Status on Victoria-class Submarines?

[IN HOC SIGNO]

If they were in drydock it wouldn't have been so much a problem
I believe one of the subs (Chicoutimi ?) had it's ballast tanks filled with seawater...

They were in the water. From the folks that know what they are talking about down in the Sub Sqn I am told that this is a great boat. we're having to spend more in bringing them up to snuff than originally thought but they have a great capability. In a recent ex one of them got very close to the HVU (a carrier) undetected....

 

[Cronicbny]

They were in the water. From the folks that know what they are talking about down in the Sub Sqn I am told that this is a great boat. we're having to spend more in bringing them up to snuff than originally thought but they have a great capability. In a recent ex one of them got very close to the HVU (a carrier) undetected....

IHS, I can't help but whole heartedly agree. Yes, it's a huge pain in the a$$. Yes, it's taking a long time. Yes, it's costing us a ton of cash. In the end, we will have (arguably) the most capable diesel submarine in the world... all that and we'll be firing MK48's! I think the capability (both of the sub itself and the outrageous benefits to training our own fleet in ASW) are priceless.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

IHS, I can't help but whole heartedly agree. Yes, it's a huge pain in the a$$. Yes, it's taking a long time. Yes, it's costing us a ton of cash. In the end, we will have (arguably) the most capable diesel submarine in the world... all that and we'll be firing MK48's! I think the capability (both of the sub itself and the outrageous benefits to training our own fleet in ASW) are priceless.

Are you going to volunteer for subs?? I see you are at Venture now.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Here's a comparison on the specs between the Scorpene and our Victoria's for anybody who is interested

Scorpene
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/scorpene/specs.html

Victoria
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/ssk_victoria/specs.html

Hard to tell, but the Victoria seems to offer a slight increase in range, patrol endurance, the 214's also seem to be close in spec's. In a perfect world we could have tagged onto the their assembly line and gotten some very modern subs, however that would have never happened due to the politic's of the time. The Victoria's were likley the best they could get all things considered. When people talk about why we bought 2nd hand subs, I respond that we always have done so. Hell even BC bought 2nd hand subs from Chile!

 

[Cronicbny]

Are you going to volunteer for subs?? I see you are at Venture now.

It's not out of the question. I'm still a SHAD though, and would like to spend some more time on the KINGSTON class before going over to the dark side.

 

[Navalgazer]

For those interested, Chicoutimi should be arriving at Victoria within the next few days. The following link shows her being transferred out of Halifax on board the Hern.

www.shipspotting.com/search.php?query=hmcs+chicoutimi&action=results

 

[Sub Standard]

For those that are interested Chicoutimi is firmly on the Ground in Esquimalt  (quite literally) for those interested in Pics the Times Colonist has a good Photo Gallery of the off load.

http://www.timescolonist.com/Photo+gallery+HMCS+Chicoutimi+arrives+refit+Esquimalt/1570366/story.html

 

[gwp]

When people talk about why we bought 2nd hand subs, I respond that we always have done so. Hell even BC bought 2nd hand subs from Chile!

Missinformation - CC1 and CC2 were brand new boats, built for Chile but Chile was not able to meet the payment so B.C. picked them up from the Seattle shipyard on the eve of the First World War.

http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/resource_pages/coastal_defence/subs.html

 

[Sailorwest]

For those that are interested Chicoutimi is firmly on the Ground in Esquimalt  (quite literally) for those interested in Pics the Times Colonist has a good Photo Gallery of the off load.

http://www.timescolonist.com/Photo+gallery+HMCS+Chicoutimi+arrives+refit+Esquimalt/1570366/story.html

That is kind of interesting. They placed CHICOUTIMI on the jetty instead of into the drydock. Will they need to bring back the Hern, once the refit/repairs are complete in order to get the boat into the water? I suppose VICTORIA is still in the Esquimalt drydock and Vic Ships was not prepared to tie up their drydock for two years.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Perhaps they are betting on a rise in sea level due to "Climate Change", it's an indication of how long they expect it to be in refit!    >

 

[Sailorwest]

Perhaps they are betting on a rise in sea level due to "Climate Change", it's an indication of how long they expect it to be in refit!    >

I had never thought of that. I guess that would be representative of West Coast thinking.  ;D

 

[Navalgazer]

In 2012, when or if Chicoutimi is ready to get wet again, Vic Shipyards will most likely launch using a floating drydock, my guess would be from Vancouver Shipyards. PS sorry about my spelling mistake; the Hern is actually Tern.

