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These are the stories that make you smile 
There are good guys (and gals) out there.
There are good guys (and gals) out there.
Stolen, found/returned medals (merged)
- Thread starter Grunt_031
- Start date
These are the stories that make you smile There are good guys (and gals) out there.
I don't know how to take this comment? I hope that you don't mean that Members such as Rob are in the minority....because if that's the case I take great offence to it.
I should preface this with the comment that I am a tad sensitive about this subject due to the daily lambasting that cops (Not just the RCMP) get by the media. I can assure you that 99.999% of us put our gear on daily and go forth to do good.
Occasionally things do go off the rails, but decisions made by cops in nanoseconds are then dissected by lawyers over a period of months if not years. We are only human, but we are the humans that that are out there in the rain or the cold responding to hang up 911 phonecalls, domestic assaults, rollover motor vehicle accidents, gang shootings in progress (Or all of the above in a single shift!)
EW if this isn't what you meant by your comment then I apologise for the rant.
Noneck
I don't know how to take this comment? I hope that you don't mean that Members such as Rob are in the minority....because if that's the case I take great offence to it.
I should preface this with the comment that I am a tad sensitive about this subject due to the daily lambasting that cops (Not just the RCMP) get by the media. I can assure you that 99.999% of us put our gear on daily and go forth to do good.
Occasionally things do go off the rails, but decisions made by cops in nanoseconds are then dissected by lawyers over a period of months if not years. We are only human, but we are the humans that that are out there in the rain or the cold responding to hang up 911 phonecalls, domestic assaults, rollover motor vehicle accidents, gang shootings in progress (Or all of the above in a single shift!)
EW if this isn't what you meant by your comment then I apologise for the rant.
Noneck
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If I may be so bold as to presume, I think what EW meant by her statement is that in the news we hear so much about the "bad" types (eg: military member arrested on child porn possession) that it's nice (much nicer) to hear the good stories.
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Well noneck...how you took my comment was the EXACT opposite of what I meant.
PMedMoe hit the nail on the head.
Let me clarify, It is NICE to hear stories with a NICE outcome and that the majority of police officers, who I KNOW to be NICE guys (and gals). But we don't hear about it as often as when something bad happens.
Hey man, I hear you, I am married to a soldier, the on going joke in our house that if he does something wrong, no matter how small, or whatever in life he accomplishes after the military, the headline will always read: CANADIAN SOLDIER gets caught jaywalking or whatever it is....
Apology accepted ;D
PMedMoe hit the nail on the head.
Let me clarify, It is NICE to hear stories with a NICE outcome and that the majority of police officers, who I KNOW to be NICE guys (and gals). But we don't hear about it as often as when something bad happens.
Hey man, I hear you, I am married to a soldier, the on going joke in our house that if he does something wrong, no matter how small, or whatever in life he accomplishes after the military, the headline will always read: CANADIAN SOLDIER gets caught jaywalking or whatever it is....
Apology accepted ;D
Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act
Lost medals returned to veteran
Aedan Helmer / Ottawa Sun
http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/08/14/lost-medals-returned-to-veteran
After spending a half-century apart, a decorated Canadian war hero was reunited Sunday with a part of his heritage he thought was lost forever.
John Rawson “Ross” Kennedy Stewart served his country in the Royal Canadian Naval Volunteer Reserve, patrolling the Atlantic aboard the HMCS Regina, among other warships, from Dec. 1940 until the war’s end, rising to the rank of lieutenant commander.
A set of five service medals — the Atlantic Star, Africa Star, Canadian Volunteer Service Medal, 1939-1945 War Medal and Canadian Forces Decoration — vanished nearly 50 years ago, lost in the ether, until they resurfaced right in Stewart’s back yard.
Doing some research on his 90-year-old grandfather, Scott Stewart ran the veteran’s name through Google, and the first hit came back to a military memorabilia dealer based in Orleans.
There, meticulously indexed amid a catalogue of new arrivals — graded by condition and priced accordingly — was the missing set of medals bearing the name J.R.K. Stewart, listed in “very fine” condition and selling for $650.
“When I heard, I said ‘We have to get them back.’ I don’t care about the money,” said Etta Stewart, 83, from the Aylmer home she shares with Ross.
A flurry of e-mails and phone calls later, and Jim Godefroy, curator of the Orleans-based Vimy Militaria, hand-delivered the medals to their rightful owner on Sunday.
