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Suspect in bomb plot was Canadian soldier

armybuck041

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07 Jun 2006 06:25:16 EDT

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/07/wednesday-suspects.html

More details were emerging Wednesday about an alleged bomb plot in Ontario and about one of the suspects and his alleged plan to behead Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

As well, there were also new suggestions about how the suspects may have had international connections.

The lawyer for Steven Chand, also known as Abdul Shakur, said Tuesday that his client is accused of wanting to storm Parliament, behead the prime minister and attack a number of sites, including the CBC building in Toronto.

A newspaper report on Tuesday said Chand had been a member of the Royal Regiment of Canada, a reservist unit, and that he had been given weapons training.

Military confirms connection

The Toronto Star said the military confirmed, but downplayed, Chand's military connection.

"He spent a large portion of his time in the Canadian Forces on leave of absence," Cmdr. Denise Laviolette told the newspaper.

"It looks like he did not complete his military trade training," she added.

Chand joined the reserves in June 2000 and served until April 2004.

His lawyer said Tuesday the charges against him came in an eight-page synopsis.

"My client's alleged to have been part of a plot to blow up Parliament buildings in Canada, storm the CBC, take over the CBC, as well as, among other things, behead the prime minister," lawyer Gary Batasar said.

Allegedly inspired by al-Qaeda

Police allege the accused — 12 adults and five youths — were inspired by al-Qaeda and planned to make bombs to attack targets in Ontario. None of the allegations has been proven in court.

Elsewhere, the Times of London reported Wednesday that the 17 arrests in the Toronto area were actually linked to a much bigger international investigation.

"The arrest of 17 suspects, many of them teenagers, picked up in the suburbs of Toronto at the weekend is said to be the latest stage in dismantling a terrorist nexus," the Times reported in its online edition.

The report said the arrests came after a nine-month investigation.

"Intelligence agents in eight countries have patiently worked through a forest of e-mails and intercepted telephone calls."

Snipers inside and outside

As 15 of 17 suspects arrived in a Brampton court for a bail hearing on Monday, snipers could be seen on rooftops and heavily armed police officers were posted inside and outside the courtrooms.

Scores of media from both Canada and the United States lined up at the courthouse Tuesday to secure a spot inside. Family members of the suspects were met by throngs of reporters as they entered.

Defence lawyers asked that the bail hearings be postponed, saying they did not have enough time to prepare and had not seen the evidence against their clients.

The judge granted their requests, rescheduling most of the bail hearings to June 12, and the suspects were remanded into custody.

The lawyers also complained about a number of restrictions placed on their clients. They are in solitary confinement, under 24-hour surveillance and have been denied access to family members.

Donald McLeod said he and his colleagues have only been able to speak to their clients through Plexiglas and want private visits with them.

The defence lawyers also alleged that clients' rights were being violated because a guard in full riot gear was always present when a lawyer held a privileged conversation with a client.

They demanded the situation be changed or said they would go to court on June 12 to get a court order to be allowed to communicate with their clients in private.

All the adult suspects face terrorism-related charges:

The 12 men have been charged with knowingly participating, directly or indirectly, in the activity of a terrorist group.
Those charges relate to activities in Mississauga, Ont., Toronto and the Township of Ramara, which is located about 150 kilometres north of Toronto.
On Monday, six of the men were also charged with planning to cause a deadly explosion.
Three of the suspects have been charged with importing firearms and prohibited ammunition, and supplying prohibited weapons.
Ten of the men are charged with engaging in terrorism-related training. Residents in Ramara, a rural area north of Toronto, reported hearing gunshots from an area where men were seen dressed in camouflage gear.
As many as 400 police officers and security officials were involved in the series of raids in southern Ontario that led to the arrests on June 2 and June 3, in the largest operation carried out under the Anti-terrorism Act.

 
I hope this gives some pause to people who want to speed up Reserve recruiting by suspending or reducing security clearances.

Cheers
 
pbi said:
I hope this gives some pause to people who want to speed up Reserve recruiting by suspending or reducing security clearances.

Cheers

X2
 
Even more reason for our security clearances to be strict. Now because of this, perhaps even higher. 
 
I do not think the security clearence is in question here, I would say that the interview process would be able to suss this out much better.

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
I do not think the security clearence is in question here, I would say that the interview process would be able to suss this out much better.

dileas

tess

I'm not too sure about this. What questions would we ask him? "Are you an Islamic terrorist?" "Do you secretly harbour intentions of destroying Western society to restore Islam to its rightful place in the world?" "Do you buy large amounts of ammonium nitrate?"

