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The Fall of Stephane Dion

Reccesoldier

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Although I'm on the record here in other threads as thinking that Dion is merely a seat warmer for the Liberal King in waiting (Trudeau) I'm going to call it now that he will never be permitted to lead the Liberal Party in an election.

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/National/2008/03/26/5103291-sun.html

So let the speculation begin.  Who will it be, Ignatief, the Canadian of convenience, Rae the Liberal of convenience or my personal favorite Justin, King in Waiting and seed of the loins of Pierre the Great.

In my opinion it really doesn't matter, the Liberals have shown that the only thing they attack with more gusto than Conservatives is other Liberals.  The Martin - Cretien feud is a poison pill and has not worked its way through the digestive system of the big Red machine yet, nor will it in the near future.
 
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KJL

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Not exactly hard to foresee Dion going down, the man doesn't have an ounce of leadership in his body. He's just not electable. The other thing is that since there leadership convention didn't effectively anoint a leader and Dion kept his main rivals close to him and in the spotlight ( when it shines on the Opposition anyway), there's no clear successor so the attacks on fellow Liberals will only continue for the next few years.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I would hate to see Dion go before the election. His ineptitude almost guarantees the CPC a victory.

The liberal base support in Ontario, notwithstanding Rae's newly parachuted into riding, still have too recent a memory of him as premier and he would erode the Morontario red powerbase too much. His riding would have voted for Hitler or Stalin if they ran as the liberal candidate.

Trudeau is not a mature enough statesman. He's misstepped too much since they offered him the safety and backing of the party. He's done an excellent job so far of alienating non bilingual persons, the west and anyone that considers themselves a hard working Canadian.There are also many, I think, within the party elite that didn't like daddy much and have no inclination to let that particular legacy endure. I also believe that the general public today is more politically savvy, than my starry eyed sisters and their ilk were when they voted for that pompous prig PET simply on his charisma.

Ignatieff on the other hand, he could cause trouble. He has some personality hurdles to overcome, but he's fast on his feet. Very intelligent, but uses to many $30.00 words for the working man.

Nope, I hope Dion leads the libs into the next election. He's the best thing that ever happened to not only the CPC, but all the other parties to boot. I really never thought there could be anyone worse than Martin, but there he is! ;D

All just my $00.02 and opinion.
 

armyvern

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Well,

Apparently all the current Liberal issues are NOT all just a matter of him lacking "charisma" then (like I ever thought that).  ::)

Evidently there are those in the party (at least the Quebec wing) who "want a leader." Imagine that. What a concept. An actual Leader --- perhaps one with some leadership abilities & skills who actually CAN lead.

Doesn't sit too well with me that M. Dion then makes this comment (and I really do hope he is wrong here):

He added that the Quebec wing of the party was ready to sway voters should an election be called this spring.

"Instead of being scared of losing, we must showcase our will to win. And we will win, united, in Quebec," Dion proclaimed.

A wing that admits that their Leader is not a leader at all and that can not lead the party is actually willing to sway voters to elect that non-Leadership capable individual to lead the country?? They don't want him to run the party, but him running the country is OK?? Seems quite logical to me.  ::)

Somewhere on here --- just the other day --- someone made the remark that for the Liberals it wasn't about "what's good for Country, but rather it was about gaining & retaining power only." <--- or something to that effect.

After this article, I'm leaning towards agreement with that observation.

 
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KJL

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Think it may have been Klein who said it, something to the effect of its never good to be in power for too long a period of time....Just my two cents, but the Liberals need to spend some time on the Opposition side of the House again. Then again, Harpers actually spending money on the CF so Im alright with that for the time being.
 

JesseWZ

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They have been on the opposition side, for two years... But I agree. They can stay there for as long as they want.
 

Yrys

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JesseWZ said:
They can stay there for as long as they want.

huh, they don't WANT to be there for longer that it will take to make an election  :p !
 

