The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Haggis]

A Sun editorial yesterday estimated that the Liberals will almost spend twice as much money ($600M over two years) buying back legal firearms than they will spend on fighting gangs and illegal guns ($327 M over five years) ten times more than they will spend to combat smuggling ($60M over five years).

 

[Brad Sallows]

Everyone works hard for all the things in their lives, and everything done at public expense draws from a finite pool.  It's long-established that politics is partly a spoils system.  I don't know of any measures of how much people vote for themselves, versus voting for the general good of society.

 

[mariomike]

I don't know of any measures of how much people vote for themselves, versus voting for the general good of society.

I see gains made by working people as a positive thing for the greater good.

We used run into the angry "I pay your salary" types: "I don't have it, so you shouldn't either!" Like it was a race to the bottom.

You couldn't argue with the taxpayers. But, I used to think the better way of looking at it was, "They have it - why don't I?"

 

[Brad Sallows]

Gains made by "working people" these days tend to pretty narrowly be for the "working people".  Everyone wants to earn more money for less work.  Some people can't be ignored when they stop working, and some people can.

Try to imagine a society in which everyone "has it".  No-one who "has it" right now would like it very much, and they'd be right back in line fighting to get "above it".  A couple of times I've suggested to teachers that daycare workers should make about the same money.  "Oh, no.  They don't have to have a university degree."  (Truly.)  The buying power of some higher income is a lot better in a society with a much lower median income than in a society in which everyone earns the same income.

Gun control is just an aspect of that fight (the politics of selfishness) - people who want something, at someone else's expense.  In this case, some people want a little more security.  They are willing to trade away someone else's liberty for that.  But, instead of limiting the liberties of the people committing most of the crimes, or likely to commit most of the crimes, they have focused on third parties.  The only explanations I can figure for that are the politics of cultural enmity, and - again - the politics of selfishness: your recreation must be forbidden because misadventures might deplete the public resources I need when my recreation leads to misadventure.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=mariomike]
We used run into the angry "I pay your salary" types: [/quote]
There's truth in this though.
For paramedics, police, firefighters, military, teachers and so on.

"I don't have it, so you shouldn't either!"

Exactly.
"I don't own or shoot guns so you shouldn't either".

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Just speculating here but what effect will the proposed Liberal ban on "military style assault rifles" have on Canadian firearms manufactures like Black Creek Labs?

Will they still be allowed to operate? Export only?

If not, will they be compensated for lost of business and all the money they have invested in their company? 

Just asking.

 

[Haggis]

Just speculating here but what effect will the proposed Liberal ban on "military style assault rifles" have on Canadian firearms manufactures like Black Creek Labs?

Will they still be allowed to operate? Export only?

The usual suspects in the gun control campaign have called for  the government to ban further manufacture, sale, resale or importation of 'military style assault weapons" because they will soon be banned anyway.

If not, will they be compensated for lost of business and all the money they have invested in their company? 

Probably not.  If the gun grabbers are telling gun owners who stand to lose thousand in personal property that they should "find another hobby", I'm sure gun companies will be told that they should "find another business line".

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just speculating here but what effect will the proposed Liberal ban on "military style assault rifles" have on Canadian firearms manufactures like Black Creek Labs?

Will they still be allowed to operate? Export only?

If not, will they be compensated for lost of business and all the money they have invested in their company? 

Just asking.

LOL your funny, now off to the Gulag....

 

[AbdullahD]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

https://pm.gc.ca/en/mandate-letters/minister-public-safety-and-emergency-preparedness-mandate-letter

 

[The Bread Guy]

Not sure if this has been posted yet...

https://pm.gc.ca/en/mandate-letters/minister-public-safety-and-emergency-preparedness-mandate-letter

Good catch - here's a bit more on the guns bit ....

 

[Haggis]

Based on the wording of Minister Blair's mandate letter, I don't think the government will issue an OIC to ban so called"assault rifles".  Firearms prohibited under an OIC are generally grandfathered.  This goes against the Liberal's desire to get them out of circulation entirely and quickly.

Legislating them out of existence is slower but will result in them being liable to compensated confiscation (i.e. "bought back").  This and the handgun ban will require amendments to the Criminal Code and Firearms Act.

The handgun ban will likely take the form of legislated changes and regulation issued under the Firearms Act which allows for the creation of municipally defined restriction zones and prohibition zones for certain classes of firearms as defined under the Firearms Act.  Regulations will also be needed which allows the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) to provide municipalities who establish such zones with the names  addresses and ownership particulars for all registered firearms within their restriction and prohibition zones. (You can bet that, at least in Québec, this will also include information from the long gun registry.) Those municipalities will now be empowered to issue confiscation orders and lay charges under the Firearms Act for non compliance.

