SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)

[Halifax Tar]

Interesting times indeed.  I fear for my children and future grandchildren. 

 

[Zoomie]

Winnipeg South is ready and waiting - chain link fences included.

 

[captloadie]

The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society. 

 

[jollyjacktar]

The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divide them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

I wasn't concerned that any of the boat people "might" be sleeper agents, or want to commit acts I would consider terrorism when they arrived here.  The only concerns I had with the boat people was in getting into a traffic accident with one.  There were a few examples of them stabbing the poor bastard they collided with.  And their winter driving capabilities were down right scary for the first winter or two.  Otherwise, they've fitted in nicely. 

I have no doubt there will be those members of the Syrian refugees that will make outstanding, excellent immigrants and can bring things to the table for the benefit of this country.  I have no issues with these people coming and quite frankly welcome their arrival as we do need immigrants.  I want the immigrants who come to this country will be of a benefit to this country, not a security concern or drain on resources.

 

[Strike]

The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

The difference is that this migrant group is not solely from Syria, which is the cause du jour of the incoming government when it comes to refugees, but from many other countries as well looking to specifically country shop. Go talk to your int shop.  I'm sure they can show you the numbers.

On top of that, when the Vietnamese and Kosovars came during their respective crisis, it was carefully managed and very specific to those countires.  Because of the country shopping going on, people are worried that the same thing is going to happen here and, until they are shown otherwise with a set plan that will ensure the refugees being accepted are indeed from Syria, that is what they will believe.

Lack of information tends to breed fear. 

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses. Did you all have these same fears when we brought in the Vietnamese 30 years ago? Were you not scared they would begin slowly infiltrate the political system and bring about a new communist state?

Has anyone done the research on who these people are that are leaving Syria? The masses are people who are trying to escape the war and terror of their homeland. Sure, maybe they are economic migrants trying to find a better life for themselves and their families, but so were the Irish, who also were bringing their own religious beliefs with them.

25,000 individuals would make up a minuscule portion of the Canadian population as a whole. Even if they all came in and went on welfare, if you divied them up and put 2500 in each province, their demand on social assistance programs would be negligible to those who are already on welfare. More than likely though, a large majority of them might actually become gainfully employed, some might even be professionals who would improve Canadian society.

I agree completely.  I've got no problem letting refugees in to the country, I just want to make sure it's done properly and not in some sort of halfassed fashion for short term political points.  I would even consider letting some stay with me. 

I would like to see some smaller communities take these people on.  I think showing them some good old rural Canadian hospitality would be a good introduction to the country.  Would definitely be preferable to throwing them in to an urban ghetto. 

A society should be judged on how it treats the vagrants and least fortunate members.

 

[captloadie]

I agree completely.  I've got no problem letting refugees in to the country, I just want to make sure it's done properly and not in some sort of halfassed fashion for short term political points.  I would even consider letting some stay with me. 

I would like to see some smaller communities take these people on.  I think showing them some good old rural Canadian hospitality would be a good introduction to the country.  Would definitely be preferable to throwing them in to an urban ghetto.  

A society should be judged on how it treats the vagrants and least fortunate members.

I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted portion. Find smaller communities that can both accept and support these family units. How many small communities have those one or two Vietnamese families that make you wonder, "how in the hell did they end up here running a variety store?"

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Personnaly, I have no problems taking in 25,000 real refugees.

My problem is the following: If you take them in hurriedly on the basis that you will do the proper screening after they get into Canada, then can someone tell me HOW and WHERE do you return the ones that fail security screening?

And BTW, captloadie, spreading them evenly on welfare to all provinces, so 2500 per province would bring at least one province's system, PEI, to a breaking point.

 

[dapaterson]

Personnaly, I have no problems taking in 25,000 real refugees.

My problem is the following: If you take them in hurriedly on the basis that you will do the proper screening after they get into Canada, then can someone tell me HOW and WHERE do you return the ones that fail security screening?

And BTW, captloadie, spreading them evenly on welfare to all provinces, so 2500 per province would bring at least one province's system, PEI, to a breaking point.

Well, from what I can understand from the soon to be former prime minister, we have to take an expansive view of PEI and include the Ottawa suburb of Kanata (population 80K) in any discussion of PEI...


(The fallacy of keeping PEI, NS, NB and NL as four distinct provinces is another issue that needs to be addressed; the combined population is low, while the political influence at the federal level is grossly oversized.  And the resulting ongoing federal pandering with EI rules etc has resulted in today's reality in Atlantic Canada)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Aiming at sacred cows is sure to create a visceral response. Highly unlikely they will offended such well trained voters.

 

[dimsum]

I wholeheartedly agree with the highlighted portion. Find smaller communities that can both accept and support these family units. How many small communities have those one or two Vietnamese families that make you wonder, "how in the hell did they end up here running a variety store?"

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups.

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places? 

 

[Jed]

Well, from what I can understand from the soon to be former prime minister, we have to take an expansive view of PEI and include the Ottawa suburb of Kanata (population 80K) in any discussion of PEI...


(The fallacy of keeping PEI, NS, NB and NL as four distinct provinces is another issue that needs to be addressed; the combined population is low, while the political influence at the federal level is grossly oversized.  And the resulting ongoing federal pandering with EI rules etc has resulted in today's reality in Atlantic Canada)

So to be fair and unbiased, if the current wishes of the Atlantic area wish to follow Liberal policies and accept their  entitlements ala Dingwall, they should be willing to accept their apportionment of the incoming Syrian Refugees. (based on provincial apportionment, of course)

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places?

