• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Syrian Refugee Crisis (aka: Muslim Exodus and Europe)

Why Europe Needs Syria's Refugees: A Continent 'In Demographic Decline'

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/21/europe-declining-population-refugees_n_8169804.html?utm_hp_ref=canada

 
In the 17th and 18th centuries a few thousand people from Europe invaded N. America and completely changed the continent forever.  The then residents were forced into subservient positions and pushed to the fringes of what had been their own country.  What is happening in Europe is no less than another invasion and will end up with the same results.  Huffington to the contrary, the people of Europe have to decide if they wish to have these changes forced upon them.  It is more than just a few jokes about the loss of Octoberfest.  The cultural changes will be profound.  Islam is not interested in being changed but in changing the lands into which it expands.  Hungary has already said no and that is their legitimate choice. 
 
YZT580 said:
In the 17th and 18th centuries a few thousand people from Europe invaded N. America and completely changed the continent forever.  The then residents were forced into subservient positions and pushed to the fringes of what had been their own country.  What is happening in Europe is no less than another invasion and will end up with the same results ....
Here's how one Italian nationalist/right-wing party puts it:  "They couldn't regulate immigration - now they live on reserves."
 
To be fair, they're not wrong.  That was the outcome even if it's not a honest comparison to today's drama.
 
The Italian Connection: The origin of Europe's, and the West's ills.

Too bad the Islamic world didn't read the book.

Limits to Growth (1972)

limits-to-growth.jpg


Donella H. Meadows, Dennis L. Meadows, Jorgen Randers and William W. Behrens III, (1972) Limits to Growth, New York: New American Library.

In 1972, the Club of Rome’s infamous report “The Limits to Growth” (Meadows et al., 1972) presented some challenging scenarios for global sustainability, based on a system dynamics computer model to simulate the interactions of five global economic subsystems, namely: population, food production, industrial production, pollution, and consumption of non-renewable natural resources. Contrary to popular belief, The Limits to Growth scenarios by the team of analysts from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology did not predict world collapse by the end of the 20th Century. This paper focuses on a comparison of recently collated historical data for 1970–2000 with scenarios presented in the Limits to Growth. The analysis shows that 30 years of historical data compares favorably with key features of a business-as-usual scenario called the “standard run” scenario, which results in collapse of the global system midway through the 21st Century. The data does not compare well with other scenarios involving comprehensive use of technology or stabilizing behaviour and policies. The results indicate the particular importance of understanding and controlling global pollution.

Source: http://www.manicore.com/fichiers/Turner_Meadows_vs_historical_data.pdf

I will sum up the message as it was broadcast to me in Grade 10 Geography.  I was 16 when the book came out.

"Everybody Stop! You are doomed!  You are all going to die!  Stop making things!  Stop eating!  Stop making babies!"

And to add a degree of piquancy to the end of the world, there was a seasoning of "Ice Age Hysteria".

The politicians took it to heart.

They introduced policies which favoured the elimination of babies - low and behold there are no follow on generations to perform work.
They introduced policies that changed the diet (margarine and high fructose corn syrup and the Green Revolution*).
They introduced policies that shut down the industrial society (closed mines and mills).

In the rest of the world the policies were adopted hodge-podge.

China agreed with limiting babies - but eagerly turned itself into a land of "Dark, satanic mills".  Just as did India (Gandhi originally complained that his dhoti was made in England of cotton grown in India - he wanted Satanic Mills for Indians).

In Islam, and much of the Catholic world, the call for smaller families went unheeded.

So, now we are surprised that the Average European is retiring (quite nicely on a government pension thank-you very much). And the multitudes of unemployed Muslims and Catholics (sorry TV but I don't know how else to broadly categorize the Phillipinos and Latinos) are confronted with three options:

They can move to China or India and work in over-crowded, less than tolerant societies, for low wages in DSMs.

They can move to America and work in a less crowded but still less than tolerant society, for whatever the market will bear doing whatever they can find, legal or illegal.

They can move to Europe and retire on Government benefits.....

Oh and by the way.  We never did run out of oil, coal, gas or copper, or trees.

* The Green Revolution and industrial policy was so successful in solving the food shortage that now the biggest problems are an over-supply of "empty" calories, so that we are reduced to burning wine, whiskey, corn oil and tortillas, and the population is obese because it has more fuel than it needs.  Food. Feed. Fertilizer. Fuel.  It is all the same stuff.  All carbon based.  The only difference is where the cells that consume that carbon are located.
 
