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The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

brihard

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If you bring a firearm to a protest, there is a near zero chance of nothing bad happening.
It’s an offense under S.89(1) of the Criminal Code. R v Lacombe, a 2004 case out of Alberta, establishes the best case for how it goes for you, and that still includes a criminal conviction, loss of your firearm, and presumably loss of your privileges of having any other firearms. 2004 ABPC 90 (CanLII) | R. v. Lacombe | CanLII

That was was a very particular set of facts wherein the offender behaved specifically so as to make his protest as safe as possible with a wrapped up firearm with bolt removed, and with advance warning to police. Try showing up to a protest carrying/wearing a firearm in any way where it’s at all accessible to you for use, and the best case will probably look like you getting several guns pointed at you while you’re proned out and arrested. You’ll be in custody for several hours, criminally charged, lose your guns, etc. Not a good day.

So, FWIW, not recommended.
 

Haggis

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What a Clusterf**K

Well, in reality all this does is revert the ATT process back to pre-Bill C42 (Common Sense Firearms laws) passed by the Conservatives. The big missing piece is that the Liberals were to have rolled out an app to make ATTs available 24/7 through a quick, easy and instant portal. That never happened. Maybe it will be developed by IBM in concert with the compensated confiscation (TM) plan. What's a few more million tacked on to that contract?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Came by email and letter. I should do an ATIP to see how much this is going to cost them in PY's


A change has recently come into force to the Firearms Act as part of Bill C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearms. The change has resulted in the removal of the following conditions related to the transport of restricted/prohibited firearms from your licence:

  • Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to a port of exit, in order to take them outside Canada and from a port of entry.
  • Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a gun show.
  • Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a business that holds a licence authorizing it to repair or appraise prohibited or restricted firearms.
  • Transport of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from any place a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer is located for verification, registration or disposal in accordance with the Firearms Act and Part III of the Criminal Code.
If you wish to transport your restricted/prohibited firearm for one of the above purposes, you must apply for an Authorization to Transport to your Chief Firearms Officer. To contact your Chief Firearms Officer, please call 1 800 731-4000.

All affected licence holders will be mailed a formal notification of the changes to the Authorizations to Transport, including your current updated licence conditions.
 

Eaglelord17

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Liberals have anounced they are going to be even harder on firearms owners with the following being in their platform. Ending Gun Violence | Liberal Party of Canada

'Our communities should be safe and peaceful places to live and raise children, but American-style gun violence is rising. 2019 saw the rate of firearm-related offences rise for the fifth straight year, and the homicide rate was the highest in a decade, with 40% of homicides involving firearms. That is why, in May 2020, we took action to put a ban on the use, sale, or import of assault weapons most used in mass shootings and implement a buyback program for owners.

At the same time, we are investing in prevention efforts and are providing $250 million directly to municipalities and Indigenous communities to give at-risk youth the opportunity to be engaged in activities to stop the spread of gang activity.

Conservatives vowed to repeal this ban with the support of the gun lobby, which would resume the proliferation of assault-style firearms in Canada. Liberals believe even stronger action is needed to get weapons designed for mass casualties off our streets and out of our communities.

A re-elected Liberal government will:

  • Toughen our laws on banned assault weapons by making it mandatory for owners to either sell the firearm back to the government for destruction and fair compensation or have it rendered fully and permanently inoperable at government expense.
  • Crack down on high-capacity magazines and require that long gun magazines capable of holding more than 5 rounds be permanently altered so that they can never hold more than 5 rounds
  • Ban the sale or transfer of magazines that could hold more than a legal number of bullets, regardless of how they were intended to be used by the manufacturer.
  • Set aside a minimum of $1 billion to support provinces or territories who implement a ban on handguns across their jurisdiction, to keep our cities and communities safe.
We would also continue to combat gender-based violence and fight gun smuggling with measures we have introduced such as:

  • Lifetime background checks to prevent those with a history of abuse against their spouse or partner from obtaining a firearms license.
  • “Red flag” laws that would allow immediate removal of firearms if that person is a threat to themselves or others, particularly to their spouse or partner.
  • Increased maximum penalties for firearms trafficking and smuggling from 10 to 14 years imprisonment.
  • Enhancing the capacity of the RCMP and the Canada Border Services Agency to combat the illegal importation of firearms.'
Remember when I said they were creating a crime crisis to use to their political advantage, well they are clearly starting to use it now. A simple example being locally we had one guy get arrested 3 times in one month for firearms offences (criminal scumbag with illegal firearms). Before that would have been one instance of crime to report and he would have been in jail for a bit. Now its 3 cases, and that was just for one month, likely did more after that.
 

Good2Golf

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Noting that nowhere does their platform include tougher sentencing for the use of illegally procured weapons in the conduct of a criminal activity…
 

SeaKingTacco

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Noting that nowhere does their platform include tougher sentencing for the use of illegally procured weapons in the conduct of a criminal activity…
Come on, now. The next thing you will suggest is that the Liberals use evidence as a basis for policy…
 

Haggis

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I don't see anything new that would prevent another shooting at Jane and Finch. And what happens to their core proposal of a mandatory buyback if the OIC gets overturned by the federal court?
 