They wouldn't settle there but the refugee camps could be set up there and this would represent their initial taste of Canada.  A lot of smaller towns have declining population and have plenty of suitable facilities for this sort of thing (old schools, unused arenas, etc).  A refugee centre could be set up in fairly short order, the military could support this sort of initiative and it would be a good way to get the Army Reserves involved as well.  I would lean on the Army Reserves heavily in this instance as many Reserve Units have deep connections within their respective communities and know which strings to pull to make things happen.

The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self.  They would basically receive a subsidy in exchange for looking after the influx of refugees.  Teams of experts could also be surged in to these communities to provide a variety of social services. 

This idea also has an ulterior motive behind it.  This sort of campaign could serve as a very powerful counter-narrative for us to use against our enemies (fundamentalists).  I see it as a sort of IO campaign conducted at the strategic level.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Have we got a deal for you

http://globalnews.ca/news/1483593/ghost-town-mysteries-the-30-year-slumber-of-kitsault-b-c/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Falls

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/07/15/bradian-bc-ghost-town_n_7805222.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

Maybe we could try to pluck out some medical staff from the groups of migrants, fast track their equivalencies (as opposed to the impossible system in place now) and co-locate them in areas where we settle the migrants.

1)  That's mostly up to the self-governing doctor groups out there.
2)  As a specialized sub-set of migrants, I'm guessing places would be happy to put up a doc and his/her family to treat NON-refugees in communities aching for an MD.

I'm thinking of a real life "Little Mosque on the Prairie" setups.

I remain optimistic, but I don't know if I'd be THAT optimistic ....

Could the authorities actually order the migrants to settle in rural places?

In previous waves of migration, Canada has said, "we have a job and a place to live for you at a gold mine in Northern Ontario", with a "no" leading to someone else being offered said job/slot.  That, though, was another time ....

A few factors to consider:
-  Are we moving people temporarily or long-term?  (temporary = OK in a smaller place without as many job prospects vs. long-term = need for higher chance of finding longer-term gainful employment)
-  Are we aiming to move them to be near folks already here from "the old country", or to have them learn "the Canadian way" via assimilation/acculturation "cold turkey"?
-  How many refugee/migrants are willing to move to a smaller centre with fewer resources?
-  How many small centres want to take on new folks?

The deal would need to be sweetened of course, perhaps every community handling the refugees would receive a large pot of Federal money, part of which would go towards the refugees and the rest could be used for other projects needed in the community it self. 

That, too, would affect the calculus considerably as well.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Oh my, what could possibly go wrong with the bit in yellow?

.... members of the outgoing government warn Trudeau will have a hard time meeting a promise to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by year-end.

By comparison, the United States, with nine times as many people as Canada, is aiming to take in at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year.

“He’s got to make sure that none of those 25,000 refugees are going to cause him any kind of security heartburn,” said Ian Brodie, Harper’s first chief of staff.

A person with direct knowledge of the file, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said officials at the immigration ministry had concluded that the only way to achieve the goal would be to airlift the refugees into Canada and then carry out mandatory health and security checks.

The source said the challenge with screening on Canadian soil is that even if some are rejected, it is hard to deport people once they are in the country.

Outgoing senior Conservative cabinet minister Tony Clement said the Trudeau pledge to bring them all in by year end was unrealistic.

“There’s no way to do that without incurring a lot of expense or alternatively having an impact on our safety and security, he said.

The second Liberal source conceded Trudeau might have to push back the Dec. 31 deadline, but would still bring in 25,000.

“If he has to say he’ll take an extra two or three months to make it happen, I don’t think anyone will think that’s unreasonable,” said the source ....

 

[Jed]

Oh my, what could possibly go wrong with the bit in yellow?

I guess it will be like that Tom Hanks movie and all these Refugees will have to live in the Airport facilities.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The longer this thread gets, the more and more it begins to sound like a bunch of people scared this influx will begin to "darken" the population and convert the masses.

Yea, what a bunch of racists  :nod:

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Except some of the people concerned are dark skinned and come from other countries. They realize that not everyone who comes in will be good for the country or community. In fact i just spent 1/2 hr talking to my dark skinned immigrant wife who is volunteering with a church to teach ESL. If you think "Us Canadians" are worried about unrestricted immigration, just ask a successful immigrant, you be surprised by their blunt response I think.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, here, an consultant's vote for Kapyong as a temporary home ....

The Kapyong Barracks is the perfect place to house up to 2,000 Syrian refugees according to a Winnipeg military expert.

Gary Solar is a retired Colonel and chief of operations at the Centre for Crime and Terrorism Studies in the United States.

He says the Barracks is a self-contained “village” with the buildings, living quarters and security measures already in place to make it an ideal temporary home for refugees.

However the structures have sat vacant for 11 years, meaning they’d be in need of major restorative work before they’d be suitable to live in.

But Solar still thinks the plan could work, “In some of the halls they could put people up in temporary accommodation while they worked to make the other buildings safe.”

Complicating things is the status of the Kapyong Barracks lands, with a potential deal for the property between Treaty 1 First Nations and the federal government on the horizon ....