The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread

[GAP]

almost forgot.....

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/05/31/chinook-afghanistan.html

Is that an Air Force beret and cap badge i see.......

What? He was a tourist?  ;D

 

[aesop081]

Just because its so much fun.....

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_e.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=20922&site=combatcamera

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_e.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=20918&site=combatcamera

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/netpub/server.np?find&catalog=photos&template=detail_e.np&field=itemid&op=matches&value=30244&site=combatcamera

and then....

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061215/oliver_resupplymission_061215/20061215/

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1991

 

[PuckChaser]

A Tactical Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (TUAV) unit comprised primarily of personnel from 438 Tactical Helicopter Squadron (438 ETAH) based in St-Hubert, Quebec, and members from 5 RALC in Valcartier;

I totally couldn't resist this one.... remember, its the army that goes and picks those TUAV's up after they crash, so the Jawa-like Afghan's don't steal em.  ;D

PS. The preceeding post was not intended to be a flame, in fact I solemly believe that we should have up-to-date strike aircraft deployed here. I mean heck, the French have Mirages here, and their troops are safely up north.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

The field army is at war, like it or not.  The Navy is not, and neither is the air force.  Therefore, in my opinion, a general from the feild army should be leading the forces.  If the navy were at war, then likewise.  And if all three branches are at war, the again, it should be a field army general.  Here's a question, just cause you have to be bilingual to be CDS, does that mean you have to continually switch languages when speaking to troops?  In Bosnia on Roto 11 the last CDS (RCAF one) spoke to a all english weatern Canada based rifle company in french and english, and nobody had a clue what he said.  But I guarentee he wasn't talking about killing scumbags because he was a politician more than a leader.

This is a pretty army centric posting. I guess we'd better tell the divers from FDU(A) who are over in theatre working on those IEDs that they're not at war and the seventy pers who went from MARLANT on the last roto too while we're at it. Oh yeah and that ship that's departing here in the next little while to go on a six  month tour to enforce the blockade we'd better tell them to stand down too (gosh they have a helicopter on board too with a whole bunch of blue uniforms).
One of the reasons we've gone to this Joint command structure is because we're all in this together. Just because you're not sitting in a slit trench doesn't mean you're not fighting the war...it's a group effort.
Having said all that I think the mantle will pass to an army general  anyway and that would be because he is the best qualified military leader to do it IMHO.

 

[vonGarvin]

How about this:
The Canadian Armed Forces are at war.  Canadians are at the mall, wondering when the retail prices will drop due to the soaring dollar.  (104.12 cents US in overseas trading as of 0900 26 Oct 2007)

 

[Kiwi99]

Six month blockade...of what?  A landlocked country?  Please.

I would go a step further and add that it is the Field Army that is "at war" - I remain unconvinced that the Institutional Army has made that leap.

And this guy gets paid mre than most of us.  The Air Force  supplies a couple of aircrews and says they are at war!!!  The navy does a blockade!!  A bunch of Taliban rowing in the ocean or something?  The field army is at war, the rest may be supporting, but they are not at war.

 

[Infanteer]

Easy Kiwi.

You make the point, but try to do it better.  Yes, the Army is bearing the brunt of the effort in this war, but our sister services are doing their best where they can and I have no doubt if needed on a larger scale, they would come through.  Let's not denigrate the other services because the Taliban don't have boats or planes....

 

[Neill McKay]

And this guy gets paid mre than most of us.  The Air Force  supplies a couple of aircrews and says they are at war!!!  The navy does a blockade!!  A bunch of Taliban rowing in the ocean or something?  The field army is at war, the rest may be supporting, but they are not at war.

Do you feel that the army is at war, or only the infantry?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Six month blockade...of what?  A landlocked country?  Please.

And this guy gets paid mre than most of us.  The Air Force  supplies a couple of aircrews and says they are at war!!!  The navy does a blockade!!  A bunch of Taliban rowing in the ocean or something?  The field army is at war, the rest may be supporting, but they are not at war.

Bullshit.
What do you call the Navy EOD types and Airforce truckers (to name two) who you'll run into at the FOBs?