I just can't see interviewing by a recruiter, who may or not be trained in detecting and assessing criminal tendencies, as any kind of replacement for a background check.

Cheers
 
Well...does this change the efforts to recruit more immigrants ::)
I agree with the ERC (as is, not a reduced standard) and the interview both being effective means for screening.

HL
 
I agree, I don' think the security check would have caught any of these guys...  A more in depth interview process might help recruiters "filter" out bad people but judging the qualtiy of people coming through the training system ( I see them firsthand), the recruiting centers are desperate!
 
Hot Lips said:
Well...does this change the efforts to recruit more immigrants ::)
I agree with the ERC (as is, not a reduced standard) and the interview both being effective means for screening.

HL

It's not about "immigrants"-Timothy McVeigh was a good ol' boy, and most of the people recently arrested in the GTA appear to have been born here. Most immigrants are not a problem, and if we are going to limit military service to WASPS, we are going out of business, fast. The issue is about criminal and terrorist intentions, not about country of origin.

Cheers
 
Uhm,

And what security check do we do to a young kid in Highschool born and raised her, that comes from a well to do family, as some of this kids have?

Or someone who converts after the fact and hears the rhetoric from the imam at the prayer group he attends, as one of the lead characters has, i.e the main character of the article?  How would the security check have stopped that?

So we now make it even stricter for people to get in?  I would think that there are many techniques already out there used by other recruiters of business, Police, etc that use the right questions, wouldn't you agree, that will garnish the answers needed to see if the candidtat is fit for the job.

I may be out of the loop, but are these types of psychological questions being asked now?  Tell me how the security check would have caught these perps?

dileas

tess
 
the 48th regulator said:
Uhm,

And what security check do we do to a young kid in Highschool born and raised her, that comes from a well to do family, as some of this kids have?

Or someone who converts after the fact and hears the rhetoric from the imam at the prayer group he attends, as one of the lead characters has, i.e the main character of the article?  How would the security check have stopped that?

So we now make it even stricter for people to get in?  I would think that there are many techniques already out there used by other recruiters of business, Police, etc that use the right questions, wouldn't you agree, that will garnish the answers needed to see if the candidtat is fit for the job.

+1  you try...but you don't get them all.
 
I'm pretty sure people like this just slip through the cracks, I mean how many can you name off the top of your head that were involved in criminal activities after joining the the Forces, that are good 'Ol boy's born and raised in Canada?

I can 3 just as I sit here.

no amount of questioning would have identified this individual, I'm not saying there were not indicators but everyone has indicators of something in their behaviour.
 
IMHO the jury is out on the actual proven value of psychological testing as a real guarantee of anything. Again IMHO its value in the case of anybody who has already formulated an intent, and is smart enough to avoid detection, is minimal.

But, I will grant you one thing: if a person joins the CF before they begin their criminal or terrorist associations, then no interview or background check will prove anything. This poses a particular concern with Res soldiers, since most of their life is lived away from any form of military control or scrutiny over their associations. Although you could argue that there isn't much real control exerted over those of us in the RegF either, at least we are subject to the Code of Service Discipline 24/7. Even that, howevre, has not prevented some pretty nasty criminal behavoiur and association by RegF people over the years.

The only method I can see is an improved link between civilian and military criminal intelligence services, and more frequent security reviews of serving people. The danger here of course is that the cohesion of  the CF could be badly damaged by "ethnic profiling".

Cheers
 
Hey I agree, we would have to madify it or mold it for the military,

But I do not agree tightening our security check, from the theme of the the posters on this site trying to get in, it already is a headache.

We knee jerk react and make it harder, forget about getting anyone willing to wait to get in.

dileas

tess
 
Slippery slope.

Ideally we want more muslins in the military - especially arabic and dari speakers.  BUT when you are having a war waged against you from islamic radicals - it does make the screening issue hard.
 
To be fair, there may be a reverse argument here, albeit a shaky one. By entering the CF, a person submits themselves to a much higher level of documentation, investigation and scrutiny than most Canadians. Although I still don't believe that any of that will guarantee detection of a terrorist-in-training, what it does is establish a pretty firm and comprehensive data bank on an individual. They are no longer just some unknown kid sliding through the shadows in their ethnic community: the "system" knows quite a bit about them.

