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Soldier Operational Clothing and Equipment Modernization

KevinB

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Your point is understood but my counter is that "muscle memory" doesn't just extend to swapping mags. Anyone that has gone through a door too many times and found exactly the same scenario before them, and has been conditioned to react the same way, will twitch exactly the same way the next time they go through a door.

They will twitch to solution A, and then consider alternatives B and C that they have encountered before. Meanwhile Plan Zulu might be called for. But they have already committed to A, B or C.
Maybe once or twice - but historically more experienced high trained troops can switch gears faster.
Dev had a house dropped on a team - they changed SOP's that night, and have probably the most advanced program on the planet now.

Part of the issue is to ensure you just don't have hammers in your toolbox - or everything then looks like a nail...
 

lenaitch

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I think it is more than one can either incorrectly attempt to apply previous experience that either isn't relevant or is OBE.
Some folks can adapt better on the fly and relate training and experiences better than others - regardless of trade



Armor ;)
Honestly I have next to no recent experience with CAF Armor or Arty personnel -- I can tell you E Bty (Para) back in the day was a fairly proficient in the basic Infantry skills - local defense task/skills in W Bty (with the M109) where significantly higher than US Arty in the 2000-2014 time frame -- Squad/Team/Individual level fire and movement was pretty much a unknown thing to most - and the NCO and O levels had virtually no understanding of anything to do with dismounted fighting, or as a former member here (BigRed) can attest that the NCO corps was also completely incompetent in doing what one would expect of a NCO corps - like having ammunition for troops to move back through a red zone after a range...
These major unit (even trade) level deficiencies where one of the goals the now disbanded Asymetrical Warfare Group was working on fixing - both with Mobile Training Teams when deployed - at units home stations - or at the AWG sites (Ft Meade and AP Hill)



The Aussie SASR have a board outside one of their ranges reminding people that 1) Perfect Practice makes Perfect 2) 10,000 reps are required to commit something to unconscious memory.

It's an interpretation of Malcolm Galdwell's '10,000 hour rule' required to achieve mastery in something. According to the Internet, a lot of researchers have debunked it.

 

KevinB

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It's an interpretation of Malcolm Galdwell's '10,000 hour rule' required to achieve mastery in something. According to the Internet, a lot of researchers have debunked it.

Yet virtually all Tier 1 entities worldwide (that study human performance more than an Olympic Athlete) all have bought into...
Agreed on good teaching - hence it is not practice makes perfect - but perfect practice makes perfect.
 

Kirkhill

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It's an interpretation of Malcolm Galdwell's '10,000 hour rule' required to achieve mastery in something. According to the Internet, a lot of researchers have debunked it.


I suggest there is a significant difference between 10,000 hours of instruction and 10,000 repetitions. I believe the Madrassas to a great job using the 10,000 repetition technique.
 

MJP

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Yet virtually all Tier 1 entities worldwide (that study human performance more than an Olympic Athlete) all have bought into...
Agreed on good teaching - hence it is not practice makes perfect - but perfect practice makes perfect.
Yea they all bought in Grossman's malarkey too, doesn't mean it is actually true or rather good science:)
 

Kirkhill

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Yet virtually all Tier 1 entities worldwide (that study human performance more than an Olympic Athlete) all have bought into...
Agreed on good teaching - hence it is not practice makes perfect - but perfect practice makes perfect.

Kevin,

If I need somebody to run 100m in 9.58 then I will hire Usain Bolt. If I need a door kicked in efficiently then I know what my options are. There are good people that have mastered their trades.

But I am not going to hire a cooper to brew my beer.

On the other hand, given enough time I am sure that Usain, DevGru and the Cooper could all produce passable beers that we could enjoy together.

The key element is indeed time.

But not so much time spent in practice as time spent in appreciation, in estimation. And, I suggest, in the military world that time is bought through a combination of space, and situational awareness. That ultimately is why I lean so heavily towards small elements, ISR and long range precision fires.
 

KevinB

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Kevin,

If I need somebody to run 100m in 9.58 then I will hire Usain Bolt. If I need a door kicked in efficiently then I know what my options are. There are good people that have mastered their trades.

But I am not going to hire a cooper to brew my beer.

On the other hand, given enough time I am sure that Usain, DevGru and the Cooper could all produce passable beers that we could enjoy together.