YZT580 said:
In the 17th and 18th centuries a few thousand people from Europe invaded N. America and completely changed the continent forever.  The then residents were forced into subservient positions and pushed to the fringes of what had been their own country.  What is happening in Europe is no less than another invasion and will end up with the same results.  Huffington to the contrary, the people of Europe have to decide if they wish to have these changes forced upon them.  It is more than just a few jokes about the loss of Octoberfest.  The cultural changes will be profound.  Islam is not interested in being changed but in changing the lands into which it expands.  Hungary has already said no and that is their legitimate choice.

Rubbish.

These immigrants are not being sent as formed vanguards of a conquering, hugely technologically advanced, civilization. They are refugees who will likely quickly settle into all the jobs that the Europeans need people for. In two generations they won't even remember where they came from.

You know, kind of like the Irish in North America  ;D
 
daftandbarmy said:
Rubbish.
........ In two generations they won't even remember where they came from.


I disagree.  Here is a documentary (29 minutes) done by ZDF on German TV, and note the mention of the Turkish Guastwerker's who have been in Germany for over twenty years.  They may not remember where they came from, but they have also not integrated into German society, culture, nor accepting of German Laws.  It takes a look at Canada's immigration process, and also questions where tolerance should end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWAIKoatWM
 
Meanwhile, in Vienna...

Reuters

Austrian far-right party gets electoral boost from migrant crisis
Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:15pm EDT

VIENNA (Reuters) - Austria's far-right Freedom Party (FPO) doubled its votes to finish a strong second in a state election on Sunday, dealing a blow to the two main centrist parties which were left nursing heavy losses.

The conservative Austrian People's Party (OVP) came in first at 36.4 percent of the vote, despite losing about 10 percentage points compared to the last election in 2009, and was followed by the FPO at 30.4 percent, according to the final results.

The Social Democrats (SPO) lost around six percentage points to finish third at 18.4 percent.

The anti-immigrant FPO has scored over 30 percent in recent national opinion polls, overtaking the Social Democrats and conservatives who have traditionally ruled Austria in coalitions since World War II.

(...SNIPPED)
 
Having some issues getting on the Internet in my current location, but read two reports that Europeans are starting to react violently against the "migrants".

In the first instance, the largest mosque in the UK was set on fire, apparently by two British youths, suffering extensive damage. In the second instance, a former gym in Germany was torched when it was being prepared to accommodate up to 400 people. the town will now not be able to accept any new people.

If anyone can find the links to these stories and post them it will be helpful.
 
Thucydides said:
.................. reports that Europeans are starting to react violently against the "migrants".

In the first instance, the largest mosque in the UK was set on fire, apparently by two British youths, suffering extensive damage. In the second instance, a former gym in Germany was torched when it was being prepared to accommodate up to 400 people. the town will now not be able to accept any new people.

If anyone can find the links to these stories and post them it will be helpful.

London mosque on fire:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/27/teenagers-arrested-arson-south-london-mosque-fire-morden

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-34369710

German protests:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34050393

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/refugee-crisis-germany-1.3225663

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dresden-riots-protesters-in-germany-attack-refugee-buses-shouting-foreigners-out-10467287.html


Finns blockage buses of refugees: 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/refugee-finland-demonstrators-kkk-1.3243195

http://www.dw.com/en/protesters-form-human-wall-against-refugees-at-finnish-swedish-border/a-18724593

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/finnish-protest-throws-rocks-and-launch-fireworks-at-refugees-and-at-least-one-dresses-in-kkk-garb

France's Marine Le Pen wades in 14 Sep 2015:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a30_1442946771&comments=1#tefKytMMvSiJfGYR.99
 
And a Slovakian town votes "no" to accepting refugees:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/a-small-slovakian-town-held-a-vote-on-accepting-refugees-97-percent-said-no/2015/09/28/1d29b1c0-6168-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html

A small town in Slovakia held a vote on accepting refugees; 97 percent said no.
Syrians arrive in Gabcikovo, Slovakia, this month. (Samuel Kubani/AFP/Getty Images)

By William Booth September 28  Follow @boothwilliam

GABCIKOVO, Slovakia — The next act of the European refugee crisis will unfold in little places like this one, where hundreds of Syrian war refugees are coming to live in a town that just voted by overwhelming numbers to oppose their stay.

Over the past few days, the first of 500 Syrian asylum seekers arrived to take up three-month residency at a state-run dormitory in the center of town.

Last month, as locals watched the news of streams of migrants winding their way through Europe, the town held a special referendum: 97 percent voted to oppose reopening the Slovak government’s refugee facility.

“We’re not haters,”said Zoltan Jakus, one of the organizers of the vote. “But I think this will end badly.”

With the refugee crisis escalating, European Union leaders last week approved a plan to spread 120,000 asylum seekers across 28 nations on the continent, over the objections of Central European countries. Hungary, Romania, the Czech Republic and Slovakia voted against the measure, a rare note of discord.