JesseWZ

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I would disagree, by continuing to allow Dion as leader its like they enjoy being in Opposition.
 

Yrys

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JesseWZ said:
I would disagree, by continuing to allow Dion as leader its like they enjoy being in Opposition.

If it was that easy a mechanism, Ignatieff and Rae would have league together to have a leadership course, it seems to me...
 

midget-boyd91

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In my opinion (not that it's really worth a full 2 cents), Ignatieff and Rae would like to see Dion go through a federal election. They wouldn't need to worry about the CPC gaining a majority.. there are too damn many parties running for that to happen.
Dion would be quite frankly, given the boot after losing XX number of seats to X party (but would 'step down' graciously) giving Ignats or Rae the party. This is what they want. They want to be the heroes whom swoop to the rescue after the dismal failure that is M. Dion.
Anything and anybody, including some of the road kill out here, will appear to be the worlds greatest leader to the Liberals and their shifted supporters after the blundering, stumbling Dion mess..  Score one for Ignats/Rae.

Midget
 

Reccesoldier

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uncle-midget-boyd said:
In my opinion (not that it's really worth a full 2 cents), Ignatieff and Rae would like to see Dion go through a federal election. They wouldn't need to worry about the CPC gaining a majority.. there are too damn many parties running for that to happen.

All those other parties are dividing a (shrinking?) piece of the left side of the pie, leaving only the CPC to express the views of those on the right, small and large "C" conservatives, libertarians etc.

I agree though I'd love to see Harper shred Dion in a real election, not that it would be as much a show as a one-sided donkey whipping.
 

a_majoor

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This makes me wonder. The conventional wisdom is the current "troika" at the head of the Liberal party are the contenders for leadership, and the King in Waiting may/could swoop in and take all the marbles while the big three are impaled on each other's knives.

Since we have seen first hand examples of how people with no identifiable beliefs or platforms can capture parties and even power (Premier McGuinty in Ontario, Senator Obama in the United States), I don't think the true story is on the front benches of parliament. We see shadowy hints of the power brokers in the Liberal Party at work, Bob Rae is aligned with the Chretien/Power Corp wing of the party and even openly employed people involved in ADSCAM as part of his election team. I suspect at least some of this back room group recognizes that the current crop of Liberals leadership wannabes has too much baggage, and may be making other plans. The King in Waiting is one plausible solution, the name recognition alone must be quite tempting to exploit.

I wonder if there is a "B" team in the wings. Gerard Kennedy and Martha Hall Findlay were both contenders, and on surface examination don't seem to be lightweights or loose cannons. Maybe there are other names as well?

Someone with greater inside knowledge of the workings of the Liberal Party will need to look into this in order to shine a light on what is really happening.

someone made the remark that for the Liberals it wasn't about "what's good for Country, but rather it was about gaining & retaining power only."

This seems to be a paraphrase of Warren Kinsella, although I confess I can't seem to find the exact quote right now.

 

RangerRay

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Thucydides said:
Since we have seen first hand examples of how people with no identifiable beliefs or platforms can capture parties and even power (Premier McGuinty in Ontario, Senator Obama in the United States)...

You forgot the obvious...Pauly "Mr. Dithers" Martin!  ;D
 

stegner

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Think it may have been Klein who said it, something to the effect of its never good to be in power for too long a period of time

He said that about Chretien.  Klein would go on to serve as Premier longer than Chretien served as PM.  The PC's got fed up and kicked him out of power.  He really needed to take his own advice.  Harper has also noted that he would not serve longer than 8 years as PM. 

This seems to be a paraphrase of Warren Kinsella, although I confess I can't seem to find the exact quote right now.

He probably said this about Martin not about Liberals in general considering he is the guy the runs Dalton's warrooms.  It's not just true of the Liberals it's true about all political parties. 


Be a man don't like Dion. 