This kinda eat your own 'my trade is better than your trade army beats airforce' shit is what needs to get punted from the forces.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Six month blockade...of what?  A landlocked country?  Please.

And this guy gets paid mre than most of us.  The Air Force  supplies a couple of aircrews and says they are at war!!!  The navy does a blockade!!  A bunch of Taliban rowing in the ocean or something?  The field army is at war, the rest may be supporting, but they are not at war.

You better brush up on the elements of war. Blocakade is an act of war and the ships are searching and seizing nasty stuff and people that are bound to go in and give the grunts a bad day. (it moves through other couuntries that are not land locked) Are the pilots that are flying your UAVs at war or are they just REMFS too?) It's a total effort and if you don't believe that try to get into theatre without the Air Force. I understand that people are getting shot at, wounded and killed on the ground and that is the toughest part of the fight without a doubt but the support tail is an important part of the fight.

 

[aesop081]

Six month blockade...of what?  A landlocked country?  Please.

And this guy gets paid mre than most of us.  The Air Force  supplies a couple of aircrews and says they are at war!!!  The navy does a blockade!!  A bunch of Taliban rowing in the ocean or something?  The field army is at war, the rest may be supporting, but they are not at war.

Awesome, i will call the Commanders of 8 and 17 Wings on Monday and inform them that all CC-177, CC-130 and CC-150 crews and aircraft can come home and that the air bridge from Canada to Afghanistan can stop.  Its certainly a wasted effort as the army doesnt require it. While i'm at it i will also call Comd 1CAD and let him know that he can repatriate all the cooks, medics, sup techs, mse ops, air field engineers, clerks, traffic techs, etc, etc.... that came from Air force bases around Canada.

This will leave the air force more personel and resources for dealing with the Russians, monitoring the north, fisheries patrols, search and rescue, humanitarian operations........all of thos things we do at the same time as Afghanistan.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Awesome, i will call the Commanders of 8 and 17 Wings on Monday and inform them that all CC-177, CC-130 and CC-150 crews and aircraft can come home and that the air bridge from Canada to Afghanistan can stop.  Its certainly a wasted effort as the army doesnt require it. While i'm at it i will also call Comd 1CAD and let him know that he can repatriate all the cooks, medics, sup techs, mse ops, air field engineers, clerks, traffic techs, etc, etc.... that came from Air force bases around Canada.

This will leave the air force more personel and resources for dealing with the Russians, monitoring the north, fisheries patrols, search and rescue, humanitarian operations........all of thos things we do at the same time as Afghanistan.

Checkmate

 

[c_canuk]

I think that the next CDS should not only be Army, but should be Cbt Arms for the reason that the part of the mission that is the most dangerous and important to long term success rests with the Combat arms; therefore a leader with the education and experience of service within the combat arms needs to be in the lead.

The Navy and Airforce are contributing in very real and significant ways, however their leaders are not equipped to command a force fielding a 2500 member task force engaged in a ground based conflict especially since the vast majority of that force is army.

Commanders from the Navy and Airforce can and will petition the CDS for their needs which is why there are Generals/Admirals that report directly to the CDS on behalf of their elements.

The consequences of the CF loosing sight of it's requirements to support the ground force or mismanage it's assets to the detriment of the ground force in Afghanistan, however unlikely you might think it is, is too great a risk to ignore in order to be PC and make sure the Airforce or the Navy don't get their feelings hurt in the setting aside of the traditional custom of choosing the next CDS from each element in sequence.

Airforce and Navy pers serving alongside the army in Afghanistan will suffer any policy shift that puts the ground troops in greater danger and hardship as well, so it is in their best interest to have the most qualified CDS for the time we live in to be in charge. Even to the possible, yet unlikely, detriment of the Navy and Airforce pers back home in Canada.

The bottom line is that the person most qualified should get the position, however, it is out of the military's hands as the promotion to CDS is a political task and will be done in accordance to the ruling political party's best interests not necessarily the CFs.

Therefore a flame war between the elements on who is more important is pointless and a waste of time. No one element can stand without the support of the others.