Godefroy never actually had possession of the medals, and explained to the Stewart family the set was being sold on consignment from a private seller in Montreal.
And while the entire Stewart family is pleased to see the medals returning home, the whole affair has left them sour.
“I was really upset when I found out (the medals) were on the Internet, because it makes it look like we’re selling them,” said Etta Stewart. “Somebody got a hold of them — I don’t know how — but when somebody’s name is on the medals, you would hope (the seller) would try to get them back to the person they belonged to.”
Making matters worse, the package advertised on the site at vimy.ca included Stewart’s service record, which suggests the soldier is deceased.
According to David Thomson, the so-called “Medal Detector” based in St. George, Ont., military service records are only unsealed 20 years after the veteran dies.
“When it comes to our veterans, it’s a debt we can never repay, period. Then we turn around and we see people profiteering from their valour,” said Thomson. “The medals are a testament to their service, to a lot of collectors, they’re not (memorabilia). But in this case, it looks like a happy ending.”
The Stewarts know how the story began, and now that the ending is written, they’re left wondering about the in-between.
When Stewart was stationed at HMCS Donnacona in Montreal in the early 1960s, he entrusted a young serviceman with the medals — a practice frowned upon in military circles — for the man’s wedding day.
“He returned my father’s dress sword — he cut the wedding cake with it and neglected to clean it, so you can imagine what condition it was in — but the medals never came back,” recalled son Rob Stewart.
Ross Stewart tracked down the serviceman in Thornhill, who claimed he had mailed the medals back to the military base, setting off years of fruitless searching that ended two weeks ago with the online discovery.
“We made it pretty clear to (Vimy Militaria) that we weren’t going to let it go, we were going to do whatever we needed to get those medals back,” said Rob Stewart
Lost medals returned to veteran
Aedan Helmer / Ottawa Sun
http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/08/14/lost-medals-returned-to-veteran
After spending a half-century apart, a decorated Canadian war hero was reunited Sunday with a part of his heritage he thought was lost forever.
John Rawson “Ross” Kennedy Stewart served his country in the Royal Canadian Naval Volunteer Reserve, patrolling the Atlantic aboard the HMCS Regina, among other warships, from Dec. 1940 until the war’s end, rising to the rank of lieutenant commander.
A set of five service medals — the Atlantic Star, Africa Star, Canadian Volunteer Service Medal, 1939-1945 War Medal and Canadian Forces Decoration — vanished nearly 50 years ago, lost in the ether, until they resurfaced right in Stewart’s back yard.
Doing some research on his 90-year-old grandfather, Scott Stewart ran the veteran’s name through Google, and the first hit came back to a military memorabilia dealer based in Orleans.
There, meticulously indexed amid a catalogue of new arrivals — graded by condition and priced accordingly — was the missing set of medals bearing the name J.R.K. Stewart, listed in “very fine” condition and selling for $650.
“When I heard, I said ‘We have to get them back.’ I don’t care about the money,” said Etta Stewart, 83, from the Aylmer home she shares with Ross.
A flurry of e-mails and phone calls later, and Jim Godefroy, curator of the Orleans-based Vimy Militaria, hand-delivered the medals to their rightful owner on Sunday.
Godefroy never actually had possession of the medals, and explained to the Stewart family the set was being sold on consignment from a private seller in Montreal.
And while the entire Stewart family is pleased to see the medals returning home, the whole affair has left them sour.
“I was really upset when I found out (the medals) were on the Internet, because it makes it look like we’re selling them,” said Etta Stewart. “Somebody got a hold of them — I don’t know how — but when somebody’s name is on the medals, you would hope (the seller) would try to get them back to the person they belonged to.”
Making matters worse, the package advertised on the site at vimy.ca included Stewart’s service record, which suggests the soldier is deceased.
According to David Thomson, the so-called “Medal Detector” based in St. George, Ont., military service records are only unsealed 20 years after the veteran dies.
“When it comes to our veterans, it’s a debt we can never repay, period. Then we turn around and we see people profiteering from their valour,” said Thomson. “The medals are a testament to their service, to a lot of collectors, they’re not (memorabilia). But in this case, it looks like a happy ending.”
The Stewarts know how the story began, and now that the ending is written, they’re left wondering about the in-between.
When Stewart was stationed at HMCS Donnacona in Montreal in the early 1960s, he entrusted a young serviceman with the medals — a practice frowned upon in military circles — for the man’s wedding day.
