The Decline of the Liberal Party- Swerved Into a Confederation Topic

[Kat Stevens]

It's petty, not exactly diplomatic and proper, or maybe no truth to it. However, similar to Kat, I'm sick and tired of the west blaming their woes, slings and arrows, on Ontario. They bitch and whine about their oil. All the time forgetting that if it wasn't for Ontario, our tool making, machining, smelting and production in Ontario, the west would still be scraping in the dirt. Most of the rig tooling comes from here. Tons of the roughnecks come from the east. It's a symbiotic existence. One side can't do their jobs without the other. Quit blaming each other and understand this isn't a provincial problem. It's the fault of the federal government and their archaic policies, to divide us and bankrupt us. Put the blame where it belongs. Try and figure how to vote? You won't do it with 17,000 people (PEI) driving policy for 15 million (ONT). I don't care how you try divide it.

For the umpteenth, and last time. I'm trying to explain here that people who dismiss western displeasure do so from a position of either not knowing, or not caring, that the federal govt has launched a steadfast campaign of biting the hand that feeds them. That's it. That's all. I've already explained where I stand, as I don't work in any of those industries under attack, but I live right in the middle of all the people that do. I understand it. Others clearly don't. Good enough for me, I'll drop out of this because I'm clearly pissing in the wind.

 

[brihard]

The federal government that Ontbec keeps putting in power.

Fun facts: the CPC got more votes in Ontario than they did in any other province, and got nearly half their seats east of the MB/ON border.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Fun facts: the CPC got more votes in Ontario than they did in any other province, and got nearly half their seats east of the MB/ON border.

Clearly not enough, Also fun fact: As everyone keeps reminding me, Ontario has all the people, it stands to reason there would be more blue votes. QED, innit? Numbers are fun!

 

[brihard]

Clearly not enough, Also fun fact: As everyone keeps reminding me, Ontario has all the people, it stands to reason there would be more blue votes. QED, innit? Numbers are fun!

I’m just glad someone in this thread grasps parliamentary representation being proportionate to population.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I’m just glad someone in this thread grasps parliamentary representation being proportionate to population.

Fuck it, I knew I should have just walked away from this. My point has the square root of fuck all to do with ridings and population and who's ass warms what seat. People are angry and other people don't see why and never will. That's it. G'bye now.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

SOME people are angry.....

 

[Kirkhill]

It's petty, not exactly diplomatic and proper, or maybe no truth to it. However, similar to Kat, I'm sick and tired of the west blaming their woes, slings and arrows, on Ontario. They bitch and whine about their oil. All the time forgetting that if it wasn't for Ontario, our tool making, machining, smelting and production in Ontario, the west would still be scraping in the dirt. Most of the rig tooling comes from here. Tons of the roughnecks come from the east. It's a symbiotic existence. One side can't do their jobs without the other. Quit blaming each other and understand this isn't a provincial problem. It's the fault of the federal government and their archaic policies, to divide us and bankrupt us. Put the blame where it belongs. Try and figure how to vote? You won't do it with 17,000 people (PEI) driving policy for 15 million (ONT). I don't care how you try divide it.

For the record, we can buy tooling from the States and Germany. Ontario and Quebec have benefited from Sir John A. MacDonald's National Policy.

National Policy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The National Policy was a Canadian economic program introduced by John A. Macdonald's Conservative Party in 1876. After Macdonald led the Conservatives to victory in the 1878 Canadian federal election, he began implementing his policy in 1879. The protective policy had shown positive responses in the economy with new industries flourishing Canada's economy in the 1880s. John A. Macdonald combined three elements as a strategy for the post-Confederation economy. First, by calling for high tariffs on imported manufactured items to protect the manufacturing industry. Second, by calling for a massive expansion of physical infrastructure, such as roads and railroads. Finally, enabled and supported by the former two, by promoting population growth, particularly in western Canada.

Macdonald influenced Canadians to buy Canadian products to promote Canada's economy. The problems were that the railways were easily importing goods and products from the United States that were much cheaper than Canadian-made goods. Macdonald proposed to put tax or tariffs on American imported goods and products.

You might want to also consider the tale of Massey-Harris and the effects of the Crow Rate on development of industry on the prairies.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The notion that municipal government has greater effect on people than higher levels is a quaint myth.

Given what I could do with the amount of money the federal government taxes away, the way that money is used to buy votes, and the constant social fiddling the feds like to do, there's no question the federal government is the most intrusive and influential. I do live in a municipality which hasn't the luxury of worrying about more than basic infrastructure, though, which might set me apart from people living in places where councils are obsessed with social engineering.

The Federal government barely knows you exist. the Provincial government is aware that you live somewhere in the Province. The Muncipal government knows what the colour of your house is, if you have a dog, how much water you use, number of cars, etc, etc. So yes people feel the impact more.

 

[Kirkhill]

SOME people are angry.....

No. A fair number of people are angry. Some are just discontent. Some are reaching their tipping point. And despite the general distribution across the country there is a shared sense of discontent in the non-Vancouver West (Rupert-George-The Crow-Edmonton-Red Deer-Calgary-Lethbridge-The Hat-Regina-Saskatoon-Winnipeg-The Lakehead). Different places have different degrees of dissatisfaction but Rupert's Land, by and large, has a shared identity so they tend to cluster around the same issues.

I know there are folks in Ontario dissatisfied as well. And in Quebec. And the Atlantic. And the North. They tend to have separate identities and separate issues. And it is that separation that keeps a minority in power.

 

[dapaterson]

Honest question: has there ever been a federal government with a majority of the popular vote?

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Know" and "impact" are two different things. Local government doesn't conduct a census. Mine doesn't even have metered water.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Conservatives in '58 and '84 managed to get over 50% of votes cast.

 

[OldSolduer]

Absolutely and they should be represented equally. High population density should not be dictating to low population density.

Treat them equally. They both provide different capabilities to our society and both have intrinsic value. Equal value, treat them as such.

Remember Paul Martin?

“The minority will not be dictated to by the majority “

In Canada that will never happen

 

[dapaterson]

Conservatives in '58 and '84 managed to get over 50% of votes cast.

In the latter case, resulting in manilla envelopes full of cash to the PM.

 

[Grimey]

You lived on Vancouver Island, the leftest of all leftist enclaves, with a guaranteed pay cheque twice a month? How did you ever survive? I bet you have a friend that lives in Calgary too.

Leftist? You forget that the island was represented by the Refoooorrrm Party (stand fast Victoria) from 1993 to the mid oughties. So maybe more contrarian than left. I would say though that Mr. Garrison and the rest of Van Isle Team Dipper aren’t going anywhere soon. Why Liz is still ensconced in Saanich and the islands beggars belief.

 

[YZT580]

Come to NS, party politics is definitely involved in municipal politics.

and in Toronto for sure. It has had a solid NDP input municipally for years

 

[dapaterson]

Come to NS, party politics is definitely involved in municipal politics.

From what I have seen, you can tell who a riding voted for based on the condition of the roads.

 

[Lumber]

This is all kind of for not, isn't it? I mean, scream and reveal all you want, but even if the Liberals are as bad as everyone says they are, and the Liberals lose and we see another 8-10 years of Conservative governments, the Liberals will be back soon enough. They aren't going anywhere.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The federal government that Ontbec keeps putting in power.

Sigh. You mean Toronto, Ottawa and Kingston. Not Ontario.

 

[mariomike]

and in Toronto for sure. It has had a solid NDP input municipally for years

I've never seen party politics on the municipal ballot.

John Tory is on his third term as mayor. Rob Ford did a term before that.