The residents of Gabcikovo wonder why wars and unrest thousands of miles away, involving Muslims, should be their business.

Gabcikovo is a town of 5,000 residents, where pensioners ride bicycles along quiet lanes lined with sturdy houses, many with overflowing gardens and ceramic gnomes, where everybody knows not only your name, but also what football club you support and what beer you drink. Most of them speak Hungarian and are Catholic.

The people of Gabcikovo say they are not cold-hearted or racist, but they are clearly worried, and many of them are asking the same questions as other Europeans who feel uneasy about the rising numbers of war refugees and economic migrants.

“Who are these people? Where do they come from? Why are they here?” said Daniel Koczkas, 27, who works at a coffee distributor and has lived in Gabcikovo all his life.

He waved a greeting to his mother, who was passing by on her bicycle. “We have no problem with different colors,” Koczkas said, “but we don’t know them.”

Breaking down Europe's migrant crisis

A look at the numbers behind the stream of refugees flowing into Europe as political leaders struggle to ease the burden. (Jason Aldag/The Washington Post)

One of his friends, Zoltan Zsemlye, 26, who works for Volkswagen, said, “If they’re all war refugees, why don’t they go to the Arab countries?”

The two friends asked how many refugees were being taken in by rich Arab states in the Persian Gulf.

They answered in unison, “None!”

A pair of young mothers pushing baby strollers, who declined to give their names, asked, “Would you want them in your home town?”

A vegetable vendor said she was worried that terrorists could slip in among the refugees.

Several local people expressed fears that on the nearby Danube, a massive dam and its hydroelectric plant would be a choice target.

“They flew airplanes into the twin towers. Why not blow up the dam?” the greengrocer said. She pointed to the church steeple. The water from the dam would be that high.

Other residents mentioned diseases — and the prospect of single young men walking the streets with no work and no money.

“They’re scared,” said Peter Borbely, a graphic artist from Hungary who works here. “It’s a small town, really a village. Very tight, maybe even closed to outsiders, even to me.”

He predicted that their fears would be allayed in time.

[Face to face with Europe’s refu­gee crisis]

Gabcikovo has a long history of hosting outsiders, but this time it is different. During the early 1990s, the dormitories at the Slovak Technical University sheltered people fleeing the Balkan wars.

The dormitories were used again to house other refugees and migrants seeking asylum in Europe.

“We had Chechens, Iranians, Sri Lankans, Romanians, you name it,” said Zoltan Jaros, an administrator of the dorms.

Jaros said that between 1993 and 2008, more than 5,000 refugees and migrants spent time at the campus dorms. “We have not had a single serious crime,” he said. “Maybe somebody stole an apple from a tree. But no rapes, assaults, robberies. Nothing.”

He stressed that the refugees are to be housed in dorms for only three or four months — that all are Syrians applying for asylum in Austria and that none will remain in Slovakia. (The E.U. plan calls for 800 refugees to be settled eventually in Slovakia, though Slovak leaders are opposed).

“Austria has run out of room, so we are being good neighbors and helping them,” Jaros said.

Vienna is just an hour away. “They’ll do all their paperwork there. We have nothing to do with that. Here they will sleep, eat, meet with social workers and study German, and if they are accepted, they will move to Austria.”

Jaros said he has been impressed with the first arrivals at the dormitories. “Very calm. Very orderly. You can see they are educated people. They speak better English than me,” he said.

He has no patience for townspeople who fear the newcomers will bring terror or disease.

“Some people think refugees eat little children for breakfast,” Jaros said. He shrugged and suggested that the complaints were naive or worse.

Basil and Etidal Taroun, pharmacists from the Syrian capital, arrived last week and were strolling through town, relieved and maybe a bit stunned at where they ended up. They were applying for asylum in Austria.

“It is nice for us,” Basil said. “It is okay.”

His wife was smiling and said they would never complain. They would share a bathroom and toilet with another family.

Their 2-year-old son was sucking on a lollipop. They would learn German quickly, Etidal promised. They would be given asylum, they were sure. They had made it here after 24 days on the road.

They did not know that the town had voted to oppose their stay.

Zoltan Jakus, who led the referendum effort, said that volunteers collected 1,881 signatures in just three days to stage the vote and that the “no” campaign won 97 percent of the ballots with a turnout of 60 percent.

“So that says something,” Jakus said.

“The village people are ready to help. We would provide clothes, food and help them on their way, but we don’t want them to live here,” he said.

“The fact that they are another ethnicity, another religion, another language, this will cause conflict,” Jakus said, adding that it was his impression, from media reports, that the Arabs are quick to anger.

“They like to protest,” he said. “Maybe they will want to fight.”

He said villagers wondered where the Muslims would pray.

