The Great Gun Control Debate

[Zipper]

I have to ask as to that last article. Was it so porous and completely ineffective because of a combination of the fact that there were already millions of said weapons out there, there was a loop hole you could fire a 16 inch shell through, and the fact that law enforcement did not enforce the law? Its hard to say a law is on the books when everyone concerned ignores that it is there. Not to mention most crime is petty in nature and a handgun is far more effective.

If even one of those facts above changed, it would have been a different matter. But oh well, another waste of paper.

 

[TCBF]

Zipper, did you post on the wrong thread?

 

[Slim]

...which goes to show you that it is more fear than actual knowledge or logic driving much of the Gun Control crowd....

Yes...they tend not to let the truth get in the way of their "platform" very much.

Slim

 

[Nemo888]

The gun issue is very personal. My old Irish descendants left a place where they could not own land, hunting(poaching ye masters land) and owning a rifle was illegal. Then we moved to Canada. We owned land could hunt and grow our own food. We could also own guns. We were no longer serfs, we were men! Canada was also probably 80% rural.That was a long time ago. But some ideas live on after they may no longer useful.

  My experience with guns is as a soldier. I see guns as useful tools to kill people. I lived in Toronto for 7 years, worked in law enforcement. I was stabbed in the chest (chipped the sternum, a bone plate over the heart COOL), shot in the back with a pellet gun( Ouch! That hurt holy s*&t) and had a shotgun pointed at my head(stolen from a legal owner or as payment for drug debts, never did get to the bottom of it.) If guns were more available most likely I'd be dead. These events shaped my opinions. Opinions based on facts and experience. Just like all the opinions in this thread.

  Maybe we shouldn't take our opinions as beings absolute truths. Our experiences are merely anecdotal evidence. WE all have an axe to grind here. No objective observers.

 

[TCBF]

"No objective observers."

Or, perhaps we are all objective observers. 

A gun is a tool, wielded for good or evil.  Our society is changing, and it is becoming much more acceptable to blame objects rather than individuals. 


How will this end?  Who knows.

 

[Infanteer]

I see guns as useful tools to kill people. I lived in Toronto for 7 years, worked in law enforcement. I was stabbed in the chest (chipped the sternum, a bone plate over the heart COOL), shot in the back with a pellet gun( Ouch! That hurt holy s*&t) and had a shotgun pointed at my head(stolen from a legal owner or as payment for drug debts, never did get to the bottom of it.) If guns were more available most likely I'd be dead. These events shaped my opinions. Opinions based on facts and experience. Just like all the opinions in this thread.

Should knives be outlawed too?

 

[Gouki]

Nah just make knife control legislation to stop all those criminals and cooks from running around with knives, put cleavers in a restricted class, and have it take 3 months to get your non-restricted knife license.

 

[Nemo888]

I was trying to get some plutonium, you know for home protection. The amount of paperwork and questions was intolerable,...

  Where do you draw the line? Many things in society are limited, not because you are irresponsible but because the good simply outweighs the bad. Mandatory breathalyser stops are clearly unconstitutional, yet the clear majority of citizens support them. Are your rights the only ones that matter? Because you are strong morally does that mean the weak must be given temptation? I would love a Karl G for plinking in the backyard, that would be #$^@!# awesome. I'd get it legally for clearing brush and whatnot, lol.

  What do you think are reasonable gun laws? Why is it so important? Considering the majority of Canadians don't want anything to do with them?   Lets face it, if I am in Texas I am packing for sure. I like not owning one. Could there be some enlightened compromise? I have the uneasy feeling that rational debate on this has died on both sides. Its not like people in the Army are opinionated or anything,... :threat: :dontpanic:

 

[2 Cdo]

Nemo888, Imagine saying that you would gladly lock up anyone defending their home, property or loved ones from some piece of crap gang banging teen criminal. If I work hard for what I have am I not allowed to protect it, and try to prevent some arsehole from taking it?