The key element is indeed time.

But not so much time spent in practice as time spent in appreciation, in estimation. And, I suggest, in the military world that time is bought through a combination of space, and situational awareness. That ultimately is why I lean so heavily towards small elements, ISR and long range precision fires.
I'm a huge fan of small elements - up until you end up needing a larger one.
A friend of mine from Canada was in a small detachment - with every ISR available - and then stuff went sideways - their Det went Winchester - and the (then) fledgling Aussie SOAR extracted them from the compound they where trapped in.

There is a time and a place for small special elements - and a time for a combined arms maneuver force in strength.

I don't want to drain this thread further than I already have.
 

Kirkhill

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I'm a huge fan of small elements - up until you end up needing a larger one.
A friend of mine from Canada was in a small detachment - with every ISR available - and then stuff went sideways - their Det went Winchester - and the (then) fledgling Aussie SOAR extracted them from the compound they where trapped in.

There is a time and a place for small special elements - and a time for a combined arms maneuver force in strength.

I don't want to drain this thread further than I already have.


Small elements

1645559307331.png

Large structures


As I have said elsewhere

Time, Money, Effort and Persistence

And as somebody else has said

Practice.
 

KevinB

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Small elements

View attachment 68914

Large structures


As I have said elsewhere

Time, Money, Effort and Persistence

And as somebody else has said

Practice.
I don't disagree with some of it.
But your 4-6 man Bricks require a greater level of skill experience training etc (read lots of $)
Because you need to be able to deal with much more in a small team - medic, comms, fire support, as well as the close fight.
 

KevinB

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I agree.

The buddy system will never work.

View attachment 68915

My point is simply that if one is going to deploy smaller teams - one needs to train and equip then in such a manner as they are effective.

Do I think that Light Infantry can be effective GIB's - yes at the end of the day LI is a GIB in some manner - be it helicopter, or aircraft, APC or boat/ship - do I think it is a waste of a trained LI formation to be GIB's in the back of an IFV - yes in most cases.

I'm getting off task again to the thread at hand but.

I see the CA as needing 1 Heavy Force - Tanks, IFV, SPA etc. 1-2 Med Forces 1-2 Light Forces
I do not see them all the same, as I think there is an advantage to specializing.

Could you use the Brick as a building block - yes - but then not all your Lego's will be the same - they may have the same shape - but some will be made of paper, and others stone - which is fine as long as you remember not to build the stone wall with some paper blocks...
 

Kirkhill

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Or you can understand the capabilities of paper and not try do things the way you would with stone.


I can find you an engineer that would cheerfully build you a paper wall that would deflect cannon balls as well as stone, and be easier to repair.
 

markppcli

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Your point is understood but my counter is that "muscle memory" doesn't just extend to swapping mags. Anyone that has gone through a door too many times and found exactly the same scenario before them, and has been conditioned to react the same way, will twitch exactly the same way the next time they go through a door.

They will twitch to solution A, and then consider alternatives B and C that they have encountered before. Meanwhile Plan Zulu might be called for. But they have already committed to A, B or C.
That reeks of “over training effecting the. Atrial fighting spirit.” My guys who have done more training are more able to improvise because they have see AB and C so D or E is less of a surprise.
 

OceanBonfire

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AzxTxv2.jpg



 

Eye In The Sky

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While this is 'nice to see'...isn't one of the Cdn troops wearing the "new" uniform and a CADPAT TW bush hat?

I really dislike when we do that. Get it all...issue it all. The "some of this/some of that" makes it obvious we underbudget and suck at procurement.
 

Eye In The Sky

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But we do underbudget. And we do suck at procurement. Why lie about it, or try to hide it? Shouldn’t we be transparent, within the limits of security?

I don't think we've "tried to hide it", specifically with uniforms, for decades. We did the same thing with CADPAT; some people in OD Cbts, with CADPAT jackets, 1970s toques...people in CADPAT field dress except the Robin Hook bush hat...

We do the "mix and match" well; I just wish we wouldn't....especially on an exchange. Mom and dad should make sure our socks match when we go to a sleepover...
 

KevinB

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The Bush Hat looks surprising like my early original trial pattern one (with the brown) and not the stupid large brim.
But that was 2000-2001 era and he's not that old.
 
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