“We have no mosques here,” he said. “I don’t know if there is a single mosque in all Slovakia. You see? That is the problem.”


Gergo Saling contributed to this report.
 
According to friends in Germany there have been demands that church bells not be rung as they serve to remind them that they are in a Christian land.  No comments regarding prayer call from the neighbourhood mosque however.  Butcher shops with pork in the windows were asked to put up screens and outdoor tables at the pubs were frowned upon.  Even Octoberfest came under attack.  So no, they aren't content with your normal resettlement assistance.  They wasn't their homeland rules established wherever they settle.
 
YZT580 said:
According to friends in Germany there have been demands that church bells not be rung as they serve to remind them that they are in a Christian land. 

Don't believe everything you hear.  The Church Bells are still ringing.  Every hour on the hour, and every fifteen minutes. 
 
I said demands not compliance.  I don't expect that Octoberfest celebrations were curtailed much either.
 
George Wallace said:
The problem with these migrants (NOT those that are sponsored by family members.) is that they are not happy with what is being given to them and are inclined to wander off the environs that are set up for their administration

Also smashing stuff, setting stuff on fire and rioting.


Housing these refugees, many of whom probably have sketchy pasts,  on military bases is absolutely brilliant.

Bases outside of major urban areas are already packed full of people and often feel crowded. Adding thousands more will only help.  I can see crime levels plummeting to an all time low too.


http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/260393/muslim-migrants-increase-crime-germany-65-daniel-greenfield
    A mass brawl occurred between refugees from Afghanistan and Albania. Some 60 refugees went after one another in the camp in the Wilhelmsburg district on Tuesday evening. Some were armed with iron bars, also witnesses had testified that a refugee had a firearm, a police spokesman said.

    In Lower Saxony in Braunschweig there was also an altercation between 300 to 400 refugees between Algerians and Syrians from a dispute over stolen goods.

    In the brawl in Hamburg five refugees were injured, one got a wound in his arm and had to be hospitalized. Whether they were stabbed, was initially unclear. The police had deployed a large contingent on site to separate the warring Afghans and Albanians, said the spokesman. 30 police cars were in use.

    After police managed to stop the fight, a tent was set on fire. Two people were poisoned by smoke. It was unclear whether there was a link between the arson and the fight. According to the police spokesman, the  odor of drugs was detected.

    According to statistics from the Federal Criminal Police vedomstva Germany the number of offenses committed by asylum seekers has increased dramatically. Given the large number of immigrants, it is not surprising. In 2013 it was registered 32 495 crimes, and in 2014 - already 53 890. A particularly sharp increase in thefts (from 9421 to 16066) attacks with bodily injury (from 5172 to 8994)
 
YZT580 said:
I said demands not compliance.  I don't expect that Octoberfest celebrations were curtailed much either.

The "Oktoberfest" speil was all an unknown blogger in the UK, with not known identity, who raised a bogus "demand".  It has NO credible authenticity.
 
Would we be so accommodating


German Village of 102 Braces for 750 Asylum Seekers

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/world/europe/german-village-of-102-braces-for-750-asylum-seekers.html?src=me&_r=0

 
Another fence goes up.....

Shared as per usual....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/migrant-refugee-slovenia-fence-1.3313615

Slovenia on Wednesday began erecting a razor-wire fence along its border with Croatia to control the influx of migrants, as European and African leaders gathered in Malta to seek long-term solutions to the flow of people making their way across Europe.

A convoy of army trucks carrying the fence and bulldozers arrived in Veliki Obrez Wednesday morning, and soldiers began unwinding the spirals of wire and stretching them along the Slovenian side of the river Sutla that divides the two countries. Other units were later seen further southwest, near the town of Gibina, also stretching the spirals of wire and stacking them on top of each other.

Prime Minister Miro Cerar said a day earlier that his country expects about 30,000 new migrants to reach Slovenia's borders. His government fears that if neighbouring Austria restricts their entry, the number of people that would be stranded in Slovenia would be too much for the tiny Alpine state to handle.

"If we don't act on time," Cerar said, "this could cause a humanitarian catastrophe on the territory of Slovenia." He said the "technical barrier" will be used to direct the refugee flow, not to close the 670-kilometre border as was the case in Hungary.

Nearly 170,000 migrants have crossed Slovenia since mid-October when Hungary closed its border with Croatia with a razor-wire fence and the flow was redirected to Slovenia.

Interior Minister Vesna Gyorkos Znidar said these measures "are not popular, but they are necessary."

More on the link


Cheers
Larry
 
I think Germany has a good idea there

Germany imposes surprise curbs on Syrian refugees

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/germany-imposes-surprise-curbs-on-syrian-refugees/ar-CC2Bcm

 
Back
Top