Reccesoldier I would rather have women liking me than men  ;)



If you go to the media coverage around September 2005 you saw similar stuff written about Stephen Harper.  Just a couple months later is he was in power.  I am not saying necessarily that this is the case for Dion, but hey stranger things have happened.  I guess the media is getting bored and needs to start causing conflict again.  Who cares what Liza Frulla thinks anyway?   
 

a_majoor

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The media both sadly underestimated Stephen Harper, and like many segments of Canadian society are fundamentally opposed to the precepts of Classical Liberalism, and will say and do many things to support the cause of Progressivism.

Mr Dion has one very good reason to hang on at all costs: his leadership debts. While they will become illegal campaign contributions in July of this year if not paid off, at least the Party will be partially or entirely on the hook, whereas if he is deposed, he will be financially ruined.

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2008/03/how-long-does-d.html

The Shotgun Blog

Friday, March 28, 2008
How Long Does Dion Have Left?

I'm pretty sure that we've reached the endgame for M. Dion now. When the leader's deputy is leaking against him and the leader is practically begging for people on his home turf to stop undermining him, the game is about over.

Frankly, the fact is that Dion has no chance in a General Election. He'd start out behind and then he'd fall further and further back. He's going to lose in Quebec and he can't really communicate in the other official language, so that'd be the end of that. The Tories could run attack ads consisting entirely of his horribly mangled English.

There's one major obstacle in the way - Dion's leadership debts. He still owes hundreds of thousands of dollars and, if he's turfed from the leadership, he'll have no way to pay them. Indeed, if Dion can't retain the leadership, there's a pretty good chance that he'd end up personally broke.

I said, two years ago when this race began, that the Liberals would pick Dion because he was the only Francophone in the race and the only plausible candidate who didn't offend a large part of the Liberal base. The problem is that the idea of Dion has proven to be much better than the reality. I can't recall as inept a leader of one of the major parties.

So, here's what to watch for.

First - watch for Dion to get a truly golden parachute. It's the only way to make this happen. The Liberal's don't have the money - and aren't going to be able to raise it - to pay off Dion's debts. So they're going to have to turn to some of their friends in the private sector for help here.

Second, despite his credible performance as deputy leader, I wouldn't count on Ignatieff to just jump into place. The Liberals believe that they have a chance now - certainly they must given that the odds now are that the next election won't be until the fixed date in late 2009.

Posted by Adam T. Yoshida on March 28, 2008 in Canadian Politics
 

footslogger

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The thing that I can't understand is that in the polls both Conservatives and Liebrils are very close to being tied.  What could it possibly take for these people to see that party for what it is?
 
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footslogger said:
The thing that I can't understand is that in the polls both Conservatives and Liebrils are very close to being tied.  What could it possibly take for these people to see that party for what it is?

God coming down from heaven, telling everyone to vote for the Tories.
 

VM

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Dion may be the least political politician I have ever seen. His political game (and we all know often times politics is a game) is dreadful at best. I consider myself more Liberal than conservative, and it is a bit disapointing to see the Liberal party going down the tubes because of one man. That being said, I consider myself Liberal because of many of the ideologies I adhere to, Liberals are just closer to me in thought then conservatives are. The practical is a different story. Like many (I would say most) I consider myself almost non-partisan, and vote purely on the party which represents the closest form to what I think is right. And because of the existence of this kind of politics among the Canadian voters the Leader of parties play a gigantic role, and thus, the Liberal party doesn't stand a chance. If the Liberals had Ignatieff it would be a different story, and I would surely vote for the Liberals, now I am in a tough spot when the next election does come.

Of course, my 2 cents may count as nothing, as I am a recent university graduate and my political ideologies have been up and down. Went from being conservative (before uni) to being the middleman, to being Liberal, to being border line Marxist for a year, and then back down the other way. I see myself moving more and more back towards middle the more months I'm out of university. Wierd.

Was it Churchill who said, "The young person who is a conservative is heartless, the older person who is Liberal is stupid."  Something like that at least.
 
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