“He returned my father’s dress sword — he cut the wedding cake with it and neglected to clean it, so you can imagine what condition it was in — but the medals never came back,” recalled son Rob Stewart.
Ross Stewart tracked down the serviceman in Thornhill, who claimed he had mailed the medals back to the military base, setting off years of fruitless searching that ended two weeks ago with the online discovery.
“We made it pretty clear to (Vimy Militaria) that we weren’t going to let it go, we were going to do whatever we needed to get those medals back,” said Rob Stewart
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Incorrect. For post WW1 records, unless you can prove that a service member is deceased for 20 years, you can receive a censored version of the records, with any personal information on the individual or next of kin blacked out.
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Sylwester, I moved your question here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102167.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/102167.0.html
It's great to hear about the return of these medals. I received my grandfather's France and Germany Star a few years back and tried to locate the other originals with no luck. Luckily, after a lot of paperwork, I was able to get replacements for the CVSM with clasp, 39-45 Star & the War Medal 1939-45 from the government but the originals would have been nice to find. I was able to get the Memorial cross from my grandmother. To see websites like below really bug me. Why are these being sold and why aren't they being returned or a monument of sorts for made from them?
http://www.militarymedals.ca/index.cfm/fuseaction/productDetail/productID/871
I was under the impression selling these was illegal, guess I was wrong.
As for records, you can go to the National Archive in Ottawa and access uncensored documents if the person has been deceased for over 20 yrs. I was just there and photographed my grandfather's entire Air Force & Army military records. A great find!
http://www.militarymedals.ca/index.cfm/fuseaction/productDetail/productID/871
I was under the impression selling these was illegal, guess I was wrong.
As for records, you can go to the National Archive in Ottawa and access uncensored documents if the person has been deceased for over 20 yrs. I was just there and photographed my grandfather's entire Air Force & Army military records. A great find!
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Skinner D said:
It is not illegal to buy or sell medals. Medals awarded to a soldier become his personal property, with which he can do as he pleases, including sell them. When they pass to the soldier's heirs, they also have legal ownership and can sell them if they so wish.
The truth is that not everyone feels an attachment to medals in their family or to the soldiers or the history they represent. Thankfully there are people who appreciate them, value them and are willing to buy them to remember and research the recipients. Without those willing collectors, those medals that found no interest in their own families would as likely have been discarded as sent to Museums.
Attached are two examples of family medals being sold on eBay.
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It turns my stomach that some asshat makes such lucrative deals, on things like medals. You have to wonder how they were obtained and if obtained from places like pawn shops, flea markets, etc etc, if any of them were originally illegally obtained.
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S.Stewart said:
Why don't you do some research and look for answers to your questions instead of making gross assumptions that fit your prejudices?
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Michael O'Leary said:
I didn't say the person who runs that site gathers said medals illegally. Reread . I said they were potentially being gathered from places where the medals originally ended up illegally (theft not that it's illegal to sell them) And yes my opinion is and I stand by it, is that I hardly think running a site where you are selling off someone`s medals for 300 plus dollars a pop is preserving military history, it is simply making cash, because if it wasn't not profit in it, chances are it wouldn't exist. I have war medals in the family, I personally would have words for any family member that decided to sell them for cash, something just disrespectful about it.
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S.Stewart said:
It doesn't matter what your opinion of your family medals might be, apparently not all families through history have felt the same way. Medals, no matter what any of us believe they stand for, are property, and subject to all the rights of property held by their owners. Your gross assumptions that a dealer in medals is simply a profiteer or that they are selling goods which somehow "originally ended up illegally" are narrow-minded prejudices that you carry simply because the legal trade in medals doesn't fit your preferred opinion.
Would you rather families threw them away when someone didn't want them any more? Or when the last heir dies? The Canadian War Museum probably has thousands of medals in its collection, go through the galleries, you can count the few dozen groups on display. How a many more would you like to see in their vaults, never to be seen again? Medals dealers and collectors are not criminals, nor are they trading in illegally gotten goods and yes, most of them actually do believe in the history and the men behind those medals. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it "disrespectful."
Please explain to me how someone paying hundreds or thousands of dollars to own a medal or medal group which they research and take pride in because they are helping to preserve the recipients' memory is disrespectful.