 

[seadragon]

I am in 2nd term in the METTP at Marine Institute, CFNES St. John's.  A few of us are interested in becoming submariners and, due to crew requirements, we might have a chance of going directly to subs when we graduate in 2010.  Any opinions on this?  Any helpful hints for us aspiring submariners?  Are there plans for the subs to do long deplyments to Europe/Asia like the frigates do?

 

[NavyShooter]

Learn well, study hard, and be ready to spend a LOT of time learning how to be a submariner.  They are a special breed. 

Also, learn not to shower.

Note, I am not a submariner, but have many that I count as friends.  (Until they start counting me as a "Skimmer puke target".)

NS

 

[seadragon]

Thanks for the info Navyshooter.  Are there any current submariners that can enlighten me with more info?

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

I'm not current but here's my $0.02:

The technician trades normally have a LOT of responsibility at a junior rank on boats, because there are very few people in their trades on the boats. On top of that, they spend most of their time qualifying, rather than actually working in their trades.

That means they have to be at their absolute best when they hit the boat, and there's no room for the normal tech learning curve when getting out of school. The only guys I saw going straight from NCSTTP or METTP to the boat ended up getting a rep for being screw-ups when they really weren't any worse than everybody else was when they first hit the fleet.

My advice is to go to a ship for a couple of years and then go boats, if thats possible. Not only will you do better once you get to the boats, you'll know how bad the other half is and how lucky you are. 

 

[seadragon]

Thank you very much for the info, that seemed to be the best path to me.  One of my classmates wants to go directly in.  We are both learing what we can before we leave the school and join the fleet.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Excerpt from major round-up piece at Defense Industry Daily:

Sub Fleet Creating Canadian Controversies
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/sub-support-contract-creating-canadian-controversy-04563/

...
Updates and Related News

Feb 23/11: A CBC News access to information request reveals that Canada spent C$ 45 million to repairs to HMCS Windsor alone in 2010, almost 3x the C$ 17 million budget.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/02/23/ns-submarine-windsor-refit-cost.html
The refit which started in 2007 and was supposed to be done in 2009, bow looks like 2013 at the earliest. As any urban sweller knows, that’s a real challenge. The documents also show that HMCS Victoria has only been at sea for 100 days since its 2000 delivery. CBC adds that:

“It appears that every system on the British-built submarine has major problems, according to the documents, including bad welds in the hull, broken torpedo tubes, a faulty rudder and tiles on the side of the sub that continually fall off…. Because [HMCS Windsor] has been in drydock in Halifax for so long, it has become a bird sanctuary. The navy spent thousands of dollars just trying to keep the pigeons from roosting in the vessel.”

Dec 23/10: Canada’s DND confirms to Post Media that HMCS Victoria’s delivery date following its C$ 195 million refit in Esquimalt, BC has been delayed again, to mid-2011:

“According to the Defence Department, the Victoria is the first of the submarines of its class to undergo such a retrofit and that parts, infrastructure and technical expertise initially were lacking…. The valuable lessons learned from HMCS Victoria have proven useful and are being applied to other vessels in the class.”

That would put the submarine in dry dock for about 6 years, and make its re-entry into service about 2 years late. Montreal Gazette...
http://www.canada.com/news/More+delays+HMCS+Victoria+retrofit/4021222/story.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Dive certs on those boats should expire over the next 10 years as well.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Dive certs on those boats should expire over the next 10 years as well.

Well, that's interesting!

I wonder if the Bozos (sorry, I mean "the powers that be") in Ottawa understand:

1) What losing your dive cert means for submarines (you can't "extend" it through a life-extension program forever - like they do surface ships);
2) The amount of time required to build a new submarine; and,
3) the logical connection that should exist between these two facts.

If so, we are almost already late.