SeaKingTacco

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I don't see anything new that would prevent another shooting at Jane and Finch. And what happens to their core proposal of a mandatory buyback if the OIC gets overturned by the federal court?
The LPC is not super interested in fixing any real problems, so much as they are interested in hammering a demographic (gun owners) which won’t vote for them anyway…
 

Haggis

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A re-elected Liberal government will:

  • Crack down on high-capacity magazines and require that long gun magazines capable of holding more than 5 rounds be permanently altered so that they can never hold more than 5 rounds
What do the Liberals define as a "long gun"? Does it include bolt and pump action, too? .22 cal as well?
 

Rick Goebel

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Liberals have anounced they are going to be even harder on firearms owners with the following being in their platform. Ending Gun Violence | Liberal Party of Canada

'Our communities should be safe and peaceful places to live and raise children, but American-style gun violence is rising. 2019 saw the rate of firearm-related offences rise for the fifth straight year, and the homicide rate was the highest in a decade, with 40% of homicides involving firearms. That is why, in May 2020, we took action to put a ban on the use, sale, or import of assault weapons most used in mass shootings and implement a buyback program for owners.

At the same time, we are investing in prevention efforts and are providing $250 million directly to municipalities and Indigenous communities to give at-risk youth the opportunity to be engaged in activities to stop the spread of gang activity.

Conservatives vowed to repeal this ban with the support of the gun lobby, which would resume the proliferation of assault-style firearms in Canada. Liberals believe even stronger action is needed to get weapons designed for mass casualties off our streets and out of our communities.

A re-elected Liberal government will:

  • Toughen our laws on banned assault weapons by making it mandatory for owners to either sell the firearm back to the government for destruction and fair compensation or have it rendered fully and permanently inoperable at government expense.
  • Crack down on high-capacity magazines and require that long gun magazines capable of holding more than 5 rounds be permanently altered so that they can never hold more than 5 rounds
  • Ban the sale or transfer of magazines that could hold more than a legal number of bullets, regardless of how they were intended to be used by the manufacturer.
  • Set aside a minimum of $1 billion to support provinces or territories who implement a ban on handguns across their jurisdiction, to keep our cities and communities safe.
We would also continue to combat gender-based violence and fight gun smuggling with measures we have introduced such as:

  • Lifetime background checks to prevent those with a history of abuse against their spouse or partner from obtaining a firearms license.
  • “Red flag” laws that would allow immediate removal of firearms if that person is a threat to themselves or others, particularly to their spouse or partner.
  • Increased maximum penalties for firearms trafficking and smuggling from 10 to 14 years imprisonment.
  • Enhancing the capacity of the RCMP and the Canada Border Services Agency to combat the illegal importation of firearms.'
Remember when I said they were creating a crime crisis to use to their political advantage, well they are clearly starting to use it now. A simple example being locally we had one guy get arrested 3 times in one month for firearms offences (criminal scumbag with illegal firearms). Before that would have been one instance of crime to report and he would have been in jail for a bit. Now its 3 cases, and that was just for one month, likely did more after that.
Conspicuous by its absence is a line like “As a result of our actions of May 2020, gun crimes were reduced by x%”.
 

Haggis

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Conspicuous by its absence is a line like “As a result of our actions of May 2020, gun crimes were reduced by x%”.
Could that be for the same reason that they have refused to allow a federal court judge to see the "evidence" they used to justify this ban?
 

ModlrMike

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That looks like a really good question to ask during a debate.
 

Good2Golf

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What do the Liberals define as a "long gun"? Does it include bolt and pump action, too? .22 cal as well?
We know it doesn’t include anything substantively from the LPC’s international associates the CCP. Otherwise the Norinco Type 93 NSR-G3 would no longer be approved by Team Trudeau…and it still is not on the prohibited list because….well…China.

Trudeau likes this (Chinese) gun…8DEF1DB3-B765-40D9-B2B2-756DEB94DEBE.jpeg
 

Eaglelord17

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The magazine thing alone would be a huge deal. Pretty much every rifle magazine in Canada with the exemption of a few hunting magazines originally held more than 5rds and were pinned. There is likely millions of magazines that would be impacted by this as well as virtually all firearms owners.

The Liberals are extremely lucky that legal firearms owners aren't the violent murderous types they portray them as. Unfortunately the much of the public doesn't understand that.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The good news is that even if the CPC gets a minority government, they do not have to go to Parliament to reverse the recent legislation by the Liberals.
 

Haggis

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The good news is that even if the CPC gets a minority government, they do not have to go to Parliament to reverse the recent legislation by the Liberals.
To reverse the OIC, no. (Unless the federal court beats them to it, leaving nothing to reverse.🤞) Reversing C-71 will be a whole other story and a bigger fight. I wouldn't be surprised if the opposition turned that into a confidence vote.
 

suffolkowner

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The good news is that even if the CPC gets a minority government, they do not have to go to Parliament to reverse the recent legislation by the Liberals.
I don't know about that. I don't think we'll see a CPC government unless it's a majority. Trudeau will have first chance to form the government as the PM. Maybe if the CPC gets a really big minority?
 
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