Lastly, knowing that the Liberals are particularly vindictive when it comes to lawful gun owners, the CFP could be directed by the Minister to deny transfer certificates to anyone living in a restriction or prohibition zone to prevent the migration of firearms to a restriction free zone thereby facilitating confiscation.  I also foresee that the municipalities will not be issuing any compensation.

Her's hoping that none of this actually comes to pass due to the expected short lifespan of this minority government.

 

[Jarnhamar]

More proof of Liberal "evidence based approaches".


https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/towhey-new-crime-data-contradicts-government-gun-plans


The latest crime data released by Statistics Canada make a mockery of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s posturing on gun violence.

The newly released data on homicides and gun violence in Canada during 2018 hold some surprises. Overall, murders are down – not up. Gun killings are down – not up. And gang-related homicides are also down – not up. This holds true almost everywhere in Canada, except in Ontario and Quebec.

For the Liberal government in Ottawa hell-bent on banning hunting and sport rifles, the cold, hard truth spelled out in this StatsCan report is very inconvenient, indeed.

Nationwide, murder was down in 2018

According to StatsCan, there were 651 homicides in Canada last year. That’s down 4% from 2017.

As much as murders are shocking events to good and honest people, and garner 24/7 media coverage, it’s important to remember – as StatsCan points out – homicide is exceedingly rare in Canada.

Compare 651 homicides last year (666 in 2017) to StatsCan figures for other causes of death in 2017 (the last year for which data is publicly available.) 1,968 people died in vehicle accidents. 4,108 died from accidental drug overdoses. 4,904 Canadians died from falls.

A prudent government motivated to reduce death and suffering might focus first on ladders.

Gun deaths down overall

Most murders are not committed with firearms. Last year, 249 of Canada’s 651 homicides were committed with a gun, down 8% from 2017 – the first reduction since 2013.

 

[ModlrMike]

4,904 Canadians died from falls.

Clearly, we must repeal the laws of gravity.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I honestly can’t see very many gun owners comply with any of this. On the other hand, what’s the point in holding onto a rifle or handgun that can’t lawfully be used anywhere?

 

[NavyShooter]

I have 6x FN's + 1x Thompson + 1x AK Variant in my gun safe right now that I haven't legally been allowed to shoot in almost 15 years....

 

[Jarnhamar]

I honestly can’t see very many gun owners comply with any of this. On the other hand, what’s the point in holding onto a rifle or handgun that can’t lawfully be used anywhere?

Good question.

Some people collect vintage cars and never drive them.
Some people collect coins and stamps.
A few months ago I met someone with a $50,000 scotch collection (figuring most bottles were unopened) and I have a couple gerber Mk ii fighting knives I'd never bring to the woods or even cut anything with.

Some gun owners treat their firearms like collection pieces and don't require to shoot them to appreciate them.
That said it's annoying when you do own them and want to shoot them but can't.

In NavyShooters case as many other Canadians that's the government saying fuck you to gun owners rather than somehow keeping people safe or protecting lives.

This gun ban is a $1B vote buy in the Toronto and Montreal strongholds.

 

[Good2Golf]

...A few months ago I met someone with a $50,000 scotch collection (figuring most bottles were unopened)...

???

I was tracking your post up until the Universe started to tear apart right about here...

To quote The Champ, “I says...Pardon??”

 

[Jarnhamar]

???

I was tracking your post up until the Universe started to tear apart right about here...

To quote The Champ, “I says...Pardon??”

During the Ottawa floods a gentleman invited some of us in for drinks when we were checking on houses. I had to be the fun police and refuse the alcohol but he offered some pop so we meet him half way. Ended up showing us this insane collection of scotch and some whiskies. Filled up two rooms. He offered us shots from an $800 or $1800 bottle (can't recall which). It hurt to say no. On the way out I thanked him for the pop and showing the collection but suggested he be a little less trusting of strangers in uniform in the future.
I may or may not have marked it on places to stop when bugging out for the zombie apocalypse.

 

[AbdullahD]

During the Ottawa floods a gentleman invited some of us in for drinks when we were checking on houses. I had to be the fun police and refuse the alcohol but he offered some pop so we meet him half way. Ended up showing us this insane collection of scotch and some whiskies. Filled up two rooms. He offered us shots from an $800 or $1800 bottle (can't recall which). It hurt to say no. On the way out I thanked him for the pop and showing the collection but suggested he be a little less trusting of strangers in uniform in the future.
I may or may not have marked it on places to stop when bugging out for the zombie apocalypse.

Haha hot damn, that is impressive. Pretty cool.

Abdullah

 

[Jarnhamar]

Victims of Toronto’s Danforth shooting launch class-action lawsuit against gun maker Smith & Wesson
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-toronto-danforth-shooting-victims-lawsuit-gun-maker-smith-wesson/

Classy