If more people blew these little sh*t stains away when they break into their homes eventually the breakins would stop. The problem in this society is people like yourself who want to criminalize normal citizens while bending over backwards granting rights to criminals. Wake the f*ck up!

 

[Nemo888]

I geuss you don't remember all the guys the army recruited out of the jails back in the day. Alot turned out to be pretty good guys, you've unknowingly worked with some. Some people deserve a second chance. If you kill a guy over a dvd player I'll lock you up in a second.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

QUOTE,
I geuss you don't remember all the guys the army recruited out of the jails back in the day. Alot turned out to be pretty good guys, you've unknowingly worked with some. Some people deserve a second chance.[/i]


I was about to raise the BS flag, but instead I want to know just what kind of law enforcement you were actually in?
Because I sure don't know any that would make that statement since anyone in the biz would know that before they actually get to jail, most have already burned 7 or 8 chances........

 

[KevinB]

NEMO - You blame an inatimate item for what?  Who are you to say who should or should not have that tool. 

Despite the fact that automatic weapons are banned - other than benig frightfully cool to watch thay aren't anymore effective than semi-auto's or even bolt actions (with a skilled user) for taking down targets.

The unfortunate thing that gets glossed over is we already have laws against violence - does it really matter the item used? 

You want to kill a slew of people use a CAR. 


I might not shoot someone over a DVD - but IF I feel my family or I are in jeopardy from someone entering my home - TAP TAP.  911 "Hello" I just had to shoot an intruder.

Its not your job to lock someone up - thats the courts - last I looked it was to serve and protect, not to screw and oppress.

 

[TCBF]

"To Screw And Oppress."  I like that.  I bet it would even fit on a car door.  Can I use it?

 

[KevinB]

"To Screw And Oppress."   I like that.   I bet it would even fit on a car door.   Can I use it?

Yes, I will license it to you  ;D


I am going to play with photoshop next week, I need to get a good shot of a MP car first (- with my camera...  )

 

[Nemo888]

Worked for the movie companies, alarm monitoring and a property managment, all in TO. We had special constable status. Toronto was crazy in some areas, I even saw a murder. I quit not long after that. Regent Park or Jane/Finch were real holes.

 

[TCBF]

"Regent Park or Jane/Finch were real holes."

So, to keep peace and quiet in those 'hoods full of new Canadians, us old Canadians get our private property confiscated without compensation courtesy of thr Firearms Act?  I say, get back on the boat to all of them - the criminal ones, I mean.

 

[Nemo888]

Exactly, in those areas guns are only to kill people. You see the basic rural urban split. In those areas people llived in fear. I really couldn't care less  what guns people owned in rural areas.

 

[TCBF]

Difficulties arise, when people elected from those urban areas attempt to impose their ghetto values on the rest of the country.  "If it's good enough for T.O., its good enough for Kapuskasing."

Also, if I get posted to Toronto, and move into the projects, I should not be told to unload my fleet, merely because firearms ownership is a deemed privilege of only the homies.

Hey, isn't that a song by Roy Orbison? - " Only the Homies..."

 

[Nemo888]

And you are an anachronism. Intresting historically, but politically just a fringe extremist. Good for you though, extremeists often push the envelope and produce positive change. The absolute conviction that they are right gets a little irritating though. I also believe gun control legislation is ineffective and that a gun control registry is easily abused. But I would like that men who threaten their wives with a firearm get them at least temporarily confiscated. In a small town I lived near there was a certain plumber went nuts on his wife and threatened her with one of his rifles. His guns were then "stolen". Everyone in the town knew by who. He really couldn't handle the responsibility, and no one ever turned the culprit in. I don't know how to make large urban areas safer. IF rural people had some better ideas than restricting gun ownership and were eloquent I'm sure that would happen. Calling people names just makes you look like a crackpot. I just did it myself!

 

[Infanteer]

First, the "guns are tools/weapons" arguement has went on about 4 times in this thread (and has been soundly trounced), so go back and read some of the stuff before going into another spin cycle.

Second, knock off the name-calling - I'm locking this thread up for a bit and cleaning it up so everybody can cool down.