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Some previous threads on this subject:
Collectors are Scum of the Earth says MP Peter Stoffer
NDP MP Revives Medal Selling Ban Idea
Medals and eBay
Medal and Awards Research
Collectors are Scum of the Earth says MP Peter Stoffer
NDP MP Revives Medal Selling Ban Idea
Medals and eBay
Medal and Awards Research
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Michael O'Leary said:
I never said anything said merchant was doing was illegal, and some which are 30 bucks a pop are hardly thousands of dollars. What's the difference between them sitting in someone's home, vs in a vault not much, little sunlight from the window now and then. What happens when that person croaks, what the cycle continues, it ends up in a museum. End result is basically same difference, if the guy running the site didn't want to profit they wouldn't be sold for what they were, each to there own doesn't mean I have to agree with it. You can sell anything that is your property, I am sure legally if I could sell an urn full of ashes on ebay, there is some idiot who would buy some veteran's ashes (people are strange) but just cause you can sell something doesn't make it ethical. I am for preserving history, don't get me wrong I just don't necessarily agree with being able to buy a brand new car while doing it. I mean really honest question would you be okay say down the road you became say dementia ridden, basically couldn't care for yourself had to be moved out of your home, and your family cleared out your stuff, they didn't want your medals figured you are on your way out they have power of care and power of attorney and you wouldn't know the difference anyway, you would really agree that it's no big deal and be okay if they sold them on ebay to some random somewhere, because that is somehow preserving history, and then they you know taking the money and going out to dinner, buying a new tv?
Some people yes are in the game to preserve history, lots are in the game to make a buck. It's one of those debates that have varied views depending on which way you want to look at it.
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S.Stewart said:
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. And nice that you can so easily compare a the selling of a man's medals to selling his cremation remains to "some idiot" or the purchase of a new car.
S.Stewart said:
If my family found no interest in any medals awarded to me, I would much rather see them in the hands of an interested collector who would research my service history and keep them together than see them disappear into a museum basement or tossed out from disinterest. If nothing else, from the hands of a collector they can potentially come back to an interesting descendant in a future generation, from a museum that would not likely be a possibility. Your trivializing of the transaction and its meaning does not cheapen the intrinsic value of the medals as historic artifacts or the value placed on them by collectors.
So tell me, you are the current guardian of the medals you hold, how are you going to guarantee no future generation sells them?
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I don't have them, the medals are with that persons children, family members of mine. I have no control over them. I am not saying collectors should be stopped, you choose to purchase medals off ebay and you want to preserve them, go for it. I do have issues with people who are just peddlers, buying and reselling at inflated prices to me that doesn't scream care for much except lining one's pocket. By some idiot I was referring not to those who purchase medals, rather one who would have the gall to purchase remains. (I would never put remains on the ebay, some I am sure are callous enough to) I might part with family medals (if i had control of them) to someone who I knew would care for them if I saw no history in them etc, but knowing what they are(we all learn it in school) even if I didn't want them I don't think I could charge someone 200 dollars a piece it just seems strange to profit off something like that. Handing them off to a collector etc is different than handing them off to someone who is just going to peddle them. To me it's not like peddling antiques or old paintings.
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S.Stewart said:
It's so nice to have your permission to continue. Thank you.
S.Stewart said:
The value of anything is set by the market - supply and demand, and the perceived value established by the competition among possible purchasers. What you perceive to be an "inflated value" may be the assessed worth of the item by many dealers and collectors with cumulative decades of experience. Items, of any sort, which someone is attempting to sell at actual "inflated prices" do not sell to rational purchasers. How then, do you differentiate between honest dealers and profiteering "peddlers"? Is it the prices they charge, based on having no knowledge of the items when you make your determination? Or is it the profit margin you believe they are achieving? If you allow that someone like me can buy medals, how do you choose to condemn those who might sell them?
S.Stewart said:
Just to put this red herring to bed: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/remains.html
You are free to do as you please with your heritage.
People are very happy to find their lost medals, in fact there are medal "lost and found" sites that exist.
So there is nothing wrong with buying and selling medals for profit
Worse is the manner in which the young 'serviceman' returned the sword and "forgot (?)" the medals.
Such disrespect.
Was he a Wedding Walt ?
Wearing another mans sword and medals.....what else ?
People are very happy to find their lost medals, in fact there are medal "lost and found" sites that exist.
So there is nothing wrong with buying and selling medals for profit
Worse is the manner in which the young 'serviceman' returned the sword and "forgot (?)" the medals.
Such disrespect.
Was he a Wedding Walt ?
Wearing another mans sword and medals.....what else ?
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