 

[Neill McKay]

I think that the next CDS should not only be Army, but should be Cbt Arms for the reason that the part of the mission that is the most dangerous and important to long term success rests with the Combat arms; therefore a leader with the education and experience of service within the combat arms needs to be in the lead.

The Navy and Airforce are contributing in very real and significant ways, however their leaders are not equipped to command a force fielding a 2500 member task force engaged in a ground based conflict especially since the vast majority of that force is army.

Commanders from the Navy and Airforce can and will petition the CDS for their needs which is why there are Generals/Admirals that report directly to the CDS on behalf of their elements.

I would note, though, that personally running land (or any) operations is not the CDS' function.

the traditional custom of choosing the next CDS from each element in sequence.

Do we have such a custom?  If so it's been poorly observed in recent years.

 

[geo]

I think that the next CDS should not only be Army, but should be Cbt Arms for the reason that the part of the mission that is the most dangerous and important to long term success rests with the Combat arms; therefore a leader with the education and experience of service within the combat arms needs to be in the lead.

Uhh... Combat arms are part of the Army.

The Navy and Airforce are contributing in very real and significant ways, however their leaders are not equipped to command a force fielding a 2500 member task force engaged in a ground based conflict especially since the vast majority of that force is army.

The CDS does not directly command the deployed troops in the field.  You can consider the Commander of the Army or the Commander of CEF.COM to be the fearless leader of the troops at the pointy end.

The bottom line is that the person most qualified should get the position, however, it is out of the military's hands as the promotion to CDS is a political task and will be done in accordance to the ruling political party's best interests not necessarily the CFs.

True

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I agree that the best qualified should get the job regardless of his branch of service and that the CLS is the commander of the field army not the CDS, however, we all know that the CDS has a great deal of influence over where the priorities are placed. Hopefully the choice will be one which does not forget that we are all in need of pers and equipment and dollars. We must never sacrifice the safety of our pers in the theatre or in the air or at sea....or in the office/warehouse.

 

[dapaterson]

... the CLS is the commander of the field army not the CDS...

Actually, the CLS is responsible for the force generation of land-centric forces.  Once they deploy to the field, the force employer takes over - in North America, Canada Command; outside North America, Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command.

 

[c_canuk]

my point was the mission in Afghanistan is top priority right now and therefore the CDS needs to have the background to plan around it effectivly just as if we were scouring the seas to eliminate pirates attacking oil tankers or what have you the CDS should be of a Naval background. While the CDS doesn't directly control the mission, policies and decisions the CDS makes will affect the mission.

When I said not only army but combat arms I meant an army combat arms trade CDS, ie not supply or log for example.

 

[geo]

cc
Regardless of the colour of his uniform, the CDS surrounds himself with specialists from all branches.  He would be neglignet to ignore or short change even one branch.

The best man for the job is the one who should get it.... Period!

At present, we have the chiefs of Land, Sea & Air AND the chiefs of Canada.com, CEF.com & SOF.com as possible contenders for the big job.

 

[GAP]

Rick Hillier is revered by troops in Afghanistan, which predictably -- and unfairly -- makes him the target of a shooting gallery at home
By PETER WORTHINGTON, TORONTO SUN
Article Link

No question about it: They are out to "get" Rick Hillier, the general who has revived Canada's army as a fighting force.

Who are "they?"

Well, some are politicians (not all of them in opposition ranks), some are anti-military peace-at-any-pricers, some (these are among the most dangerous) are insiders at DND, and some are unwitting media types who mindlessly regurgitate what they are told.

The "why" is more difficult to explain.

Why would anyone want Hillier removed or replaced as chief of defence staff (CDS) when his leadership has effectively raised morale and made the army more like it was when Canadian troops fought in world wars?

Our military's role and effectiveness in Afghanistan have boosted Canada's reputation and status in the world. It has done Canada and Canadians proud.

Credit for this isn't all Hillier's, but irrefutably he's the face of our "new" army and he relishes the spotlight -- which in a way is part of his trouble.
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