Cheers
 
I’m with Tess here. I seriously doubt any changes/improvements in the security check or interview process would have caught this kid. As noted he was a middleclass teenager from the 905 burbs, when he applied for and joined the RRC. Gee kind of sounds like about oh what 95% of the troopies in the Toronto Garrison or at least when I was in.

Because his parents were immigrants we should have said no you can’t serve? Well based on the ethnic make up of my last rifle company (TorScots) had we gone that route, it that would have left um me and the CQMS as the only people in uniform. Most other units in the garrison IIRC were almost as diverse.

I am in no way advocating a lessening of any procedures in place now. We need to pre screen and remove anyone unsuitable for military service for physical, medical and or emotional/psychological reasons. However, I seriously doubt anything would have “caught” this kid as I doubt at the time he was a “militant terrorist” (presuming of course he is guilty of course) and most likely turned or was turned later.

Someone mentioned McVeigh, well we have another example closer to home. Brent Taylor the leader of the Direct Action/Squamish Five joined the militia in 1978 and stayed a couple of years, and incidentally unlike this kid completed his training. In his case it was obvious he did so deliberately to gain the weapons handling and other training he wanted to pursue his radical agenda. No one knew that when he wandered into the recruiting office at the armouries on Burrard St.  In hind sight no one noticed it until after he was released and went on to blowing up stuff either.

What is needed at all supervisory levels is perhaps some vigilance in presently serving soldiers. Just as we watch (or should watch) for other warning signs such as for drug and /or alcohol abuse, PTSD, spousal abuse, depression etc. perhaps keeping an eye out for any warning signs (if such can be noticed) re this may be an idea.

Remember the case of the 101st Airborne Sgt, who was a convert to some brand of fanatical radical Islam in Kuwait just before GW2 kicked off and who tried to frag his BHQ. Possibly he could have been caught before hand had someone known what to look for? How about M/Cpl Matchee?

What I find most worrisome about this is the fact that the usual suspects in the hand wringing brigade, the CBC and the Toronto Star are making such a big deal out of this rather tenacious connection. As noted his military service as such was minimal and doubtfully much of a factor in his later actions. Anyone of us with time in can equate just how effective a terrorist or potential terrorist would be who from the looks of it failed to complete his weekend BMQ at Fort York and most likely spent his “military career” either ED&T, (“Sorry Sgt. can’t make the weekend ex, I have a test.”) or NES.
 
Perhaps we should weigh all applicants.

If they weigh the same as a duck, they're a terrorist.

Just spitballin'.

faircop.jpg
 
I'm not quite sure that beefing up the security check could do to much, besides adding another six months to an already interminable recruiting process.

I think that what's implied here is twofold.

First the Reserves, and perhaps to some degrees the Regulars as well will always attract a few misfits. By that I don't mean (exclusively) freaks, just people who don't belong in the system.

The system however has this eerie way of weeding these people out. Think about it; how about the recruit course that starts with 70 and finishes with 35? How about the fanatical young 2Lt that never makes captain because he's always being berated by the old man for demeaning the troops? How about the angry MCpl that never makes WO because he doesn't get that Pathfinder course?

People come and people go. Mr Chand came and he went. He did not fit in. He was not a soldier. All good natured ribbing of the Royals aside, he was clearly not up to the Royal's standard. As much as this guy said he wanted to be a soldier, Cdr La Violette's remarks are telling. He wanted to be a soldier but did, it seems, not regularly go on FTX and he did not take a summer to finish (presumably) his SQ, so despite all his desires he lacked the commitment (read: discipline) to succeed.

I've seen a hundred guys like that fly through FYA and AA in the last fifteen years and I'll see another hundred before they throw me out.

No need for hand wringing on this one. Least wise, not on our part.

Second, as for the Globe and it's headline this morning.... Jeez I remember when the Globe and Mail was a really good paper and not just some sensationalist rag trying to pander to Canadians' fears by using the most tenuous of threads to connect the CF and some culture of lawless violence.
 
probum non poenitet said:
Perhaps we should weigh all applicants.

If they weigh the same as a duck, they're a terrorist.

Just spitballin'.

faircop.jpg

Ok that was funny

What about a pre-employment polygraph?

Most police forces are using it why not the military.

The MP's have poly techs in each region, train some more and use them for pre-employment.  Have the poly techs write the questions for the recuriturs and train them at what to look for.

 
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