shooting clubs lead to murders.

"I really don't understand how he can make such a leap because at shooting ranges and gun clubs that I've competed at or belonged to, I mean we teach discipline, we teach respect, we teach safe handling of firearms.

"I just cannot imagine how someone can make that connection. It's like making the connection between driving a car and running someone over.

"The people that you meet at shooting ranges, the large majority of them are professionals. There are.like four or five engineers on the Canadian national team, and I've met lawyers, doctors. It is an extremely civilized sport, and in order to get into a shooting club, you have to already have your possession and acquisition license."

The president of the Union Station club, Tom Bradbeer, insists the facility is safe and maintains there's never been a theft at the club.

"I think he's targeting the wrong group of people," he said, referring to Miller.  "He's taking the easy way I think. This is not going to work. We are law-abiding citizens."

Negative publicity turns gun clubs into 'secret societies'
 

zipperhead_cop

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Miller says he's in favour of a report calling for recreational shooting ranges in the city to be shut down, stating, `nobody can deny that hobby directly results in people being shot and killed on the streets.'

Because God knows how many innocent lives have been snuffed out by ski-by bi-athletes.  ::)
 

The_Falcon

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zipperhead_cop said:
Because God knows how many innocent lives have been snuffed out by ski-by bi-athletes.  ::)

So far since all this gun banning rhetoric has been bandied around by the Millerites only 1 of 100s the shootings/murders that have happen since miller took office, has been committed by a legal gun owner/hobbyist.  Which in their (millerites minds) tars the rest of 99.9% of legal gun owners, as unsafe yahoos. 
 

1feral1

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Sadly, many TO sheeple will follow this guy.

A guns free society is the PC thing to have these days

Gun free, meaning no guns for the law abiding citizens. This can and will happen, so take what he is doing seriously.
 

ENGINEERS WIFE

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Toronto boots gun clubsNew rules force 2 groups out of city-owned shooting ranges
By ANTONELLA ARTUSO, SUN MEDIA

Toronto Mayor David Miller is boasting his new gun crackdown will save lives, but his opponents suggest the anti-firearm measures will shoot blanks.

Miller opened his passionate plea for a city ban on new gun clubs and manufacturers yesterday by refering to the recent carnage on Toronto streets, including the shooting deaths of Oliver Martin and Dylan Ellis.

"Will it mean that fewer people are murdered on the streets of Toronto?" Miller asked. "Absolutely."

His proposal, which sailed through council on a 31-9 vote, means that the Scarborough Rifle Club at the Don Montgomery rec centre and CNRA Gun Club at Union Station will have to move from their city-owned digs.

"In a day when you can't bring a large tube of toothpaste on the plane with you, how could we possibly allow guns to wander through Union Station, the biggest transportation hub in Canada?" Miller asked.



Toronto's Sportmen's Show -- held each year at Exhibition Place -- might be an inadvertent victim of the city's no-promotion policy for firearms.

An amendment by Councillor Joe Pantalone to protect the show from the city's new rules failed to get through council.

Miller told reporters he wasn't sure if the annual hunting and fishing show would be caught in this net.

Councillor Adam Vaughan said the Sportsmen's Show promotes gun culture and should head north.

"Keep them out of my city. I don't want them anywhere near here," he said.

Bernard Becker, member of the CNRA Gun Club board of directors, said the councillors who supported the proposal showed a shocking ignorance of gun laws and gun clubs.

Members of the CNRA gun club, which includes Olympian Avianna Chao, will likely have to join other clubs, he said.

Target shooters will still carry their weapons through Union Station and on public transit, but will now have to travel farther to do it, he said.

Becker said it's frustrating to see the mayor and council trying to link gun crimes with gun clubs.

The changes endorsed by council yesterday will not have any impact on existing shooting ranges, except for the two clubs on city property, which must move. An existing Toronto gun manufacturer is also exempt from the ban.

Councillor Doug Holyday said this doesn't reduce the city gun count by one.

"It does no more than make a political statement from the city of Toronto to the public that we're doing something about guns," Holyday said.

 
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